ABLEnews Extra

              Which Side Are You On, Al?

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          No doubt there was enough nastiness to go around
          during the recently concluded 1994 US elections.
          ABLEnews--like CURE--is strictly nonpartisan when
          it comes to electoral politics. We are, however,
          unabashedly PARTISAN when it comes to attacks on
          persons with disability from ANY quarter.

          In any event, we thought you might like to see
          the following exchange as posted on the Down Syndrome
          List, moderated by a man we quite partisanly admire:
          our cherished ABLEnews adviser, Bill McGarry.

N.B.: ALL ellipses are in the original posts. I ask the kind
      indulgence of our SysOps--and readers--for the extra
      bandwith but due to the nature of this discussion
      I thought it best to edit only the routing data. Thanks.

                                               Earl Appleby Jr.
                                               ABLEnews Moderator
                                               
Subject:  DOWN-SYN Digest - 7 Nov 1994 to 8 Nov 1994

Topics of the day:

  1. Gore's Comment

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 8 Nov 1994 23:20:44 -0500
From:    C1NDYSUE <c1ndysue@AOL.COM>
Subject: Gore's Comment

Just wanted to share this with all:

Subj:  The Big Mistake
Date:  94-11-07 19:10:39 EST
From:  C1NDYSUE

Just wanted to share Al Gore's comment with this BB.

    And he is banking on the fact that he can raise enough money from
the extreme right wing, the extra chromosome right wing, to come in and
buy enough advertising to just overwhelm the truth with blatant
falsehoods. He wants the voters of Virginia to go to the polls and say,
Ollie North is a man of strong character. Because he can't -- anybody
who knows him, who he worked for in the past, says no, he doesn't have
character, he lies, he should never be let close to a position of trust.
And so he wants to try to con the voters into saying what people who
really know him won't say.

     Thank you.

     Q  Are you surprised that Nancy Reagan said that, though?  Are you
surprised that --

     THE VICE PRESIDENT:  No, I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised that
Nancy Reagan would say that, because Ronald Reagan said that, and Bud
McFarlane said that, and Normal Schwarzkopf said that, and Colin Powell
said that. And people who you would think would be his political allies
who actually know what a serious problem he has in telling lies all say
that.

     So Nancy Reagan -- what she has said is consistent with what others
who have worked with him say.

     Q  Do you want to make any predictions about Democratic losses in
the Senate or the House? New predictions?

     THE VICE PRESIDENT:  Well, I think that the prediction by Newt
Gingrich that he is going to be speaker and his decision to go to work
on his transition plan may be a little bit premature. Tom Dewey was
working on his transition plan at a time when many predicted a disaster
for Democrats, and the Republicans tried to seize what they thought was
an opportunity by obstructing progress in the Congress, and the American
people took a close look in the weeks preceding the election, and they
said, wait a minute, what the Republicans are offering is nonsense, and
what the Democrats are producing is good, steady progress that helps
working people.

     And we have that situation again, and so I'll make a flat-out
prediction that when the voters go to the polls, they're going to
deliver a rude surprise to Newt Gingrich and Bob Dole, and they're going
to say, we want to build on the good start we've made, we want to
continue moving forward, we don't want to go back to trickle-down
Reaganomics.

     Q  So what is your prediction?

     THE VICE PRESIDENT:  We're going to do extremely well.

     Q  What's an "extra chromosome Republican"?

     Q  Right wing.

     Q  Extra Y chromosome?

     THE VICE PRESIDENT:  No, no, no. (Laughter) That's the extreme
right wing I'm talking about.

     Q  It wasn't anything to do with mental deficiency? I mean, an
extra chromosome -- was that a reference -- to mongoloid?

     THE VICE PRESIDENT:  Are we having a bit of political correctness
here? No, it wasn't. No, you remember -- oh, for goodness sakes -- what
I meant was the extreme right wing, the ones that support Ollie North.

     THE PRESS:  Thank you.

END12:34 P.M. EDT

Transmitted:  94-10-28 21:43:42 EDT

Subject:  DOWN-SYN Digest - 8 Nov 1994 to 9 Nov 1994

Topics of the day:

  1. Gore's Comment (7)
  2. Al's comments
  3. Gore's Comment -Reply (2)
  4. channeling energy

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 9 Nov 1994 06:29:05 -0800
From:    Joel Baker <joel@SPECIALIX.COM>
Subject: Gore's Comment


>Just wanted to share this with all:

>Subj:  The Big Mistake
>Date:  94-11-07 19:10:39 EST
>From:  C1NDYSUE

>Just wanted to share Al Gore's comment with this BB.

>    And he is banking on the fact that he can raise enough money from the
>extreme right wing, the extra chromosome right wing, to come in and buy
>enough advertising to just overwhelm the truth with blatant falsehoods. He
>wants the voters of Virginia to go to the polls and say, Ollie North is a
>man of strong character. Because he can't -- anybody who knows him, who he
>worked for in the past, says no, he doesn't have character, he lies, he
>should never be let close to a position of trust. And so he wants to try
>to con the voters into saying what people who really know him won't say.

l>     Thank you.

>     Q  Are you surprised that Nancy Reagan said that, though?  Are you
>surprised that --

>     THE VICE PRESIDENT:  No, I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised that
>Nancy Reagan would say that, because Ronald Reagan said that, and Bud
>McFarlane said that, and Normal Schwarzkopf said that, and Colin Powell
>said that. And people who you would think would be his political allies
>who actually know what a serious problem he has in telling lies all say
>that.

>     So Nancy Reagan -- what she has said is consistent with what others
>who have worked with him say.

Much deleted...

The way I read your posting is that Gore was quoting Nancy Reagan in the
first paragraph.  Perhaps that needs to be clarified. Perhaps if he said
it he had something else in mind-likethe extra Y chromosome said to be
present in many dangerous criminals.

Either way, if this is an attempt to foster sympathy for North it is
misdirected.  North sold arms to our enemies, and that is far worse than
a poorly chosen term by an impassioned politico.

IMHO.
Joel
********************************************************************************
Joel L. Baker                     E-Mail  joel@specialix.com
Account Executive             The opinions expressed are strictly my own.
Specialix, Inc.               So you'll have to come up with your own!
*************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 9 Nov 1994 14:51:00 -0500
From:    Deba Patnaik OBPIB 32736 <DPATNAIK@WORLDBANK.ORG>
Subject: Re: Gore's Comment

>
>Just wanted to share Al Gore's comment with this BB.
>
>    And he is banking on the fact that he can raise enough money
> from the extreme right wing, the extra chromosome right wing, to
> come in and buy enough advertising to just overwhelm the truth with
> blatant falsehoods.

I  heard his comments over radio while going back from work. I felt
little emotional and upset about his comment, which is to me
insensitive.

I called up the radio station and explained my feelings - the radio
station wanted me to appear on a talk show that evening.

I did not want to make big deal about it , so I declined because I
thought I could convey my concerns to the Vice President directly ( he
has an email address, which he had mentioned about it in public). So I
wrote to vicepresident@whitehouse.org.  I have not received any response
except an automated response.

I think Mr. Vice President did not mean it but it is an unusual "slur"
to use when you are attacking another person.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 9 Nov 1994 09:34:22 -0600
From:    Ted Priebe <tlpriebe@CCA.ROCKWELL.COM>
Subject: Re: Gore's Comment

who actually know what a serious problem he has in telling lies all say
>>that.
>
>>     So Nancy Reagan -- what she has said is consistent with what others
>>who have worked with him say.
>
>Much deleted...
>
>The way I read your posting is that Gore was quoting Nancy Reagan
>in the first paragraph.  Perhaps that needs to be clarified.
>Perhaps if he said it he had something else in mind-likethe extra
>Y chromosome said to be present in many dangerous criminals.
>
>Either way, if this is an attempt to foster sympathy for North it
>is misdirected.  North sold arms to our enemies, and that is far
>worse than a poorly chosen term by an impassioned politico.
>
>IMHO.
>Joel

THIS IS THE WRONG FORUM TO SLAM OLIVER NORTH OR ANYONE ELSE FOR THAT
MATTER. PEOPLE THAT MONITOR THIS GROUP HAVE A COMMON THREAD IN THAT WE
ARE ALL CONCERNED ABOUT THE DISABLED.  THAT DOES NOT MEAN WE ARE ALL
DEDICATED LIBERALS.

===================================================
Ted Priebe              phone:  (319)395-3929
EDA Applications Group  fax:    (319)395-4182
Rockwell International
tlpriebe@pobox.cca.rockwell.com

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 9 Nov 1994 09:44:34 EST
From:    "James I. Campbell" <jic@SUNSRVR3.CCI.COM>
Subject: Re: Gore's Comment

Vice President Al Gore on Oliver North:

>    And he is banking on the fact that he can raise enough money from the
> extreme right wing, the extra chromosome right wing, to come in and buy
> enough advertising to just overwhelm the truth with blatant falsehoods.
>
> [ ... ]
>
> Q  What's an "extra chromosome Republican"?
>
>     Q  Right wing.
>
>     Q  Extra Y chromosome?
>
>     THE VICE PRESIDENT:  No, no, no. (Laughter) That's the extreme right
> wing I'm talking about.
>
>     Q  It wasn't anything to do with mental deficiency? I mean, an extra
> chromosome -- was that a reference -- to mongoloid?
>
>     THE VICE PRESIDENT:  Are we having a bit of political correctness
> here? No, it wasn't.

I am quite disappointed in Al Gore.  No, political correctness has
nothing to do with it  - and for Al Gore to have made that claim misses
the point and indicates at least befuddlement, if not insensitivity.
With Gore's noticeably high IQ, you would think that he'd be more aware.

Speaking as a Clinton/Gore supporter, I did and do expect better.
Perhaps his anger at all the negative campaigning in this election
season played some role here, but it sure doesn't excuse it.  Now that
the Republicans have taken over the Congress, we'll see how well such
comments will work for him and his administration's agenda.

Mr. Vice President:  remember the talk of "Bozos" that your opponent
used in 1992?  How well did that work for him?

Let's drop Al Gore a line at vice.president@whitehouse.gov.

- Jim Campbell (jic@cci.com)

"Hi!  Welcome to the link between the White House and the Internet.
 We're pleased to be able to provide this Interactive Citizens' Handbook
 that will make government information easier to access than ever before
 and strengthen the dialogue between American citizens and the public
 officials who work for them."

 - Al Gore's spoken welcome message on the White House's World Wide Web
   page (http://www.whitehouse.gov).

OK, Al, you wanted dialogue ... here it comes!

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 9 Nov 1994 11:15:42 -0500
From:    George Hall <GEORG#u#HA@OFFSMTP.HBOC.COM>
Subject: Al's comments

I don't think the person posting the comments meant to slam Mr. North.
In the context of our community here it was meant to slam Al (or at
least draw attention to his boorish insensitivity...etc).

I think we should forgive Mr. Gore quickly.  He seems to stand with us
on substantive issues that relate to services to our kids.  There are
real bad people out there to direct our anger at for REAL offenses.
There are those who will try to water down the Individuals with
Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) this year as it goes up for
re-authorization.  Some of them are the  same folks who spent bizillions
of dollars defeating health care reform last year.  Everyone should take
this anger directed at Mr. Gore and write to their representatives to
insist that IDEA is reauthorized as is.  The only changes we should
allow would be implementation and enforcement provisions.  Also write to
whichever Republicans will take Sen. Harkins' and Rep.  Owen's committe
chairs now, and put together reauthorization bills for IDEA.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 9 Nov 1994 12:21:54 -0500
From:    Cindy Bohon Casten <C1NDYSUE@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Gore's Comment

Joel,

     My posting was not meant to foster sympathy for North.  Just wanted
to share his comments with the readers of this BB.  He did goof by
saying what he did.  I don't really spend that much time reading the
political news, my interests are advocating for people with
developmental disabilities.  The reporters referral to the extra
chromosome meaning "mongoloid" upset me, too. That's why I copied the
end of the press briefing.

Cindy

Much deleted...

The way I read your posting is that Gore was quoting Nancy Reagan in the
first paragraph.  Perhaps that needs to be clarified. Perhaps if he said
it he had something else in mind-like the extra Y chromosome said to be
present in many dangerous criminals.

Either way, if this is an attempt to foster sympathy for North it is
misdirected.  North sold arms to our enemies, and that is far worse than
a poorly chosen term by an impassioned politico.

IMHO.
Joel

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 9 Nov 1994 10:26:38 EST
From:    "James I. Campbell" <jic@SUNSRVR3.CCI.COM>
Subject: Re: Gore's Comment

Joel, I read through that again, and I wish I could agree, but Nancy
Reagan would never have applied the term "extra chromosome" to the
Republican right wing.    The question about Nancy Reagan seemed to
refer to comments omitted from the quotation we were provided, perhaps a
quotation from Nancy Reagan about Oliver North.

By further saying, "I'm not surprised that Nancy Reagan would say that,
because Ronald Reagan said that, and Bud McFarlane said that, and Norman
Schwazkopf said that..." Gore seemed to be indicating that many members
of North's own party, those who clearly know him and who clearly are on
the right, were not backing his candidacy.  None of these people ever
called the extreme right such names!

- Jim

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 9 Nov 1994 10:42:17 -0700
From:    Ron Hathcock <Ron_Hathcock@NOVELL.COM>
Subject: Gore's Comment -Reply

Cindy,

I heard about it second-hand. Thanks for posting the full conversation.
My response to it is the same:

I wish the man could walk a few miles in my (or any of ours) shoes. DS
is nothing to joke about.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 9 Nov 1994 10:44:32 -0700
From:    Ron Hathcock <Ron_Hathcock@NOVELL.COM>
Subject: Gore's Comment -Reply

Joel Baker said:

>North sold arms to our enemies, and that is far worse than
>a poorly chosen term by an impassioned politico.

Joel, I'm not about to excuse North for his crimes, but referring to Al
Gore as "impassioned" is a joke! The man has all the passion of a tree
stump.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 9 Nov 1994 11:47:14 -0600
From:    philip j mattheis <mattheis@BLUE.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU>
Subject: channeling energy

George Hall wrote:
>I think we should forgive Mr. Gore quickly.  He seems to stand with us on
>substantive issues that relate to services to our kids.  There are real bad
>people out there to direct our anger at for REAL offenses.  There are
>those who will try to water down the Individuals with Disabilities
>Education Act (IDEA) this year as it goes up for re-authorization.  Some
>of them are the  same folks who spent bizillions of dollars defeating
>health care reform last year.  Everyone should take this anger directed at
>Mr. Gore and write to their representatives to insist that IDEA is
>reauthorized as is.  The only changes we should allow would be
>implementation and enforcement provisions.  Also write to whichever
>Republicans will take Sen. Harkins' and Rep.  Owen's committe chairs
>now, and put together reauthorization bills for IDEA.

I hope we all can take George's advice here. Whatever one's political
sympathies, one has to recognise that any momentum that may have existed
to sustain progress in disabilities is at risk of being lost in midst of
the major reallignments of power which will be occurring over the next
few months...

Seems to me we'd be more effective by focusing on the emerging power
bases, instead of beating on the losers.

(as ever, those with personal comments about specific postings should
consider whether their responses are more appropriately directed to the
poster rather than the list in general. I've seen more than enough flame
wars on various bulletin boards and maillists; they seem particularly
out of place on this one.)

Phil (who is certainly NOT looking for a fight)

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 9 Nov 1994 09:57:11 -0800
From:    Joel Baker <joel@SPECIALIX.COM>
Subject: Re: Gore's Comment

>Joel,

>     My posting was not meant to foster sympathy for North.  Just wanted to
>share his comments with the readers of this BB.  He did goof by saying what
>he did.  I don't really spend that much time reading the political news, my
>interests are advocating for people with developmental disabilities.  The
>reporters referral to the extra chromosome meaning "mongoloid" upset me, too.
> That's why I copied the end of the press briefing.

>Cindy

Understood.  I'm still in shock over general results last night. To me
the worst thing in that interview was the comment by the reporter, as
you said, the "mongoloid" comment.  It just shows how far we have to go
with the population in general.  The reporter was the one who brought up
the DS connection.  I honestly think Al was referring to the extra "Y"
chromosome in some criminals.  Either way, he goofed, but I don't think
it was a slam in our direction.

Joel
********************************************************************************
Joel L. Baker                     E-Mail  joel@specialix.com
Account Executive             The opinions expressed are strictly my own.
Specialix, Inc.               So you'll have to come up with your own!
*************************************************************************

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