Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth,rec.music.synth From: rjt2@bnr.co.uk () Subject: Re: JV-30 Date: 1 Dec 1992 16:21:31 GMT johanh@svullo.Sweden.Sun.COM (Johan Hagman - Sun Sweden) writes: > Hello everybody! > > I'm planning to buy a beginner's synth, and have up to a few > weeks ago considered a second-hand Roland D5, Yamaha SY22 or > a new SY35. > > But recently I found out that Roland has come out with a new > synth, the JV-30. It seems to have everything I need, including > 16-part multitimbral capability, MT-32 compatibility, GS format > and General MIDI. > > Does anyone have more information, rumours, comments etc on > the JV-30? > > --- > Johan Hagman email: johanh@sun.se or > Sun Microsystems AB johanh@Sweden.Sun.COM > Box 51 Phone: +46 8 6239000 > S-164 94 Kista, Sweden Fax: +46 8 6239005 I too was looking for a beginner's synth and tried out the Yamaha SY22, SY35, Roland U20 (second hand) and the Roland JV-30. I ended up buying the JV-30 and am quite happy with it. It's basically a Roland sound canvas + keyboard as far as I'm aware. phammond@cs.tcd.ie Paul Hammond at Trinity College, Dublin (Computer Science) wrote: > The sound of the JV-30 is not that good and for the extra money the > sound of the JV-80 is well worth it. The JV-30, SY35, etc. are entry level synths and as such cannot be expected to sound brilliant. To make a comparison with the JV-80 is somewhat ludicrous as this is the replacement for the Roland D-70 and a completely different machine (heaven knows why they were both termed JV's !). The JV-30 is listed at 790 pounds sterling in the UK, but I found it easy to get a 650 pound price in central London. SY22 vs SY35 ------------ The Yamaha SY35 is significantly better than the SY22 having much bigger sample memory (2 Meg) and consequently a better sound, (and twice (?) as many initially programmed voices) SY35 vs JV-30 ------------- If you want to know what's best between the SY35 and the JV-30, well that all depends on what you want. The SY35's raison d'etre is the vector mixing which allows you to mix up to 4 waveforms together (2 'AWM' samples and 2 pseudo-FM waveforms - "pseudo" in that it is not programmable FM synthesis aka the DX7 etc). This mix can be varied in real time with the joystick, or programmed. The basic samples on the SY35 are OK, but depend on being mixed as described to get a good sound. The JV-30 uses a mix of PCM sampling and synthesis which is preset in its method of generation. This produces significantly more realistic sounds including some excellent acoustic pianos, acoustic bass, organs, trumpet. The JV-30 has more preset voices: 128 + 61(?) "Variations" + full MT32 voice set + percussion. There are also 128 "user" voices for storing modified versions of the preset voices. NOTE: on the SY35 the "user" voices hold half of the presets, so you have to wipe a preset to program your own voice. Ouch! IN SUMMARY: the JV-30 sounds better, but the SY35 can produce a greater variation in sound (plus the fun of "vector synthesis"). The JV-30 provides for each voice a programmable filter (with resonance), programmable vibrato and programmable variation in amplitude envelopes. The resonance is useful in producing large changes in voice tone quality. I'm not sure about the SY35 on these fronts. AFTERTOUCH: The SY35 features aftertouch which the JV-30 doesn't, although it responds to it via MIDI. MULTITIMBRALITY (i.e. number of different voices at once): JV-30 is 16, SY35 is 8 I think. POLYPHONY (i.e. number of notes at once): JV-30 is 24, SY35 is less.. but can't remember how many. EFFECTS: the SY35 has more I think. The JV-30 provides various chorus and reverb effects. JV-30 in use ------------ (Probably the most useful thing *I* can tell you) There are some pretty good voices for the price. I bought it to use partly for solo piano music for which I am quite satisfied (OK so a weighted keyboard would be a lot nicer.. but that's $$$$ :-) The user interface is very good; it is simple and logical to use the different facilities like filters, envelope, pan, level, effects levels, pitch bend, etc. -a nice selection of data entry sliders. Maximum polyphony is quite important if you are using it in conjunction with a sequencer particularly if you want thick piano or guitar chords on one voice. There is a nice facility to prioritise voice allocation when they start to run out so that, for example, your lead instrument doesn't dry up in mid song (very useful). There is a good selection of special effects voices - enough to stage a theatre production I would think, including fun things like sampled screams and laughter as well as more useful things like rain, thunder, running water, guitar fret noise, applause (makes you feel good even if your playing isn't :-). As for song data sources - anything for the MT-32 or Sound Canvas (GS) or General MIDI works without modification. There are some very impressive Sound Canvas demos and MT-32 songs available from (among other places) mail-server@cs.ruu.nl. If anyone has any other questions on the JV-30 I'm happy to help where I can. ------------ Hope this proves useful to anyone considering buying the JV-30/SY-35. I may well have made some errors in the above and can accept no responsibility for such. If anyone intends to flame please make it constructive (or is that a contradiction in terms ? :-) Cheerio, Richard. Summary: JV-30 sound is feeble From: phammond@cs.tcd.ie (Paul Hammond) Subject: Re: Roland JV-30 Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1992 14:51:23 GMT >>>Does anyone have more information, rumours, comments etc on >>>the JV-30? >>> > >> The sound of the JV-30 is not that good and for the extra money the >> sound of the JV-80 is well worth it. > >> Paul > >I was interested in both the JV-30 and JV-80. What exactly does not that good >mean. Is it the sound quality, reliability? The nature and timbre of the sounds is not good, they are very feeble, and they lack any sort of umph. The JV-80 has a much thicker richer sound. > >Does anyone know the current best prices for both these synths? > The JV-80 is 1499 in Ireland, or 1000 for the rackmount D-880. The JV-30 is about 400 cheaper I think. THese prices are in Irish pounds remember. Paul From: vagif.abilov@thcave.no (Vagif Abilov) Subject: Re: Roland JV-30 Date: 1 Dec 92 10:05:00 GMT RE: Message 9430 entered on Dec 1,92 by JOHN ELLITHORPE to ALL >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JE> I was interested in both the JV-30 and JV-80. What exactly does not that good mean. Is it the sound quality, reliability? JE> Does anyone know the current best prices for both these synths? JE> John JV-80 is 16-bit and has an velocity/aftertouch-sensitive keyboard, JV-30 is only 12-bit and has only velocity-sensitive keys. JV-30 doesn't have any slot for add-on cards, so you must use something else to transfer data. I think JV-80 has greater sounds especially if you install an optional sound bank with several hundred additional patches. I've no idea about prices - I live in Norway. Best regards Vagif. From: gene@bogus.sw.stratus.com (Eugene Loparco) Subject: Re: Roland JV-30 Date: 2 Dec 92 15:46:12 GMT In article <1992Dec1.145123.25646@cs.tcd.ie> phammond@cs.tcd.ie (Paul Hammond) writes: >>>>Does anyone have more information, rumours, comments etc on >>>>the JV-30? >>>> >> >>> The sound of the JV-30 is not that good and for the extra money the >>> sound of the JV-80 is well worth it. >> >>> Paul I, for one, competely disagree. I think that the differences between the sounds of the JV-80 and JV-30 are miniscule (at least not worth $400 more). -Gene From: townsend@msc.cornell.edu (Stephen J. Townsend) Subject: Re: JV30 problem? Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 22:43:21 GMT In article <1993Jan26.165204.27952@aio.jsc.nasa.gov>, todd@motif.uucp (Todd Phillips [PT2]) writes: |> Yo, all you folks with Roland JV-30 experience: |> |> Whenever I assign an instrument to parts 2-16 via the front panel, the |> instrument in part 1 changes to whatever I just assigned the other part to. |> So when setting the parts up, this requires me to set part 1 last, cuz |> otherwise it will just get changed. |> |> Is this a bug or a feature, or am I just missing something? I searched |> the manual, but no dice. |> |> Todd I've experienced a similar problem that drove me crazy for an evening or two. My problem was having "local on" in the "master midi" settings even though I had my computer up and running a sequencer. Here is what was happening in my case (if I had it figured out correctly): After setting the current part to #2, say, pressing the front panel buttons to select the patch for part #2 does two things. First, it sets the patch for part #2 (intended effect) and second, it sends a MIDI message for the patch change through the MIDI Out. Then the MIDI patch change message was being echoed by the computer onto channel #1, due to the settings I had chosen in software. (In EZVision the echo of MIDI In can be set for the channel number of the current track or turned off.) When the message got back to the JV-30 it caused part #1 to be changed to the same patch, since part #1 was set to receive on channel #1 (same as its part number, as is usual). Yikes. The way I avoid this sort of thing now is to make sure that I set "master midi local" to "off" whenever I have my computer running MIDI software. This takes about 8 button presses on the front panel. The annoying thing is that every time you power-up the JV-30 it is automatically set to "on." I think I read that this is to insure you will always get a sound if you just power-up and play the keyboard controller. Hope this helps, Steve townsend@msc.cornell.edu From: d2viktor@dtek.chalmers.se (Viktor Fougstedt) Subject: Re: Help with JV-30 sound editing. Date: 16 Feb 93 09:04:28 GMT mir@chorus.chorus.fr (Adam MIROWSKI) writes: ... >The Sound Canvas doesn't recognize MT-32 sysexes. >It only recognizes its own sysexes. ... Yes, but there are two kinds of JV-30 sysexes. One for the SoundCanvas part, and one for the MT-32 part. The reason that the JV-30 does not respond to MT-32 sysexes is that the parameters have different addresses, although they have the same names, and perform the same functions. If you give a device-ID of 42H (if i remember correctly) in a JV-30 sysex, you will get at an entirely different set of editing parameters, those connected with the MT-32 part. You can not get at these parameters without using MIDI, though. It is with these other parameters my trouble lies. Perhaps someone has a MT-32 manual, it should say what all the different TVF and TVA parameters are, and how to use them. If someone does, please help me out. Viktor. -- * Viktor Fougstedt | Surgeon General's Warning: * * Pl 335 | Since Cigarette Smoke Contains Carbon Monoxide, You * * S-430 64 Hallingsjo | Could Probably Save Lots Of Money By Sucking On Your * * SWEDEN | Car's Exhaust Pipe. * From: mir@chorus.chorus.fr (Adam MIROWSKI) Subject: Re: Help with JV-30 sound editing. Date: 17 Feb 93 00:14:09 GMT d2viktor@dtek.chalmers.se (Viktor Fougstedt) writes: : mir@chorus.chorus.fr (Adam MIROWSKI) writes: : ... : >The Sound Canvas doesn't recognize MT-32 sysexes. : >It only recognizes its own sysexes. : ... : : Yes, but there are two kinds of JV-30 sysexes. One for the SoundCanvas part, : and one for the MT-32 part. The reason that the JV-30 does not respond to : MT-32 sysexes is that the parameters have different addresses, although they : have the same names, and perform the same functions. Any GS device has 2 sets of sysexes. One (model-id = 42H) for controlling the GS part of the instrument and another one for controlling device specific things. For example on my SC55, this second number is 45H. Sysexes with this model-id control screen display. On your JV-30 this second family will probably encode all keys and sliders on the keyboard that do not send normal midi messages otherwise, and will allow you to display any text on the screen. : : If you give a device-ID of 42H (if i remember correctly) in a JV-30 sysex, You are confusing device-ids with model-ids. Model-ids identify a particular kind of instrument inside the Roland family: MT-32 is 16H, D-70 is 39H, etc. Device-ids enable you to distinguish among several identical models when they are daisy-chained from a single MIDI out. If you have 2 MT-32 on a single midi-out, you will need to give them different device-ids. Otherwise they will respond simultaneously to all sysexes. Model-id 42H identifies a GS device. : you will get at an entirely different set of editing parameters, those : connected with the MT-32 part. You can not get at these parameters without : using MIDI, though. It is with these other parameters my trouble lies. There is _no_ MT-32 part in a JV-30. There are some MT-32 configurations. : Perhaps someone has a MT-32 manual, it should say what all the different : TVF and TVA parameters are, and how to use them. If someone does, please : help me out. I have a maual, since I own an CM-32L too, and I can tell you that the list of sysexes takes 4 pages of tiny print: the MT-32 is/was a real synthesizer. Anyway, this information will be of no use for you. -- Adam Mirowski, mir@chorus.fr (FRANCE), tel. +33 (1) 30-64-82-00 or 74 Chorus systemes, 6, av.Gustave Eiffel, 78182 Saint-Quentin-en-Yvelines CEDEX From: d2viktor@dtek.chalmers.se (Viktor Fougstedt) Subject: Re: JV-30 questions Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1993 11:08:08 GMT jason@jarthur.claremont.edu (Jason Merrill) writes: >2) Is the JV-30 compatible with MT-32 software using an MPU-401 compatible >card? How about using the SBP MIDI setup? The JV-30 has a MT-32 simuation mode, wich makes it sound like a basic MT-32. You will not be able to use MT-32 patches, though, and pitchbend goes the wrong way (!), meaning that when an MT-32 song has a pitchbend message bending down, the JV-30 will bend it up instead, effectively making every MT-32 song including pitchbending sound like crap. Apart from that, the JV-30 is an excellent synth for realistic sounding music. The Piano sounds are just great, and most of the other sounds beat just about every other synth in the same price-range. The only thing to wish for is more extensive sound editing. But what the hey, you can't get everything. *8-> /Viktor. -- * Viktor Fougstedt | Surgeon General's Warning: * * Pl 335 | Since Cigarette Smoke Contains Carbon Monoxide, You * * S-430 64 Hallingsjo | Could Probably Save Lots Of Money By Sucking On Your * * SWEDEN | Car's Exhaust Pipe. * From: mir@chorus.chorus.fr (Adam Mirowski) Subject: Re: JV-30 questions Date: 15 Jun 93 17:27:49 GMT Viktor Fougstedt (d2viktor@dtek.chalmers.se) wrote: : : >2) Is the JV-30 compatible with MT-32 software using an MPU-401 compatible : >card? How about using the SBP MIDI setup? : : The JV-30 has a MT-32 simuation mode, wich makes it sound like a basic : MT-32. You will not be able to use MT-32 patches, though, and : pitchbend goes the wrong way (!), meaning that when an MT-32 song has : a pitchbend message bending down, the JV-30 will bend it up instead, : effectively making every MT-32 song including pitchbending sound like : crap. Are you sure it is pitchbend and not the Pan Pot? My Sound Canvas docs mention that it pans in the opposite direction than the MT32 (and propose to swap wires to correct that if needed), but say nothing about the pitchbend. I cannot check this right now. The SC has probably not only the same pitchbend direction, but also the same default range: two semitones. -- Adam Mirowski, mir@chorus.fr (FRANCE), tel. +33 (1) 30-64-82-00 or 74 Chorus systemes, 6, av.Gustave Eiffel, 78182 Saint-Quentin-en-Yvelines CEDEX From: Subject: Re: JV-30 questions Date: Tuesday, 15 Jun 1993 15:42:49 PST In article <3740@chorus.chorus.fr>, mir@chorus.chorus.fr (Adam Mirowski) says: >Viktor Fougstedt (d2viktor@dtek.chalmers.se) wrote: >: >: The JV-30 has a MT-32 simuation mode, wich makes it sound like a basic >: MT-32. You will not be able to use MT-32 patches, though, and >: pitchbend goes the wrong way (!)... >Are you sure it is pitchbend and not the Pan Pot? >My Sound Canvas docs mention that it pans in the >opposite direction than the MT32 (and propose to >swap wires to correct that if needed), but say nothing >about the pitchbend. I cannot check this right now. I just bought a JV-30 last week and noticed the manual says that the pan directions are reversed when in MT-32 mode. "But the setting of the pitch bend range, modulation depth, etc., are different from that of MT-32. Pan directions are reversed from an actual MT-32, so to rectify this, reverse the L/R connections of the Audio Output jacks." from JV-30 Owner's Maunal p.55 I love it, but then I'm really a guitar player fascinated with MIDI. Brian