############# # The following is 'midimerge' from the midi-archive. ############# This is a collection of MMML messages concerning MIDI merging. It's sorted chronologically, mostly. =============================================================== >From uucp Mon Feb 13 14:15 EST 1989 >From rft Mon Feb 13 13:20 EST 1989 remote from cblpe To: All MMMLers Subject: Merging MIDI sources together I need to merge two (possibly more) MIDI out signals together. Any recommendations? Rick Taylor cblpe!rft CB 1D343 614-860-2006 >From uucp Mon Feb 13 16:08 EST 1989 >From wbf Mon Feb 13 16:04 EST 1989 remote from cbema Subject: MIDI Merging Rick, Come see my Digital Music MX-8 to see if it is what you want. If you don't really need merging, a swith box is all you need. These are less expensive to buy and you can build your own if you like. Bill Fox cbema!wbf >From tjt Mon Feb 13 23:32 EST 1989 To: midi Subject: Re: MIDI Merging >From mosc Mon Feb 13 22:41:17 1989 remote from aloft From: aloft!mosc (52232-H. S. Moscovitz) I have read some comments on midi-mergers on the MMML. I will share my experience on the subject. Understanding these devices is fairly simple, not quite as tricky as microcode programming a floating point DSP chip. I have the J. L. Cooper MSB Plus midi-merge/router/filter/transposer box. It provides 8X8 midi routing and switching, and id can merge any two inputs to any of 8 outputs. It is very programmable and stores about 64 settings (I use only two). It has two independent midi processors that can do channel bumping, transposition and midi filtering. You can filter note, pitch bend, controller, after-touch, program changes, real time, and/or systems exclusive/systems common commands. The MSB is hard to beat in the user friendliness department. This unit is sure to please any macho-hard-core-techno electronic musician. You won't find any whimpy graphical liquid crystal displays on this device. Here's the scoop on one of the refreshing highlights of the user interface directly from the owners manual: "The program memory and display of the MSB Plus use a modified Octal from, rather than the normal decimal due to the 8 select push buttons. That is, instead of showing (and selecting) patches 1 thru 64, you will use 11 thru 88. In this system, for example, patch 21 is directly after 18." After careful study, I have determined that the modified octal system is very much like the conventional octal system, except that the 0 digit is not used, but 8 is. Pretty nice huh? But wait, there's more: For the sake of consistency, the MSB Plus uses the modified hexidecimal number system for representing midi channels. I am pleased to see the manufacturer boldly offer a novel new number system where 'F'==15, and '0'==16. An unexpected feature is the red panic button. It is a momentary on/off switch that generates a very complex sequence of midi events to intended to turn off all stuck-on notes in your midi network. It starts off with a simple midi "all notes off" message and then sends a complex sequence of midi events on all channels for five seconds, or until you release the button. This sequence is a paranoid midi musician's dream. When I first got the unit home I was curious, so I began setting up various pathological midi hook-ups to see if I could find the panic button's limitations. The MSB's flexible routing capabilities made it easy to set up variations on infinite midi loops, even with automatic transposition! The waves of sound generated by my synthesizers were electrifying. (I'm sure Jimi Hendrix would have switched to keyboards had he heard this.) The MSB has shown me there are vast new musical horizons. The panic button does its assigned job flawlessly. Howard Moscovitz att!aloft!mosc >From uucp Tue Feb 14 12:12 EST 1989 >From gjm Tue Feb 14 11:50:10 EST 1989 remote from coma Subject: Re: JLCooper MSB+ I can second Howard Moscovitz's recommendation of the MSB+. I have found it essential for coordinating many synths and dealing with various pieces of software (different provisions for echo, etc.). If you have two devices that are the same (e.g. TX81Z's, or TF1 modules in a TX rack), it is useful for configuring them separately (e.g. separating them out of lock-step with the same system channel to different system channels). I regularly use the midi merge capability, but have experienced data loss under heavy load (sequencer + keyboard), so be forwarned. The KX88 merges its input to its output port -- this is the most common merging that I want (sequencer + KX88 keyboard) and it seems to be able to handle the merge with fewer problems than the MSB+. Both can run into problems with large data dumps (an obvious midi merge problem). How well do some of the other midi switch/merge boxes behave under heavy load or sysex dump conditions? -Gary P.S. Sorry about the duplicate article (Research mailer vs. BSD Mail confusion). >From tjt Tue Feb 14 12:38 EST 1989 To: midi Subject: Re: JLCooper MSB+ > >From gjm Tue Feb 14 11:50:10 EST 1989 remote from coma > I regularly use the midi merge capability, but have experienced data loss > under heavy load (sequencer + keyboard), so be forwarned. The KX88 merges > its input to its output port .... and it seems to be able to handle the merge > with fewer problems than the MSB+. Both can run into problems with large > data dumps (an obvious midi merge problem). The reaction of the KX88 to large data dumps is pretty amusing - on mine, at least, it just goes completely bananas, LED's blinking wildly, and refuses to do anything unless you power cycle it. Does the MSB+ react in the same catastrophic way? ...Tim... >From tjt Tue Feb 14 13:30 EST 1989 To: midi Subject: re: COoPer OctAl pAnic >From mosc Tue Feb 14 13:13:54 1989 remote from aloft From: aloft!mosc (52232-H. S. Moscovitz) In response to Andy McDonough: do they charge money for this? are they available? Yes one can purchase a Cooper MPU Plus for somewhere around $350 (if my memory serves me well, which it usually doen't). It really is a very nice box that makes it much easier to manage a midi network with several possible controllers and many sound generators. It is really overkill if all that is needed is a midi merger. I have been told that nobody makes a merger that can mix more than two midi inputs. Does anybody know for sure the correctness of this statement? >From uucp Mon Feb 20 16:19 EST 1989 >From gjm Mon Feb 20 16:14:21 EST 1989 remote from coma Subject: RE: JLCooper MSB+ I haven't observed catastrophic failure with the MSB+ due to overloading the merge function. I have observed lost data, mostly audible by loosing a Note Off (On 0) message which results in stuck notes (time to hit the panic button). -Gary >From uucp Thu Jan 4 13:42 EST 1990 >From nsw Thu Jan 4 13:41:50 1990 remote from cord Received: by cord.garage.att.com; 9001041841 Date: 4 Jan 90 13:41:50 EST (Thu) From: Neil Weinstock Subject: Re: MIDI Thru Message-Id: <9001041841.AA12828@cord.garage.att.com> To: twitch!midi A MIDI thru is essentially just a straight through connection from the MIDI input. No processor or UART gets involved; it's just a very simple bit of wiring. That's why so-called "MIDI Thru boxes" are very cheap. A more appropriate place for a device's internally generated MIDI data to be merged with the input data would be at a MIDI output, though this function is seldom seen on synthesizers. It is found on some MIDI master controllers, which may (as in the Roland A-80) perform some massaging of the input data before merging it into the output. If you want this function but your synth doesn't support it, you could get a similar effect by placing the synth's MIDI out and thru into a merger (e.g., Pocket Merge). ________________ __________________ _________________________ //// \\// \\// \\\\ \\\\ Neil Weinstock //\\ att!cord!nsw or //\\ "Your hair is so... //// //// AT&T Bell Labs \\// nsw@cord.att.com \\// lustre-laden." - Moss \\\\ \\\\________________//\\__________________//\\_________________________//// >From tjt Fri Aug 4 16:03 EDT 1989 To: midi Subject: re: Midi Masters and Slaves >From arpa!STONY-BROOK.SCRC.Symbolics.COM!ESC Fri Aug 4 13:15 EDT 1989 remote from att From: Eric S. Crawley Date: Thu, 3 Aug 89 19:35 EDT From: twitch!midi-request@att.att.com #### Forwarded from the Mostly MIDI mailing list (twitch!midi) #### >From uucp Thu Aug 3 18:22 EDT 1989 >From srm Thu Aug 3 17:21 CDT 1989 remote from ihlpm To: twitch!midi Subject: re: Midi Masters and Slaves If you want to get fancier, there are a variety of MIDI patch bay/merger/processor boxes which cost much more. I haven't really investigated these much further since all I really want is a cheap switcher. Anyone care to comment here? Sam Mullins Sure, I'll comment: I have been using a JLCooper MSB+ switcher as the center of my MIDI network for almost a year and can't live without. I initally bought a DMC MX-8 switcher/processor and actually liked it better than the MSB+ but I needed the 2 extra inputs provided by the MSB+. Both units allow switching (MSB+ is 8x8 and the MX-8 is 6x8) and both have 2 "processors" that allow you to process data from 2 separate inputs by filtering out unwanted data (SYSEX, realtime, program change, aftertouch, etc.) and by changing the channel of the data. The MX-8 goes much further by allowing you to do velocity cross-switching, delay and MIDI echo, and keyboard range mapping. The MX-8 was also cheaper at the time. Both units allow the outputs of the "processors" to be merged at any output. Both units are programmable and allow you to select an input and channel to send program change commands that change the program of the switcher. Each program can send a number of program change commands to every output on various channels. So, you could have the switcher set up every slave when you select a program on the switcher. I have my MSB+ set up so it responds to program change commands from my master controller keyboard. I just select different programs on the controller to select different configurations. I leave the MIDI transmit channel of both of my controllers set to channel 1 and use the MSB+ to change the channel for a particular slave. That way, I don't have to worry about changing things on my controllers. A switcher is a must if you use a computer as a sequencer and patch editor. You would have to recable every time you wanted 2 way communication between a slave module and the computer if the slave doesn't have a keyboard on it. I could go on, but I think this is a good summary. If anyone wants more details, I would be happy to provide them. >From uucp Mon Aug 7 09:06 EDT 1989 >From gfd Mon Aug 7 09:00:38 1989 remote from mtdca FROM: g.f.demarest TO: twitch!midi DATE: 7 Aug 1989 9:00 EDT SUBJECT: switcher > I have been using a JLCooper MSB+ switcher as the center of my MIDI > network for almost a year and can't live without. I initally bought a > DMC MX-8 switcher/processor and actually liked it better than the MSB+ > but I needed the 2 extra inputs provided by the MSB+. Any prices on these boxes? Is that 6 in 8 out? Thrus? Merging? >From uucp Thu Mar 1 23:02 EST 1990 >From upheisei!rick Fri Mar 2 12:04 JST 1990 remote from attunix To: upheisei!attunix!twitch!midi Date: 1990 Feb 24 Thu 1.27.82 EMT Subject: midi boxes One quick item: I bought a "midi through" box and quickly discovered to my chagrin that it can't merge MIDI channels. I recommend against buying any box that can't merge channels. When I bought it, I wasn't thinking about that eventuality, but I turned out to really need it; now I flip knobs all the time because I don't have it. Rick >From uucp Mon Aug 7 17:16 EDT 1989 >From STONY-BROOK.SCRC.Symbolics.COM!ESC Mon Aug 7 15:21 EDT 1989 remote from arpa Received: from DJINN.SCRC.Symbolics.COM by STONY-BROOK.SCRC.Symbolics.COM via CHAOS with CHAOS-MAIL id 637653; 7 Aug 89 15:31:47 EDT Date: Mon, 7 Aug 89 15:21 EDT From: Eric S. Crawley To: midi@twitch.att.com In-Reply-To: The message of 7 Aug 89 10:14 EDT from twitch!midi-request@att.att.com Message-ID: <19890807192135.0.ESC@DJINN.SCRC.Symbolics.COM> Date: Mon, 7 Aug 89 10:14 EDT From: twitch!midi-request@att.att.com #### Forwarded from the Mostly MIDI mailing list (twitch!midi) #### >From uucp Mon Aug 7 09:06 EDT 1989 >From gfd Mon Aug 7 09:00:38 1989 remote from mtdca FROM: g.f.demarest TO: twitch!midi DATE: 7 Aug 1989 9:00 EDT SUBJECT: switcher > I have been using a JLCooper MSB+ switcher as the center of my MIDI > network for almost a year and can't live without. I initally bought a > DMC MX-8 switcher/processor and actually liked it better than the MSB+ > but I needed the 2 extra inputs provided by the MSB+. Any prices on these boxes? Is that 6 in 8 out? Thrus? Merging? As I recall, they were around $350+ or so but my memory isn't too great. The MSB+ was closer to $400. The MX-8 is 6 in, 8 out and the MSB+ is 8 in, 8 out. There are no MIDI-Thrus and if you think about it for a minute, you realize that a thru on a switcher is not a good idea. Both units will merge any two inputs to any number of outputs (that is one of the most important features!). >From uucp Sun Jun 17 20:00 EDT 1990 >From westmark!s4mjs!mjs Sun Jun 17 18:33:24 1990 remote from att Received: by westmark.UUCP (smail2.5) id AA17184; 17 Jun 90 18:33:24 EDT (Sun) Received: by s4mjs.uucp (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.16.1 #16.20) id ; Sun, 17 Jun 90 18:11 EDT Message-Id: Date: Sun, 17 Jun 90 18:11 EDT From: mjs@s4mjs.uucp (M. J. Shannon) To: midi@twitch.att.com Subject: Confusion? Here's my current setup: (Computer) (drums) (tones) +---------+ +------------+ +------------+ | out|--------->|in HR-16 out|--------->|in FB-01 out|--\ | MQX-16S | +------------+ +------------+ | | in|<-------------------------------------------------/ +---------+ No matter which order I put the modules in, I lose the capability of getting system exclusive responses from *one* of them! Surely I'm not the first person in the world to come to this conclusion, so I guess my question is: what piece of hardware do I need to get *both* sets of system exclusive responses (and more, if/as/when I manage to expand my setup)? I assume my setup must change to: +---------+ +------------+ +------------+ | out|--------->|in HR-16 out|--------->|in FB-01 out|--\ | MQX-16S | +------------+ +------------+ | | | |thru | | in|<---------------------------\ inV | +---------+ \ +------------+ | \---|out MAGIC in|<-/ +------------+ or (I guess this is preferable): +---------+ +-------------+ +------------+ | out|--------->|in FB-01 thru|-------->|in HR-16 out|--\ | MQX-16S | +-------------+ +------------+ | | | |out | | in|<----\ inV | +---------+ \ +------------+ | \---|out MAGIC in|<------------------------/ +------------+ Now, given that such a MAGIC box exists, it would probably come in two different flavors: merger (always merges its inputs) and switch (allows reception of a single input). For each flavor, how many inputs could I get merged/switched, and what's it gonna cost me? Do any of you have such a beasty that you would recommend (for or against!)? For the record, it is *not* critical the way I currently use the setup, but it will be in the forseeable future. Thanks for any advice, Marty Shannon P.S. Them pictures are a pain to draw! >From uucp Mon Jun 18 00:40 EDT 1990 >From upheisei!rick Mon Jun 18 11:24 JST 1990 remote from attunix To: upheisei!attunix!twitch!midi Date: 1990 Mai 24 Thu 1.00.56 EMT (90/06/18 Mon 02:24 GMT) Subject: merge? Marty Shannon: While I don't have a merge box myself, it sounds like you need one. I don't know of any that can merge > 2 inputs, but then I haven't looked very closely. I do continue to kick myself for NOT getting a merge box (I got a switch box). Drawing diagrams. Sounds like you need a more powerful text editor. I happen to know that the AT&T Toolchest has a version of EMACS that has an over-write mode. Makes it much easier to draw such pictures. There are probably other editors out there as well that can do it... Rick >From uucp Mon Jun 18 12:14 EDT 1990 >From wbf Mon Jun 18 11:13 EDT 1990 remote from cbema Subject: Marty Shannon's Confusion /-----------\ /---------\ /---------\ /---------------\ | SEQUENCER | | DRUMS | | TONES | | YOUR NEXT TOY | | in out | | in out | | in out | | in out | \-----------/ \---------/ \---------/ \---------------/ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | /--------------------------------------------------------------\ | out in out in out in out in | | ONE HECKUVA MAGIC BOX! | \--------------------------------------------------------------/ The above figure is what it sounds like you need, Marty. The magic box could be a Digital Music MX-8 or a KMX MIDI Central (15 in/16 out) or some equivalent box. I'm not familiar with the KMX, but the add says it does merging. From the picture, it looks like only inputs 1 and 2 can be merged but that may be misleading. Better check that out for yourself. I have the Digital Music and it includes two "processors." Each processor can do many types of operations like merging, filtering, keyboard splitting, re-channelizing, etc., and accepts data from any two inputs. It is, however, only 6 in by 8 out... or is that 8 x 6? I forget which way it is. Note that no THRUs are shown in the diagram above. You can add things like and Alesis Midiverb II so that it gets program change commands sent to its input from the thru output of the drum machine, for example. Since this reverb doesn't do bulk dumps (it's not programmable) you won't have to waste an input/output pair on the switch/merger/magic box. Bill Fox cbema!wbf >From tjt Mon Jun 18 11:52 EST 1990 To: midi Subject: Re: Confusion? > > THRU boxes are also a potential solution. They give you > Do they exist with multiple INs and a single OUT? You definitely need at least a merger. Simple ones can be gotten for under a hundred dollars (I have a J.B.Cooper one that looks ugly but has various dip switches for filtering things separately on each of the 2 input channels). How much are those tiny Anadek (sp?) ones? I've never seen a merger with more than 2 inputs, but I assume you could gang them together - anyone have a system where they need to do that? ...Tim... >From uucp Mon Jun 18 15:48 EDT 1990 >From nsw Mon Jun 18 14:47:52 1990 remote from edsel Received: by edsel.garage.att.com; 9006181847 Date: 18 Jun 90 14:47:52 EDT (Mon) From: Neil Weinstock Subject: Mergers and Acquisitions (of mergers) Message-Id: <9006181847.AA13558@edsel.garage.att.com> To: twitch!midi Tim asked if anyone has a system where they need to have ganged mergers, or many lines merged into one. Well, consider a system (similar to mine, not so coincidentally ;-) where the computer is used for sequencing and sys-ex storage, and there are several slave instruments plus a keyboard or two. *Everything* needs to have input to the computer (for librarian purposes), and this implies a many->one merger. I think this is similar to the configuration that started this thread. The obvious alternative is to take some MIDI switcher (a la MX8), and use different patches to allow various instruments to send data to the computer. That's not too bad, as it only requires some button pushing (infinitely better than cable-jockeying.) However, it sure would be nice to have all the outs plugged into a mega-merger, with the merger output going to the computer. Even though a single MIDI line couldn't handle 4 instruments doing sys-ex dumps at the same time, I doubt that would ever happen. Typically, you'd be doing serious sys-ex work with only one box at a time, or at least you could restrict yourself to that in order to avoid blowing away the merger. - Neil --==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==-- Neil Weinstock @ AT&T Bell Labs // What was sliced bread att!edsel!nsw or nsw@garage.att.com \X/ the greatest thing since? >From uucp Mon Jun 18 18:06 EDT 1990 >From rft Mon Jun 18 16:01 EDT 1990 remote from cblpe To: midi Subject: merge boxes I have an Anatek merge box that merges two inputs to a single output. The list price is $100, but the discount price is about $90. It does not require batteries (it steals power from the MIDI circuit) and it is very small, about 3x2x2. I use it to merge the output of two keyboards. The merged output is used as input to my sequencer. I have not noticed any lost data. I am happy with the Anatek merge box and it seems to suit my needs just fine. I am sure there is an upper limit on the box's capacity to merge two simultaneous data streams, but I am not sure what the limit is. There may be problems if you are trying to dump the memory of one synth while trying the play notes/dump data on/from another synth. You may lose data. If you just want to do dumps from one synth at a time, everything should be fine. You can gang the Anatek mergers if more merging capability is needed. I seem to recall they recommend using a maximum of 4 before plugging into some type of MIDI gear. This would allow you to merge 5 units into one MIDI data stream. Also I seem to recall that Anatek uses some sort of data compression when the two MIDI data streams are merged. I think the Anatek merge box outputs a data stream that uses running status. This may cause problems for some applications. I will try to check on this sometime this week. Running status is where the only the first message of a data stream targeted to a given channel includes the status byte. The status byte includes the message type, e.g. note on , note off, and the channel number. The status byte is then sent only when the message type changes. Anatek also has a new "studio" version that can merge 7 or 8 inputs (I don't remember which, I have a spec sheet at home and I can post more info if anyone wants more details) and also includes some sort of patch bay facilities. I don't know the price. Rick Taylor >From tjt Mon Jun 18 16:32 EST 1990 To: midi Subject: re: Mergers and Acquisitions (of mergers) > *Everything* needs to have input to the computer (for librarian purposes), > and this implies a many->one merger. .... > The obvious alternative is to take some MIDI switcher (a la MX8), and use > different patches to allow various instruments to send data to the computer. > That's not too bad, as it only requires some button pushing (infinitely better > than cable-jockeying.) > However, it sure would be nice to have all the outs plugged into a > mega-merger, with the merger output going to the computer. I agree. Makes me wonder why we haven't seen such things. I guess one reason might be that if you have 2 identical synths (not unusual - I have a small setup, but still have 2 TX81Zs), and you send a sysex message that requests a dump to be sent to the computer, how do you identify which one you want to send the dump? Guess we need synth id's something like SCSI id's. ...Tim... >From uucp Mon Jun 18 17:29 EDT 1990 >From gjm Mon Jun 18 16:29:17 EDT 1990 remote from coma To: twitch!midi Subject: Re: Mergers and Acquisitions (of mergers) I second what Neil said about using different patches on your MIDI switch box. The JLCooper MSB+ accepts program change commands to switch patches, I'm sure that the other boxes do to. So your program should be able to switch patches to talk to appropriate devices as needed, one (or two at most) at a time. I haven't tried any switch box patch changes which do anything that is time critical, so if you're interested in sw.box patch changes during a performance, you'll probably have to construct your own tests and try out a box before you buy it. -Gary >From uucp Mon Jun 18 19:51 EDT 1990 >From greg Mon Jun 18 17:48 CDT 1990 remote from iwtgp From: iwtgp!greg (Gregory A Youngdahl +1 708 979 0013) To: twitch!midi Subject: Midi Switcher Construction Hi all, Just thought I'd add my 2 cents worth and remind everyone about the Electronic Musician article in the Aug. '87 issue called "MIDI Switcher Primer". Its not a merger, and it sounds like that is what is required to satisfy the need that started this thread, but if a switch would suffice, and build-it-yourself intrigues you, this article describes how to do it. It is an electronic switch, complete with opto-isolation per the MIDI standard. It also wouldn't be too hard to wire up a MIDI version of the RS-232 or Parallel 'T' switches that select various serial or parallel devices to connect to computer ports. I'm sure parts for a 'T' switch solution would be available at the local Parts-R-Us (Radio Shack) for much less than the $100 merger. I can supply copies of the Electronic Musician article (reprinted without permission) if anyone is interested. Greg Youngdahl AT&T Bell Laboratories Naperville, IL att!iwtgp!greg >From uucp Mon Jun 18 22:52 EDT 1990 >From druwy!mab Mon Jun 18 19:44:46 1990 remote from mtuxo FROM: druwy!mab TO: mtuxo!twitch!midi DATE: 18 Jun 1990 19:44 MDT SUBJECT: re: Mergers and Acquisitions (of mergers) > reason might be that if you have 2 identical synths (not unusual - I have > a small setup, but still have 2 TX81Zs), and you send a sysex message > that requests a dump to be sent to the computer, how do you identify > which one you want to send the dump? Guess we need synth id's something > like SCSI id's. ...Tim... Most of the synths I've played with include a system channel in their sysex messages. If you have two identical synths, you can set them to different system channels so that you can control them separately. I've seen this on several Kawai synths, FB-01, and CZ-1000. All of them with the possible exception of the CZ would remember their system channel when powered off, although that blasted K5 requires you to manually enable receipt of sysex messages after power-up. Same for FB-01. Maybe someday the designers will realize we want hands-off MIDI control of all of our toys. Alan >From uucp Tue Jun 19 10:10 EDT 1990 >From honet4!dob Tue Jun 19 09:02 EDT 1990 remote from att From: honet4!dob (Duane O Bowker +1 201 949 2607) To: att!twitch!midi Subject: Mergers, etc. Hi. Just wanted to add two cents to Neil's comments RE: MX8. That looks like the way to go for many inputs to PC in librarian situations. You CAN get by without any button pushes since the MX8 is itself switchable via MIDI program change commands, if you configure it to be. So you would have an MX8 set for librarian/editor A, another for librarian/editor B, another for playing MIDI guitar into synth module C, et cetera...then build into your librarian/editors appropriate program change commands to MX8 to switch among the MIDI configurations. Other cool trick that I use in my lab at work quite a bit: MX8 set-ups can include up to 8 program change commands sent to MIDI outputs of MX8. In other words, I can send one program change to the MX8 and that will configure essentially all the MIDI stuff in the lab. (The MX8 holds the "macro set-ups", if you will, for the laboratory). Duane Bowker att!honet4!dob >From tjt Tue Jun 19 09:43 EST 1990 To: midi Subject: Re: Mergers and Acquisitions (of mergers) >From mosc Tue Jun 19 08:16:09 1990 remote from aloft From: aloft!mosc (52842-H. S. Moscovitz) This is a comment on real time patch changes on the JLCooper MSB+. I have one of these devices and you can do this sometimes. It is not repeatable. The safest think is don't send midi information on your network for about 1 second after you told the MSB+ to change patches. Maybe they should have called this box the MSB-. Howard Moscovitz aloft!mosc >From uucp Tue Jun 19 14:40 EDT 1990 >From billb Tue Jun 19 13:39:42 1990 remote from mtunj Received: by mtunj.ATT.COM (smail2.6) id AA02897; 19 Jun 90 13:39:42 EDT (Tue) To: twitch!midi Subject: Re: Mergers and Acquisitions (of mergers) Message-Id: <9006191339.AA02897@mtunj.ATT.COM> Date: 19 Jun 90 13:39:42 EDT (Tue) From: billb@mtunj.ATT.COM (William Burnette) >> This is a comment on real time patch changes on the JLCooper MSB+. >> I have one of these devices and you can do this sometimes. It is >> not repeatable. The safest think is don't send midi information >> on your network for about 1 second after you told the MSB+ to >> change patches. Maybe they should have called this box the MSB-. >> Howard Moscovitz >> aloft!mosc >> There is a bug in the MSB+, probably in the implementation of running status. If a program change directed to the MSB+ is followed by sysex to anywhere, the MSB+ changes patches again, probably to some number found in the sysex data. I've found that a workaround is to follow the MSB+ patch change by a patch change or note off to some channel other than the MSB system channel. This seems to allow speedy MSB+ patch changes. I haven't used this method in a song sequence, only in a patch editor. Bill Burnette mtunj!billb >From uucp Wed Aug 9 11:26 EDT 1989 >From srm Wed Aug 9 10:25 CDT 1989 remote from ihlpm To: twitch!midi Subject: MIDI switcher revisited Hi Midi-mailers: Last week I had said that I had been looking for a cheap MIDI switcher for some time but had not found anything. My equipment consists of a Casio CZ-1 keyboard, a Roland MT-32, a Roland MKS-100 sampler and an Atari ST. Because I need to have 2-way communication between each synth and the computer, I need at least 4-in switcher/thru box. (I won't bore you with all of the possible configurations.) I thought that I had a lead on a realtively cheap Sonus box but that turned out to be only 2-in. So I was back to the cheapest alternative being a Kawai 4-in 8-out for about $125. Keep in mind that this buys you no memory or processing. I guess I don't understand why these things are so expensive. I had toyed with the idea of building my own but really didn't want to spend time to deal with all the active electronics necessary for the "thru" part of the box. The switching part is easy. Finally I arrived at a compromise. I realized that I don't have many delay problems by daisy chaining using the thru ports on my synths. The real problem I was trying to solve was that I need to have any of the synth's outputs feed the Atari's input. So, last night I just built a simple switcher. A project box, 4 5-pin DIN connectors, a double-pole quadruple-throw switch and some wire. About $9 at Radio Schlock. It took me about 2.5 hours and I'm really not too swift with a soldering iron. Here is my current setup (I tried to draw a picture but it was getting frustrating.) ST out ---> CZ-1 in CZ-1 thru ---> MT-32 in MT-32 thru ---> MKS-100 in CZ-1 out ---> switch input 1 MT-32 out ---> switch input 2 MKS-100 out ---> switch input 3 Switch output ---> ST in This allows me to run patch librarians for the Roland things which have a 2-way protocol for bulk transfers. If I decide that I can't live with the delays on the thru ports, then I will buy one of those MIDIMIX 6 thru devices for $35. I still have one switch position open if I want to add one more input. I realize that this is NOT practical for those of you with a much larger setup but for me it is great. It did exactly what I wanted and I saved at least $100. I don't really need merging or a thru capability.... yet :-) Sam Mullins >From att!messy.bellcore.com!mo Thu Aug 2 19:01:19 0700 1990 Received: by att.att.com; Thu Aug 2 19:03:29 1990 Received: by messy.bellcore.com (5.61/1.34) id AA08681; Thu, 2 Aug 90 19:01:19 -0700 Date: Thu, 2 Aug 90 19:01:19 -0700 From: mo@messy.bellcore.com (Michael O'Dell) Message-Id: <9008030201.AA08681@messy.bellcore.com> To: midi@twitch.att.com Subject: KMX Midi Central... I have two and love them. The KMX only costs a bit more than the others and you get a completely general cross-bar - one gozoutta and one gozinna per midithing back to the KMX. works like a dream.... oh yes - has a merger in 1 & 2, which I route to outputs 14 & 15 so I can run anything into the merger and through as well. quality stuff! -Mike >From att!media-lab.media.mit.edu!joe Thu Aug 9 16:41:45 EDT 1990 Received: by att.att.com; Thu Aug 9 16:40:58 1990 Received: by media-lab.media.mit.edu (5.57/DA1.0.2) id AA28488; Thu, 9 Aug 90 16:41:45 EDT Date: Thu, 9 Aug 90 16:41:45 EDT From: Joe Chung Message-Id: <9008092041.AA28488@media-lab.media.mit.edu> To: midi@twitch.att.com Subject: Opcode Studio 3 I think someone on this list asked about this box & I replied more or less in favor of it... I've changed my mind!! IT STINKS!!! I found that it has *massive* problems dealing with slightly flaky time code when used as a SMPTE to MIDI Time Code converter. I found that when a SMPTE dropout occurs, the box can end up mis-synched by over 15 frames, and remain mis-synched after good SMPTE is available. I called a not-very-well-informed tech person at Opcode who seemed to think that this behavior was part of the box's algorithm to jam through dropouts (known as non-continous jam synch). I explained to him *very* vocally that non-continous jam synch mode is something which you *have* to be able to turn off, and that in any case, you rarely want it for Midi Time Code conversion. You almost always want the real numbers even if there's a drop out or discontinuity, since good software can theoretically correct for errors. (note that this stuff has nothing to do with the "Jam" button on the front of the box... That seems to be for SMPTE copying only. One factor may have been that I was using 25fps SMPTE... They may have a bug at this rate which they haven't noticed so far. I'm going to try to talk to someone who had something to do with building the thing. (The guy I talked to said "25 FRAMES PER SECOND???" ... I said "yeah, that's the European standard." He said "no it isn't, it's 24!" Guess who was right.) Conclusion: Be extremely careful if you want to use this thing. It will probably behave OK as long as your SMPTE is flawless, but in my experience, you always get a few little glitches here and there. Winding up miss-synched is so incredibly annoying (and in my case unusable) that the dangers of this box should be carefully considered. On the other hand, I bought it from Sam Ash for $300, and it is currently the only rack-mount MIDI interface. It also has a built-in power supply & detachable cord instead of an external transformer & flimsy little cable. The only SMPTE->MTC converter that I would be caught dead with is the Adam Smith Zeta-3. It is a way-pro device & costs it (~$2500)... It is also one of the best two-transport tape synchronizers around. I also messed a bit with the Tascam MIDIizer. I dont' recomend it. We had a bunch of flakiness, also featuring random miss-synchs. It's a real pain in the butt to use as a straight SMPTE->MTC converter as well. By the way... Anyone mess with the Roland A-880 MIDI patch bay? I had huge problems with this thing when I used it's merge function. Ever notice that Roland equipment is very cavalier about sending random sustain/omni-mode/whatever offs? Why don't they ever let you defeat these "features?" >From keyhole!tjt Mon Dec 3 21:05 EST 1990 To: twitch!midi Subject: re: Midi Cabling > I just want to be able to: > 1) Drive the Korg from either the Keyboard or > the computer WITHOUT messing with cables. You need a 'merger', a box with 2 MIDI in's and 1 MIDI out. Anadek (sp?) makes a 'pocket merger' for < $100. The November 1990 Electronic Musician magazine has a do-it-yourself project for building a merger. > Can two 3-wire midi cables be "wire-or'ed"? In some situations it can work (if the 2 inputs are never simultaneously active), but occasionally still produces garbage. Anyone know if there are cases when it can actually damage the equipment? ...Tim... >From homxb!gabin Tue Dec 4 08:21 EST 1990 From: homxb!gabin (Jay Gabin +1 201 615 2830) To: twitch!midi Subject: re: Midi Cabling About using merger cables and such... I had the same problem of wanting to drive my set-up from my main keyboard or my computer without fooling with cables. I bought a MIDI patch-bay (I think it's J. L. Cooper and cost $80 mailorder). This has 3 inputs and 8 outputs. With switches on the front, you can make each of the outputs receive any of the 3 inputs. So, with a flick of these switches I can bring the computer into or out of the loop. Jay >From tjt Tue Dec 4 10:49 EST 1990 To: midi Subject: Re: Midi Cabling >From att!ifi.uib.no!gunnars Tue Dec 4 08:47:10 +0100 1990 From: gunnars@ifi.uib.no (Stud. Gunnar Sylthe) James Fischer says: => Can I do this? => => Keyboard M3R => Out ---------->----+-------> In => ^ => Computer | => Out ---------->----+ => => Computer M3R => In <------------------------ Out => => ... by soldering up a custom cable? Can two 3-wire midi => cables be "wire-or'ed"? => => Or must I buy a "Thru box" to do this? I think what you need is some kind of MIDI merge box. If I were you I'd look into the Anatek PocketMerge. I've never used it myself, and my sole "experience" with it is from reading the ads and a test in a Norwegian musician's mag, but it is supposedly a cheap, simple and reliable gadget which does one thing (merging to midi ins to one midi thru) and does it well. If you do try it out, why not post some "test results" to the list? I, for one, would be interested. --Gunnar Sylthe gunnars@ifi.uib.no >From mtuxo!druco!mab Tue Dec 4 10:15 MST 1990 To: mtuxo!twitch!midi Subject: Anatek PocketMerge I bought the Anatek PocketMerge a while back and it works as advertised. It has two INs that are merged into one OUT. I haven't stress-tested it, so I don't know how well it would handle lots of simultaneous data from both INs. My main use is to minimize cable swapping, so I rarely have both INs feeding data at the same time. Alan Bland >From mvgpl!mvcrg Tue Dec 4 15:50 EST 1990 From: mvgpl!mvcrg (Christopher R Gayle +1 508 960 2904) To: twitch!midi Subject: merge box Did read in recent MMML items somewhere that there is a build-it-yourself merge box? I'd like to know where to get the info to build one... has anyone out there done this? If so, how did it perform? How about switchboxes? Are they too complicated for reliable hand-wired projects? Any experience with these? - Topher Gayle x2904 mvcrg@mvgpl.att.com >From keyhole!tjt Tue Dec 4 19:11 EST 1990 To: twitch!midi Subject: do-it-yourself merge box > From: mvgpl!mvcrg (Christopher R Gayle +1 508 960 2904) > Did read in recent MMML items somewhere that there is a build-it-yourself > merge box? I'd like to know where to get the info to build one... has The November 1990 issue of Electronic Musician magazine had an article that showed how to build one. You can buy the PC board and programmed EPROMS from the author of the article, for $28 and $10, respectively. ...Tim... >From tjt Tue Dec 4 19:19 EST 1990 To: midi Subject: Re: merge box From: ihlpe!greg (Gregory A Youngdahl +1 708 979 0013) Topher, The build-it-yourself box you are referring to may be the MIDI switch box that I had mentioned a while back. This is an electronic switch circuit described in an article in the Aug. '87 issue of Electronic Musician. This circuit may be a solution to James' need to avoid physically switching cables, but it is not a merger. I have a copy of the article that I could send out if you are interested in it. I have not built this unit, but I don't see why it wouldn't do the job it is intended for. Of course the job could also be accomplished with a mechanical switch. -- Greg Youngdahl AT&T Bell Laboratories Naperville, IL att!ihlpe!greg >From tjt Wed Dec 5 11:48 EST 1990 To: midi Subject: Re: do-it-yourself merge box >From ihlpm!srm Wed Dec 5 09:37 CST 1990 >The November 1990 issue of Electronic Musician magazine had an article >that showed how to build one. You can buy the PC board and programmed >EPROMS from the author of the article, for $28 and $10, respectively. > > ...Tim... Before anyone goes to a lot of trouble....My brother just bought a Pocket Merge for $59 for DJ's in ChicagoLand. At that price it may not be worth building a kit for $38+. Of course, if you enjoy that kind of thing go ahead. Sam