From: ross-c@DCS.LEEDS.AC.UK (The Brown Bottle) Subject: Re: JV-80, K2000 MODULES!!??#! Date: 2 Apr 92 09:20:54 GMT I saw a JV-80 the other day. Ring modulation (or something very similar) is back on Roland Synthesisers(*). This means that although the JV-80 walks and talks like a performance orientated sample playback synth, there is some sonic potential in there that was not in the JD-800, D70, etc. Maybe I am biased because I have never owned a synth without either Ring Modulation or FM, but it seems that the trend towards bland Roland Keyboards has given at least one sign of reversing. The JV80 is not a sound canvas keyboard, that's the JV30. Also, I have been told that in the future it may be possible to add sample RAM. (XFM ----- FM??? Sounded like ring mod to me). One trend that has not reversed is Roland's sloppy attitude to manuals. JV80 owners, the bit of Japanese that they forgot to translate on page 81 means "Display Characters", or less literally, "Current Display" ( :-), I realise you can guess that anyway). But, the presets sounded like a boring synth. If I was a D70 owner, I don't think I would be encouraged to upgrade, they seemed like the same old sounds I've heard over and over again. Roland could take a lesson from Korg in this respect. I'm sure that back in the days of the Juno-106 when I was a snotty-nosed kid hanging around synth shops that Roland had the best presets......... Ross-c From: JROSSI@EAGLE.AAMRL.WPAFB.AF.MIL Subject: Re: JV-80 Date: 7 Apr 92 14:57:00 GMT Mike: First of all, r.m.s. is made up of some of the most opinionated people in the world when it comes to MIDI devices. Also, if you look at the general readership here, you find an assortment of part-time or hacker musicians who engage in various and sundry daytime acitivities which tend to be a few standard deviations away from what Roland might consider the musical norm. One look at the usenet tape biographies and you find that, to the degree that the usenet tape adequately samples the net-readership, people here are mostly computer scientists, engineers, scientists, or students (many grad) embarking on engineering or scientific careers. So, it probably is true that Roland, Korg or Yamaha really doesn't care what 'we' think because 'we' are not the people to whom their products are being marketed (obviuously). When you couple that with the fact that quite a few of the most vocal readers here are 'old timers' and continue to be enamoured with analog synths (sometimes to an abusive degree), I think that 'our' perspectives are very different from the actual MIDI 'mass market'. That the Korg M1 remains a brisk seller, certainly supports these suggestions. The problem with the JV-80 isn't that it is particularly bad. In fact it isn't as bad as a lot of people make it out to be, and after playing with one for the better part of an hour last Sat, probably has a lot hidden under its inetllectually stagnant user interface. The problem with the JV-80 is that it is just another 'me-too' unit which is rather limited, and when compared, say, to a D-70, makes you wondering in which direction Roland is really 'progressing'. To sum up my experience witht he board using the term .. boring .. would be somewhat of an overstatement. I know that the price point of $1900 list appears attractive when compared to the equally deficient Korg 01/W series, but again, there haven't been a lot of rave reviews of those boards posted to this newsgroup, either. If your price point is definately under $2000, you could look at a WaveStation Ex. It will give you an adequate 'sample player base', and it is still a very interesting instrument. It is very programmable and it can do some unique things which no other synth or sample palyer can do. It will still remain interestin, even after you have tired of the 3-layer banjo program on the JV-80. The key is that the WaveStation is a synthesizer. Of course, if you can up your top dollar figure about $500, you can afford a K2000. Of course, comparing the JV-80 to the K2000 is like comparing tricycles (which have 3 wheels so you can stay on them safely) with 1200 cc racing motorcycles which take a little time to master but go considerably faster and will keep you thrilled for a longer period of time. It just doesn't make financial sense to me to spend the amount of money a JV-80 will cost when for so few dollars more you can get something so much better. Of course, you can find used M1s for about $1000, and if a boring sample player is what you want, $1000 is cheaper than a JV-80. John From: nsw@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (Neil Weinstock) Subject: Re: JV-80 Date: 8 Apr 92 22:13:30 GMT In article <585.9204081304@orsun.dcs.leeds.ac.uk> ross-c@DCS.LEEDS.AC.UK (The Brown Bottle) writes: >>From: Neil Weinstock [ ... ] >>OK, I'll bite. In what way is the JV-80 limited compared to the D-70? I'm > >Main differences (in the synth engine, the JV-80 should walk all over the D70 > as far as ROM goes): >-DLM >+Ring Modulation. That's exactly what Roland told me. From that I might conclude that the advantages/disadvantages go as follows: JV-80 pluses: 1) more voices (28 vs. 24) 2) more multitimbral slots 3) more sliders 4) more master controller capability (8 zones, I think) 5) ROM expandability (up to 14 MB total, including card) 6) different effects routing (settable send levels for each drum in a kit, for instance) 7) Ring modulation more useful than DLM (speculation) 8) about $400 cheaper D-70 pluses: 1) 76 key keyboard 2) nicer display 3) *might* have better out-of-the-box ROM (speculation; D-70 piano seems better than JV-80 piano, which could be the Sound Canvas sample. Supposedly the piano in the ROM expansion for the JV-80 is better still.) 4) better bass (unconfirmed speculation) This is why I get confused when someone who professes to like the D-70 calls the JV-80 "boring." What am I missing? - Neil --==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==-- Neil Weinstock @ AT&T Bell Labs // What was sliced bread att!edsel!nsw or nsw@edsel.att.com \X/ the greatest thing since? From: ross-c@DCS.LEEDS.AC.UK (The Brown Bottle) Subject: Re: JV-80 Date: 9 Apr 92 14:15:29 GMT >From: Neil Weinstock >Subject: Re: JV-80 > >JV-80 pluses: [Deleted] > >D-70 pluses: > 3) *might* have better out-of-the-box ROM (speculation; D-70 piano > seems better than JV-80 piano, which could be the Sound Canvas > sample. Supposedly the piano in the ROM expansion for the JV-80 > is better still.) > I don't know if this is actually the ROM (might be wrong though). It seems to me that about the time the JD-800 was released, somebody in Roland decided that a piano patch should be made by taking a very bright piano sample and applying a LOT of velocity-controlled filter. This seems to be the case in the JX-1, JV-30, JV-80. I think it sounds nice, but not realistic solo. Twiddling patch parameters may help somewhat. Ross-c From: metlay@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu (metlay) Subject: JV-80 vs U-50 (was Re: JV-80) Date: 9 Apr 92 00:00:44 GMT In article <585.9204081304@orsun.dcs.leeds.ac.uk> ross-c@DCS.LEEDS.AC.UK (The Brown Bottle) writes: >>From: Neil Weinstock >>In article <9204071458.AA19885@EDDIE.MIT.EDU> JROSSI@EAGLE.AAMRL.WPAFB.AF.MIL >>writes: >>>The problem with the JV-80 is that >>>it is just another 'me-too' unit which is rather limited, and when compared, >>>say, to a D-70, makes you wondering in which direction Roland is really >>>'progressing'. >>OK, I'll bite. In what way is the JV-80 limited compared to the D-70? The answer to this question depends on what particular criteria you're using to judge the machines. For instance: >Main differences (in the synth engine, the JV-80 should walk all over the D70 > as far as ROM goes): >-DLM >+Ring Modulation. That's basically true; the units have, I believe, identical numbers and arrangements of LFOs, envelopes, signal chain, and so on. The sound quality in the samples appears to be about identical in the two-- the primary difference is, as Ross pointed out, that the JV-80 has a much larger ROM chunk and is more easily expandable to significant sizes. I personally won't touch whether DLM is "better" than Ring Mod. Nick would probably say Ring Mod, because that's what he's used to from his work with the D-50 and now D-550; I know a couple of people who claim to have done interesting things with DLM, though, and prefer it to RM. It appears to be a matter of taste. As far as user interface, the JV-80 has one advantage over the U-50, namely 8 sliders instead of 4. Both machines have the two MIDI sliders on the left side which come in handy. But the U-50 has the 76-note keyboard with relvel, the huge LCD display as opposed to two columns of characters (the one thing about the Wave I'm not looking forward to-- the .GIF shows a 2-column display although Georg claimed it had a 640x400 LCD), and the MIDI-capable buttons under each slider. So in terms of synth engine, they're about equal with an edge to the JV for ROM. But I can say pretty comfortably that I'd never have bought a JV, and I'm quite happy with my U-50 for doing what I needed it to do, namely provide me with a vel/press/relvel 76-note keyboard with six MIDI sliders and two MIDI pedals in addition to the damper and pitch/mod everyone has. I suppose I could have waited until the Alesis S5 came out and hoped that it had everything I needed, but Rothwell's Law applies, and no one really knows how the S5 is going to be set up anyway. The U-50 was and is perfect for my needs; the JV-80 isn't. Remember the Holy Mantra of r.m.s.: "Thy Mileage May Vary, my son." -- metlay | "Now, why can't I buy a decent Venetian cutaway 76-key master @minerva. | keyboard in flamed maple with full body sunburst finish? phyast. | (and gold Schallers, whatever they are.)" pitt.edu | --Nick Rothwell From: tomh@tellabs.com (Tom Huber) Subject: JV-80 opinions? Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1993 23:16:48 GMT Hello eveyone, I recently had the unpleasant experience of one of my synths (an old D-10) getting sick two days before a gig. It stopped making sound, and none of the buttons would work. It still sent and responded to MIDI information. I spent a few hours disassembling the beast, checking the internal wiring, etc. and couldn't find the source of the problem. I ended up renting a JV-80 for the gig, and was fairly impressed by it. It seems like Roland merged the D-series and the JD-800 together and came up with the JV-80. It is multitimbral, like the D-10/20, except better, since all parts can be played >from the keyboard instead of just two. It has lots of sliders for easy programming and real-time control, though not nearly as many as the JD-800. The sounds are much better than the D-10/20, and the patch architecture is also better (each patch has its own tones, rather than sharing tones across multiple patches, so you don't have to worry about edits in one patch trashing the sound of other patches:-). On the down side, there is only space for 64 user patches (128 if a RAM card is used), and there are 128 ROM patches; it would be nice if the ROM was replaced with RAM... At any rate, I'm thinking about buying one of these and retiring the D-10. I'd use the JV-80 primarily for analog and digital (like a D-50) synth sounds, for both lead and rhythm in a rock band, as opposed to instrument emulation sounds. Can any JV-80 owners provide additional information about the synth? Will it suit my needs, or is there something else I should look at that would be better (I'm looking to keep the cost as small as possible, but will spend up to $2000 or so if necessary)? To provide some background, I've also considered getting a WaveStation EX and some sort of analog module (e.g., Matrix 1000), or perhaps a K2000. Any comparisons to these options would be appreciated. Thanks in advance, Tom -- =============================================================================== tomh@tellabs.com | | My opinions are, by definition, my own. Tom Huber | GO | Tellabs | IRISH! | You can't fool all the people all the time, Lisle, IL | | but if you succeed once, it lasts four years. =============================================================================== Subject: FTP sites for JD-800 ??! Date: 25 Jan 93 16:02:15 GMT Are there ANY FTP sites for JD-800 sounds/patches/PCM samples. Now that the JV-80 and JV-880 can use the same patch/wave format it seems that it's (JD-800) popularity may increase?! Simon T. From: adamsj@gtewd.mtv.gsc.gte.com Subject: Re: Sounds!!! Which Unit Delivers? Help! Date: 29 Jan 93 19:14:14 -0800 In article <1993Jan29.044652.7531@gw.wmich.edu>, 363mcwilliam@gw.wmich.edu writes: > I'm currently looking for the best value in a sound source. I have a great > sequencer and I have the Ensoniq eps 16+ sampler with tons of sounds. I just > bought the Oberheim Matrix 1000 sound module. My problem is that I need more > exceptional synth sounds, piano sounds, vocal/choir sounds and weird, moody, > ambient sounds of any type. > The piano in the JV80 (or 880) pop expansion board is terrific. So are the electric pianos. I would think you already have a good piano with the EPS though... There may be more than one expansion board that can be added in to this box. The way you get to the sounds on the expansion board is a little weird, though (I think one at a time, copying them into some buffer. I could be wrong or just don't know a better way). -Jeff Adams- From: Michael A Squillace Subject: Ensoniq KS-32 Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1993 06:04:47 EST Hey, folks: Thanks to those of you who responded to my quiry about electronic pianos. I went with the Ensoniq KS-32 and I *love* it. The sounds are superb (given the price -- $1750) and there's a lot of presets to chose from. It has the weighted keys, though I'm not crazy about the fact that it cuts off at an 'E' on the bass end...but one can't have everything. THe 16-track sequencer is a real powerful component -- it does alot of stuff done by full-fledged, stand alone sequeners. Any other KS-32 owners out there? What do you all think of it? I hav just started working my way through its rather large owner's manual, so I'll probably ahve more comments/questions later. BTW, I tried the JV-80 as some suggested and, to be honest, I wan't eally all that impressed. I've got a D-50 and the JV-80 did alot of the same things and had alot of the same capabilities, though, of course, the JV-80 had smoother sounds (in some cases) than the D-50. Perhaps I am missing something. --> Mike From: billy@irvine.com (*** Bouncer **) Subject: Re: Opinions on Roland's JV-80? Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 01:03:31 GMT >I was considering a JV-80 or JV-1000 as a second keyboard. Anyone have >any experiences (good or bad) with the JV-80 (The 1000 won't be available >here for a couple more days, but it has the same sounds)? > >Mark >morley@camosun.bc.ca Well, your choice depends on several things. Both units have the 8 faders for sending MIDI continuous controllers, however the JV-80 is 61 keys, and the JV-1000 is 76. Depending on if you already have a sequencer (either computer or hardware based), the additional sequencer and disk drive of the JV-1000 might not be worth the extra $$$ to you. They both accept the same cartridges and PCM samples, so I suppose they both sonically sound the same. However, the JV-1000 allows you to have up to 56(?) note polyphony through a plug-in expansion card (similiar to the way a JD-990 can be expanded polyphonically). Also, the keyboard feel of the JV-80 & JV-1000 are identical (synthy, just like a JX-10), so neither will appeal to a person looking for a piano action. If I didn't have a computer (sequencer), and was buying my first synth, and only had the choice of the JV-80 or or the JV-1000, and if money wasn't a problem, then I would obviously go with the JV-1000. However, if I already had a sequencer plus maybe another keyboard (or two) already, I might instead go for a JV-880 (the rackmount JV-80), or even the JD-990. But, then again, you're weren't asking about either of these instruments :-) BTW, I have a JV-880 (which I upgrade to after selling my U-220), and its sounds are very clean and punchy. If only its polyphony could be expanded similiar to the JV-1000/JD-990 expansions... Too bad my K2000RS (name your favorite synth/sampler you own) can't be expanded like this either. Hopefully, this will become a trend in future instruments/updates :-) Billyb (** Bouncer **) From: craig@nomad.uk.sun.com (Craig Barnes - Sun UK - Senior Systems Admin N + SW Group Regio) Subject: Re: Opinions on Roland's JV-80? Date: 18 Jun 1993 09:27:29 GMT I don't have a JV80, but I do have a JV880. I bought the JV to replace my D70 Keyboard and slim my setup down somewhat. I must say that I was slightly dissapointed with the sounds of the JV at first and had to tweak them a lot to get what I wanted out of it. I also found that I couldn't get a decent Elec Guitar sound out of the JV until I added the POP expander board at 299 UK pounds. Now I'm totally satisfied with the JV, lush strings, weak piano's, nice guitars and reed instruments. By the way, the JV1000 is basically JV80 meets the MC50-MKII (it even uses the same cards as the 80) , it is actually two discrete units inside the box with only the MIDI joining them. It looks impressive but at 1849 UK pounds ($2800 US) it's well over priced. But like all Roland units in the UK, give it 6 months and it'll be 3rd off that price at least. The JV880 cost me 540 UK pounds, + 189 UK Pounds for the expander card. An MC50-MKII will be about 700 UK pounds Rgds Craig From: Jay_Tobias@taligent.com (Jay Tobias) Subject: Re: Opinions on Roland's JV-80? Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1993 18:45:58 GMT The JV-80 and JV-880 both offer great value for the money in terms of lots of nice clean samples and a reasonable amount of flexibility. My pros and cons are: + 14 meg of samples (with expansion board and card) + minimal built-in effects (rev, chorus only but better than nothing) + Lots of great 3rd party sounds (the Memory Moog on Voice Crystal 1 screams!) + Compared to the D-50, it added drum kits, multitimbral performances, and microtonal tuning (JV-880 only), and cleaned up the noise while subtracting a number of effects and the nice ring modulation. - The analog feel and kin don't really help me create synthy sounds. In short, Roland made several astute design tradeoffs in getting a functional board out with a reasonable price (JV-880 for well under $1000 on the street). However this is not the kind of synth in which to explore sonic textures in the more general sense, so the reviews pretty well sum it up as a good basic instrument. Jay Tobias email: Jay_Tobias@Taligent.com From: shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally) Subject: Re: What do you think of Roland's JV-880 Module? Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 14:51:31 GMT In article , bethp@milton.u.washington.edu (Beth Plotkin) writes: |> I have an old Kawai K1 - 2 keyboard, a computer-based sequencer |> and a D4 drum module. I went into a nearby music store hoping |> to update my system with a Korg Wavestation SR but the salesperson |> tried to talk me into a Roland JV-880 Module. I have to admit |> that it sounded pretty good, but I haven't heard much discussion |> on them on this group. Is that because they are new? |> |> The salesperson seemed to think that, for example, the piano |> sounds were realistic because they were sampled several times |> and "wave-sequenced" (i.e. the harmonics change with time in |> the sample). Is this how it works? |> |> What do you think of the JV-880 and the Wavestation SR? |> Would you recommend my saving more money to buy a K2000? I heard a demo of the JV880 recently. It is very good sounding module if all you are looking for is a sample playback unit, ie. it does piano, bass, drums etc. very well. If this is all you want, a box that you can dial up some nice sounding presets on, then I'd suggest you also check out the Kawai G-Mega, Yamaha TG100, and Korg 03/W etc (there are probably a few I've missed in this category). If you are looking for a true synthesizer, with unique, non-imitative sounds and textures, then buy a Wavestation. I don't think you can compare the JV880 and Wavestation. It all depends on what you want the box to do for you. The K2000 looks at first glance to be another sample playback unit, but there is this VAST thing. The K2000 has an advanced synth architecture that allows extensive modification of the samples that form the starting point for sounds. The K2000 has access to many sample libraries and a sampling option is available to turn it into a true sampler.