
    The follwing is the text of the vice presidential debate
 in Atlanta on Tuesday, Oct 13.
    HAL BRUNO: Good evening from Atlanta and welcome to the
 vice presidential debate sponsored by the Nonpartisan
 Commission on Presidential Debates. It's being held here in
 the Theater for the Arts on the campus of Georgia Tech. I'm
 Hal Bruno from ABC News and I'm going to be moderating
 tonight's debate. The participants are Republican Vice
 President Dan Quayle. 
    (Applause)
    Democratic Senator Al Gore.
    (Applause)
    And retired Vice Admiral James Stockdale, who is the vice
 presidential nominee--
    (Applause)
    --for independent candidate Ross Perot.
    (Applause)
    Now, the ground rules for tonight's debate. Each 
 candidate will have 2 minutes for an opening statement. I
 will then present the issues to be discussed. For each
 topic, the candidates will have a minute and 15 seconds to
 respond. Then this will be followed by a 5 minute discussion
 period in which they can ask questions of each other if they
 so choose.
    Now, the order of response has been determined by a
 drawing and we'll rotate with each topic. At the end of the
 debate, each candidate will have 2 minutes for a closing
 statement. 
    Our radio and TV audience should know that the candidates
 were given an equal allocation of auditorium seats for their
 supporters. So I'd like to ask the audience here in the
 theater to please refrain from applause or any partisan
 demonstration once the debate is under way because it takes
 time away from the candidates.                         So
 with that plea from your moderator let's get started.
    And we'll turn first to Senator Gore for his opening
 statement. 
    SENATOR GORE: Good evening. It's great to be here in
 Atlanta for this debate where America will be showcases to
 the world when the 1996 Olympics are put on right here. It's
 appropriate because in a real sense, our discussion this
 evening will be about what kind of nation we want to be 4
 years from now. It's also a pleasure to be with my 2
 opponents this evening. Admiral Stockdale, may I say it's a
 special honor to share this stage with you. Those of us who
 served in Vietnam looked at you as a national hero even 
 before you were awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor.
    And Mr. Vice President--Dan, if I may--it was 16 years
 ago that you and I went to the Congress on the very first
 day together. I'll make you a deal this evening. If you
 don't try to compare George Bush to Harry Truman, I won't
 compare you to Jack Kennedy.
    (Applause)
    Harry Truman--
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Do you remember the last time
 someone compared themselves to Jack Kennedy? Do you remember 
 what they said?
    SENATOR GORE: Harry Truman, it's worth remembering,
 assumed the presidency when Franklin Roosevelt died here in
 Georgia--only one of many occasions when fate thrust a vice
 president into the Oval Office in a time of crisis. It's
 something to think about during the debate this evening. But
 our real discussion is going to be about change. Bill
 Clinton and I stand for change because we don't believe our
 nation can stand 4 more years of what we've had under George
 Bush and Dan Quayle. 
    When the recession came they were like a deer caught in
 the headlights--paralyzed into inaction, blinded to the
 suffering and pain of bankruptcies and people who were
 unemployed. We have an environmental crisis, a health
 insurance crisis, substandard education. It is time for a
 change.
    Bill Clinton and I want to get our country moving forward
 again, put our people back to work, and create a bright
 future for the US of America. 
    BRUNO: Okay, the next statement will be from Vice
 President Quayle.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Well, thank you, Senator Gore, for
 reminding me about my performance in the 1988 vice
 presidential debate. This is 1992, Bill Clinton is running
 against President George Bush. There are 2 things that I'm
 going to stress during this debate: one, Bill Clinton's
 economic plan and his agenda will make matters much, much
 worse--he will raise your taxes, he will increase spending, 
 he will make government bigger, jobs will be lost; second,
 Bill Clinton does not have the strength nor the character to
 be president of the US.
    (Applause)
    Let us look at the agendas. President Bush wants to hold
 the line on taxes, Bill Clinton wants to raise taxes.
 President Bush is for a balanced budget amendment, Bill
 Clinton is opposed to it. We want to reform the legal system
 because it's too costly, Bill Clinton wants the status quo.
 We want to reform the health care system, Bill Clinton wants 
 to ration health care. Bill Clinton wants to empower
 government, we want to empower people.
    In St. Louis, Missouri, in June of this year, Bill
 Clinton said this: "America is the mockery of the world." He
 is wrong.
    At some time during these next 4 years there is going to
 be a crisis--there will be an international crisis. I can't
 tell you where it's going to be, I can't even tell you the
 circumstances--but it will happen. We need a president who
 has the experience, who has been tested, who has the 
 integrity and qualifications to handle the crisis. The
 president has been tested, the president has the integrity
 and the character. The choice is yours.
    You need to have a president you can trust. Can you
 really trust Bill Clinton?
    BRUNO: Admiral Stockdale, your opening statement, please,
 sir?
    STOCKDALE: Who am I? Why am I here?
    (Laughter and applause)
    I'm not a politician--everybody knows that. So don't 
 expect me to use the language of the Washington insider.
 Thirty-7 years in the Navy, and only one of them up there in
 Washington. And now I'm an academic.
    The centerpiece of my life was the Vietnam War. I was
 there the day it started. I led the first bombing raid
 against North Vietnam. I was there the day it ended, and I
 was there for everything in between. Ten years in Vietnam,
 aerial combat, and torture. I know things about the Vietnam
 War better than anybody in the world. I know some things
 about the Vietnam War better than anybody in the world. 
    And I know how governments, how American governments can
 be--can be courageous, and how they can be callow. And
 that's important. That's one thing I'm an insider on.
    I was the leader of the underground of the American
 pilots who were shot down in prison in North Vietnam. You
 should know that the American character displayed in those
 dungeons by those fine men was a thing of beauty.
    I look back on those years as the beginning of wisdom,
 learning everything a man can learn about the 
 vulnerabilities and the strengths that are ours as
 Americans.
    Why am I here tonight? I am here because I have in my
 brain and in my heart what it takes to lead America through
 tough times.
    BRUNO: Thank you, Admiral. I thought since you're running
 for vice president, that we ought to start off by talking
 about the vice presidency itself. The vice president
 presides over the Senate, he casts a deciding vote in case
 of a tie, but his role really depends on the assignments 
 that are given to him by the president. However, if a
 president should die in office, or is unable to serve for
 any other reason, the vice president automatically becomes
 president, and that has happened 5 times in this century.
    So the proposition I put on the table for you to discuss
 is this.
    What role would each of you like to play as vice
 president, what areas interest you, and what are your
 qualifications to serve as president, if necessary?
    In the case of Vice President Quayle, who we're starting 
 with, I suppose you'd tell us the role that you did play in
 the first term and which you'd like to do in a 2d term.  Go
 ahead, sir.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Well, then I won't give you that
 answer.
    Qualifications. I've been there, Hal. I've done the job.
 I've been tested. I've been vice president for 4 years.
 Senator Gore referred to us being elected to the Congress
 together in 1976. I've done the job. I've done many things
 for the president. 
    But even as vice president you never know exactly what
 your role is going to be from time to time, and let me just
 give you an example of where I was tested under fire and in
 a crisis.
    President Bush was flying to Malta in 1989 to meet with
 President Gorbachev. It was the first meeting between
 President Bush and President Gorbachev. They had known each
 other before.
    A coup broke out in the Philippines. I had to go to the 
 situation room. I had to assemble the president's advisers.
 I talked to President Aquino. I made the recommendation to
 the president. The president made the decision, the coup was
 suppressed, democracy continued in the Philippines, the
 situation was ended.
    I've been there.  And I'll tell you one other thing that
 qualifies you for being president--and it's this, Hal--
  you've got to stand up for what you believe in. And nobody
 has ever criticized me for not having strong beliefs.
    (Applause.) 
    BRUNO: Admiral Stockdale.
    STOCKDALE: My association with Mr. Perot is a very
 personal one and as I have stood in and finally taken his
 running mate position, he has granted me total autonomy. I
 don't take advantage of it, but I am sure that he would make
 me a partner in decision, in making decisions about the way
 to handle health care, the way to get this economy back on
 its feet again, in every way.
    I have not had the experience of these gentlemen, but--to 
 be any more specific--but I know I have his trust, and I
 intend to act in a way to keep that situation alive. Thank
 you.
    BRUNO: Senator Gore.
    SENATOR GORE: Bill Clinton understands the meaning of the
 words "teamwork" and "partnership." If we're successful in
 our efforts to gain your trust and lead this nation, we will
 work together to put our country back on the right track
 again. The experience that George Bush and Dan Quayle have
 been talking about includes the worst economic performance 
 since the Great Depression. Unemployment is up, personal
 income is down, bankruptcies are up, housing starts are
 down. How long can we continue with trickle-down economics
 when the record of failure is so abundantly clear?
    Discussions of the vice presidency tend sometimes to
 focus on the crisis during which a vice president is thrust
 into the Oval Office, and indeed, one-3d of the vice
 presidents who have served have been moved into the White
 House.
    But the teamwork and partnership beforehand--and 
 hopefully that situation never happens--how you work
 together is critically important. The way we work together
 in this campaign is one sample.
    Now I'd like to say in response to Vice President Quayle-
 -he talked about Malta and the Philippines. George Bush has
 concentrated on every other country in the world. When are
 you guys going to start worrying about our people here in
 the US of America and get our country moving again?
    (Applause)
    BRUNO: Again, I will ask the audience: please do not 
 applaud, it takes time from the candidates. All right, now
 we have 5 minutes for discussion. Go ahead, Vice President
 Quayle.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: The answer to that is very simple:
 we are not going to raise taxes to create new jobs, we have
 a plan to create new jobs. But that wasn't the question. The
 question dealt with qualifications. Teamwork and partnership
 may be fine in the Congress, Senator Gore--that's what
 Congress is all about, compromise, teamwork, working things
 out. But when you're president of the US or when you're vice 
 president and you have to fill in like I did the night of
 the crisis in the Philippines, you've got to make a
 decision, you've got to make up your mind. Bill Clinton,
 running for president of the US, said this about the Persian
 Gulf war. He said: "Had I been in the Senate, I would have
 voted with the majority, if it was a close vote. But I
 agreed with the arguments of the minority."
    You can't have it both ways, you have to make a decision.
 You cannot sit there in an international crisis--
    (Applause) 
     --and sit there and say, well, on the one hand, this is
 okay, and, on the other hand, this is okay. You've got to
 make the decision. President Bush has made the decisions;
 he's been tested, he's got the experience, he's got the
 qualification, he's got the integrity to be our president
 for the next 4 years.
    BRUNO: Thank you, Mr. Vice President. Admiral Stockdale,
 it's your turn to respond next, and then Senator Gore will
 have his chance to respond. 
    STOCKDALE: Okay. I thought this was just an open session,
 this 5-minute thing, and I didn't have anything to add to
 his. But I will--
    SENATOR GORE: Well, I'll jump in if you don't want--
    (Laughter)
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: I thought anyone could jump in
 whenever they wanted to.
    BRUNO: Okay, whatever pleases you gentlemen is fine with
 me. You're the candidates. 

    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: But I want Admiral Stockdale's
 time.
    (Laughter and applause)
    BRUNO: This is not the Senate, where you can trade off
 time. Go ahead, Senator Gore.
    SENATOR GORE: I'll let you all figure out the rules, I've
 got some points that I want to make here, and I still
 haven't gotten an answer to my question on when you guys are
 going to start worrying about this country, but I want to 
 elaborate on it before--
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Why doesn't the Democratic
 Congress--why doesn't the Democratic Congress--
    BRUNO: Mr. Vice President, let him say his thoughts, and
 then you can come in.
    SENATOR GORE: I was very patient in letting you get off
 that string of attacks. We've been listening to--
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Good points.
    SENATOR GORE: --trickle-down economics for 12 years now,
 and you all still support trickle-down to the very last 
 drop. And, you know, talking about this point of
 concentrating on every other country in the world as opposed
 to the people of our country right here at home, when George
 Bush took former Secretary of State Baker out of the State
 Dept and put him in charge of the campaign and made him
 chief of staff in the White, Mr. Baker, who's quite a
 capable man, said that for these last 4 years George Bush
 was working on the problems of the rest of the world and in
 the next 4 years he would target America.
 SENATOR GORE (continuing): Well, I want you to know we
 really appreciate that. But Bill Clinton and I will target
 America from day one. We won't wait 4 years before we
 concentrate on the problems in this country.
    He went on to say that it's really amazing what George
 Bush can do when he concentrates. Well, it's time that we
 had a president like Bill Clinton who can concentrate and
 will concentrate and work on the problems of real people in 
 this country. You know, our country is in trouble. We simply
 cannot continue with this philosophy of giving huge tax cuts
 to the very wealthy, raising taxes on middle income families
 the way Bush and Quayle have done and then waiting for it to
 work. How much longer will it take, Dan, for trickle down
 economics to work, in your theory?
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Well, we're going to have plenty
 of time to talk about trickle down government, which you're
 for. But the question--
    SENATOR GORE: Well, I'd like to hear the answer. 
     VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: But the question is--the question
 is--and which you have failed to address, and that is, why
 is Bill Clinton qualified to be president of the US. You've
 talked about--
    SENATOR GORE: Oh, I'll be happy to answer that question--
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: You've talked about Jim Baker.
 You've talked about trickle down economics. You've talked
 about the worst economy-
    BRUNO: Now, wait a minute. The question was about-- 
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: --in 50 years.
    SENATOR GORE: I'll be happy to answer those. May I
 answer--
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Why is he qualified to be
 president of the US?
    SENATOR GORE: I'll be happy to--
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: I want to go back and make a
 point--
    SENATOR GORE: Well, you've asked me the question. If you 
 won't answer my question I will answer yours.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: I have not asked you a question.
 I've made a statement, that you have not told us why Bill
 Clinton is qualified to be president of the US. I pointed
 out what he said about the Persian Gulf War. But let me
 repeat it for you. Here's what he said, Senator. You know
 full well what he said.
    SENATOR GORE: You want me to answer your question?
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: I'm making a statement. Then you
 can answer it. 
    BRUNO: Can we give Admiral Stockdale a chance to come in,
 please--
    (Applause)
    And again, audience--
    (Simultaneous conversation)
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: (Inaudible) here's what he said. I
 mean, this is the Persian Gulf War--the most important event
 in his political lifetime and here's what Bill Clinton says.
 If it's a close vote, I'd vote with the majority. 
    BRUNO: Let's give Admiral Stockdale a chance to come in.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: But he was the minority. That
 qualifies you for being president of the US. I hope America
 is listening very closely to this debate tonight.
    STOCKDALE: And I think America is seeing right now the
 reason this nation is in gridlock.
    (Laughter, applause)
    The trickle downs and the tax and spends, or whatever you
 want to call them are at swords points. We can't get this 
 economy going. Over here we've got Dan whose president is
 going to take 8 years to balance the budget and on my left,
 the senator, whose boss is going to get it half way balanced
 in 4 years. Ross Perot has got a plan to balance the budget
 5 years in length from start to finish. And we're--people of
 the non-professional category who are just sick of this
 terrible thing that's happened to the country. And we've got
 a man who knows how to fix it, and I'm working for him.
    (Applause)
    BRUNO: I was a little bit worried that there might not be 
 a free flowing discussion tonight.
    (Laughter)
    Let's move on to the economy. Specifically the economy
 was talked about at great length the other night in the
 presidential debate. Let's talk about a very particular
 aspect of the economy and that is, getting people back to
 work. For the average person, the great fear is losing his
 or her job and many Americans have lost jobs in this
 recession, which also means the loss of benefits, the loss
 of a home, the destruction of a family's security. 
 Specifically, how would your administration go about getting
 people back to work and how long is it going to take? And we
 start with Admiral Stockdale.
    STOCKDALE: The lifeblood of our economy is investment.
 And right now when we pay $350--we borrow $350 billion a
 year it saps the money markets and the private investors are
 not getting their share. What we do is work on that budget
 by an aggressive program, not a painful program, so that we
 can start borrowing less money and getting more investment
 money on the street through entrepreneurs who can build 
 factories, who will hire people, and maybe we'll start
 manufacturing goods here in this country again. That's--
 that's my answer.
    BRUNO: Okay. Senator Gore.
    SENATOR GORE: Bill Clinton's top priority is putting
 America back to work. Bill Clinton and I will create good,
 high-wage jobs for our people, the same way he has done in
 his state. Bill Clinton has created high-wage manufacturing
 jobs at 10 times the national average and in fact according
 to the statistics coming from the Bush-Quayle Labor Dept, 
 for the last 2 years in a role Bill Clinton's state has been
 number one among all 50 in the creation of jobs in the
 private sector.
    By contrast, in the nation as a whole, during the last
 4 years, it is the first time since the presidency of
 Herbert Hoover, that we have gone for a 4-year period with
 fewer jobs at the end of that 4-year period than we had at
 the beginning.
    And look at manufacturing. We have lost 1.4 million jobs
 in manufacturing under George Bush and Dan Quayle. They have 
 even--we learned 2 weeks ago--taken our tax dollars and
 subsidized the moving of US factories to foreign countries.
 Now don't deny it because 60 Minutes and Nightline and the
 nation's newspapers have investigated this very carefully.
    (Laughter.)
    When are you going to stop using our tax dollars to shut
 down American factories and move 'em to foreign countries
 and throw Americans out of work?
    BRUNO: Vice President Quayle.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Senator, don't always believe what 
  you see on television.
    (Applause.)
    Let me tell you: the media have been wrong before. We
 have never subsidized any country--or any company to move
 from the US to Latin America. You know full well the
 Caribbean Basin Initiative, you've supported that.
    SENATOR GORE: No.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: That is a program there--
    SENATOR GORE: I voted against it.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: You voted for it and your record-- 
    SENATOR GORE: No.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Okay. Well, we'll--we'll have a
 lot of interesting debate after this debate. Our people will
 be glad to furnish the press, if they're interested, in
 Senator Gore's voting record on the Caribbean Basin
 Initiative. But let's talk--you know, you keep talking about
 trickle-down economics and all this stuff, about the worst
 economy since Hoover. It is a bad economy. It's a tough
 economy. The question isn't--it's now who you're going to 
 blame; what are you going to do about it? Your proposal it
 so raise $150 billion in taxes. To raise $220 billion in new
 spending.
    SENATOR GORE: No.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: How is raising taxes going to help
 small business? How is raising taxes going to help the
 farmer? How is raising taxes going to help the consumer in
 America? I submit to you that raising taxes will make
 matters much, much worse.
    (Applause.) 
    BRUNO: Admiral. We now throw it open for discussion.
 Admiral Stockdale, it's your turn to start the discussion.
    STOCKDALE: Well, we've got to re--we've got to clean out
 the barn, if I may quote my boss, and start getting this
 investment money on the street so we can get, and encourage
 entrepreneurs to build factories. We--the program is out
 there. It's a put-together thing that requires some
 sacrifice, but not excessive, and we are willing to move
 forward in--on a 5-year clip to put us back where we can 
 start over and get--get this nation straightened out.
    BRUNO: Senator Gore, getting people back to work.
    SENATOR GORE: Well, the difference between the Perot-
  Stockdale plan and the Clinton-Gore plan is that Ross
 Perot's plan concentrates almost exclusively on balancing
 the budget and reducing the budget deficit, and the danger
 is that if that is the only goal it could throw our nation
 back into an even worse recession.
    Bill Clinton and I have a detailed 5-year budget plan to
 create good jobs, cut the budget deficit in half, and 
 eliminate the investment deficit in order to get our economy
 moving forward again. We have a $20-billion infrastructure
 fund to create a nationwide network of high-speed rail, for
 example, and what are called information superhighways to
 open up a whole universe of knowledge for our young people
 and to help our universities and companies that rely on new
 advances in the information revolution. We also have tax
 incentives for investment in job-creating activities, not
 the kind of encouragement for short-term rip-offs like the
 proposal that we have had from George 
 Bush.
    But I want to return and say one more time: you have used
 our tax dollars to subsidize the recruitment of US companies
 to move overseas and throw Americans out of work. In
 Decaturville, Tennessee, not very far from my home, a
 factory was shut down right there when they were solicited
 by officials paid with US taxpayers' money, and then the
 replacement workers in a foreign country were trained with
 our tax dollars and then their imports were subsidized
 coming back into the US. 
    When are you going to stop that program?
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: We do not have any program that
 encourages companies to close down here and to go and invest
 on foreign soil. That is absolutely outrageous. Of course
 American businesses do have business abroad; we've got
 global competition. We want businesses to expand. Do you
 realize this, Senator, that every job that's overseas
 there's 3 jobs back here to support that.
    But never have we ever, nor would we, support the idea of 
 someone closing down a factory here and moving overseas.
 That's just totally ridiculous.
    SENATOR GORE: It's going on right now; it happened in
 Tennessee, in Decaturville, Tennessee. When George Bush went
 to Nashville, the employees who lost their jobs asked to
 meet with--
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: I want to get back--
    SENATOR GORE: I talked with them. Let me tell you what
 they're feeling. Some of them are in their 50s and 60s. They
 want to know where they're going to get new jobs 
 when their jobs have been destroyed. And there are
 1.4 million manufacturing jobs that have been lost because
 of the policies of you and George Bush. Do you seriously
 believe that we ought to continue the same policies that
 have created the worst economy since the Great Depression?
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: I hope that when you talked to
 those people you said: and the first thing that Bill Clinton
 and I are going to do is to raise $150 billion in new taxes.
    SENATOR GORE: You got that wrong, too.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: And the first--that is part of 
 your plan.
    SENATOR GORE: No, it's not.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: A hundred and fifty billion
 dollars in new taxes. Well, you're going to disavow your
 plan.
    SENATOR GORE: Listen, what we're proposing--
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: You know what you're doing, you
 know what you're doing? You're pulling a Clinton.
    (Laughter)
    And you know what a Clinton is? And you know what Clinton 
 is? A Clinton is, is what he says--he says one thing one day
 and another thing the next day--you try to have both sides
 of the issues. The fact of the matter is that you are
 proposing $150 billion in new taxes.
    SENATOR GORE: No.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: And I hope that you talk to the
 people in Tennessee--
    SENATOR GORE: No, we're not.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: --and told them that--
    SENATOR GORE: You can say it all you want but it doesn't 
 make it true.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: --going to have new taxes. I hope
 you talked to them about the fact that you were going to
 increase spending to $220 billion. I'm sure what you didn't
 talk to them about was about how we're going to reform the
 health care system, like the president wants to do. He wants
 to go out and to reform the health care system so that every
 American will have available to them affordable health
 insurance.
    I'm sure one other thing that you didn't talk to them 
 about, Senator, and that is legal reform, because your
 position on legal reform is the status quo. And yet you talk
 about foreign competition. Why should an American company
 have to spend 15 to 20 times on product liability and
 insurance costs compared to a company in Japan or a company
 in Germany or somewhere else? That's not right. We have
 product liability reform legislation on Capitol Hill. It
 will create jobs. And a Democratic Congress won't pass it.
    (Applause)
    BRUNO: Okay. I think it's time to move on to our next 
 topic. All 3 of you gentlemen have some expertise in defense
 and the armed forces. Vice President Quayle and Senator Gore
 both served on the Senate Armed Services Committee. Admiral
 Stockdale, of course, has a very distinguished military
 career.
    With the end of the Cold War, everyone agrees that there
 are going to be major cuts. They've already started in the
 defense budget. But this country has a long history of
 neglecting its military needs in peace time and then paying
 for it with heavy casualties when we're caught unprepared. 
 How much of a defense cut is safe? What happens to the
 people who are forced to leave the military services, or if
 they lose their jobs because they're working in defense
 industries.
    I think we start with Senator Gore this time.
    SENATOR GORE: Bill Clinton and I support a strong
 national defense. He and I have both fought for change
 within the Democratic Party as well as within the country.
 In the aftermath of the Cold War, the definition of strong
 national defense has obviously changed somewhat. For 
 example, George Bush wants to maintain at least 150,000
 American soldiers in Europe, even though World War II ended
 50 years ago.
    Bill Clinton and I agree with so many military experts
 who believe that it is time for the Europeans, who are so
 much wealthier now and more powerful than they were at the
 end of World War II to start picking up a little more of
 that tab themselves and not rely so exclusively on the US
 taxpayers for the defense of Europe.
    We believe that we can make savings in our defense budget 
 and at the same time, improve our national security.
    Now, for those who are affected by the cutbacks, whether
 they come from George Bush or Bill Clinton and me--the
 difference is, Bill Clinton and I have a defense conversion
 program so that those who won the Cold War will not be left
 out in the cold. We want to put them to work building an
 infrastructure and an economy here in this country for the
 '90's and the next century.
    BRUNO: Vice President Quayle.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: We won the Cold War because we 
 invested in national security. We won the Cold War because
 we invested in our military. We didn't win the Cold--we won
 the Cold War because we invested in national security. We
 won the Cold War because we invested in our military. We
 didn't win the cold--or we won the Cold War because America
 had the political will and made the right decisions. Yes, we
 can make the cuts in defense and we have. Bill Clinton wants
 to cut defense another $60 billion. I'd say to the defense
 workers in California and elsewhere, a $60 billion defense
 cut is going to cut a lot of jobs out. 
    Yes, we are making a conversion and we can go to a civil
 space rather than having defense--or the defense industry.
 Well, let me say this: we would not have won the Cold War if
 we had listened to Senator Gore and his crowd, and had
 supported a nuclear freeze. If you would have supported that
 attitude--if you would have supported that attitude, we
 would not have won the Cold War. We won the Cold War because
 we invested and we went forward.
    (Applause.) 
    BRUNO: Mr.--Admiral Stockdale, please.
    STOCKDALE: Yes, thanks. The numbers, in terms of the
 dollar cuts, as they stand on our plans now, show us almost
 the same as the vice president's. But we'd note that Mr.--
 Governor Clinton's plan is almost twice as much a cut as
 either one of us. I've been through the end of World War II,
 and the surprise beginning of Korea, to see how we--it cost
 us more money because we overcut the defense budget in the
 first place. I don't say that-- 
    (Applause.)
    So I think that should be eyed with great suspicion,
 people that are really kicking the props out from under our
 grand military establishment prematurely.
    Now there's other differences between the Perot approach
 and what we see up here on either side of me, and that has
 to do with we want to focus our interests, economic and
 military, more to the Pacific. We figure that we are
 generally going along with any sort of a troop removal from 
 Europe. So that's still another face of this puzzle.
    BRUNO: Senator Gore, would you like to start the
 discussion period on this topic?
    SENATOR GORE: Yeah, I'd like to respond first to you,
 Admiral Stockdale. Under the details of our 5-year budget
 plan, we do propose more in defense cuts than George Bush
 and Dan Quayle, but only 5 % more.
    Admiral Crowe, who I think was one of your classmates in
 Annapolis--
    STOCKDALE: Oh, yes, I've known him-- 
    SENATOR GORE: --has endorsed--
    STOCKDALE: --50 years.
    SENATOR GORE: --the military portions of our plan, even
 though he was the chairman of the Joint Chiefs under George
 Bush, and John White has endorsed the economic aspects of
 our plan, even though I believe he was the architect of Ross
 Perot's economic plan.
    Now when I heard George Bush say at the convention in
 Houston, that when he heard the phrase "we won the Cold 
 War," it made him wonder who the "we" was. Well, I want to
 tell you, President Bush, the "we" is the people of the US
 of America. This wasn't a partisan victory that came
 suddenly, a few months after you took the oath of office.
 This started with Harry Truman and it was a bipartisan
 effort from the very beginning. George Bush taking credit
 for the Berlin Wall coming down is like the rooster taking
 credit for the sunrise.
    (Applause.)
    And I want to, I want to add--I want to add one other 
 thing, because in the debate a few nights ago, I think
 President Bush made a very serious misstatement of fact in
 response to Ross Perot. It was kind of a little lecture he
 gave to Ross Perot when he said those SS-18s are gone, Ross,
 that's done. He--he reached a deal with Boris Yeltsin to
 completely remove them so we can all sleep safely without
 any fear tonight.
    But you know what? They thought they were going to get
 that deal, but when he took the person in charge of the
 negotiations out of the State Dept and put him in charge of 
 the reelection campaign, the deal unraveled and now there is
 no START II deal at all. In fact there are serious problems.
    Isn't it a fact, Dan, that every single one of those
 SS-18s is still there, in the silos, and under the START I
 treaty, only half of the silos are supposed to be
 dismantled, and there is no deal to get rid of the other
 half?
    Didn't the president make a mistake there?
    BRUNO: Vice President Quayle, please.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: The president does have a
 commitment from Boris Yeltsin to eliminate the SS-18s. That
 is a commitment to--
    SENATOR GORE: Is it an agreement?
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: It is a commitment.
    SENATOR GORE: Oh.
    (Laughter)
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Let's talk about, let's talk
 about--
    SENATOR GORE: Well, he said he'd--
    BRUNO: Let him talk, Senator.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Lighten up here, Al.
    (Laughter and applause)
    BRUNO: Go ahead.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Let's talk about getting
 agreements. You know, the president of the US doesn't just
 negotiate with your friends in Congress; the president of
 the US deals on the international scene. He's got to deal 
 with the president of Russia, he's got to deal with the
 chancellor of Germany, the prime minister of Britain, the
 president of France, the prime minister of Japan--he's got
 to deal with a whole host of leaders around the world. And
 the leaders sit down and they will negotiate, and they will
 come to agreements with people that they trust. And this is
 a fundamental problem with Bill Clinton, is trust and
 character.
    It is not the issue of how he avoided military service
 20-some years ago; it's the fact--it's the fact that he does 
 not tell the truth about it. He first said he didn't get an
 induction notice, then we find out that he did; he said he
 didn't have an ROTC slot, then we find out he did; he said
 he didn't use Senator Fulbright's office for special
 influence, then we find out that he did.
    These are inconsistencies. Bill Clinton has trouble
 telling the truth. And he will have a very difficult time
 dealing with somebody like President Yeltsin or Chancellor
 Kohl or Prime Minister Major or President Mitterrand,
 because truth and integrity are prerequisites to being 
 president of the US.
    (Applause)
    SENATOR GORE: I want to respond to that, I want to
 respond to that. George Bush, in case you've forgotten, Dan,
 said "Read my lips--no new taxes."
    (Laughter and applause)
    And you know what?
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: I didn't think I was going to hear
 that tonight.
    SENATOR GORE: Hold on, hold on, let me finish. 
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Okay.
    SENATOR GORE: He also said he wanted to be the
 environmental president; then he went on to say he wanted to
 be the education president. Then he said that he wouldn't
 raise taxes again--no, never, ever, ever. Then the next day
 his spokesman, Marlin Fitzwater, came out and said that's
 not a pledge. Then 2 weeks ago he said that after the
 election, if you win, then James Baker's going to go back to
 be secretary of state; then a week later, in the debate a 
 few nights ago, he said, no, after the election, if we win,
 James Baker is going to be in charge of domestic policy.
    Which is it, Dan? Is he going to--what's your role in
 this going to be?
    (Laughter and applause)
    BRUNO: Well, we'll have to move on to another topic.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Let me--
    BRUNO: Sorry, Mr. Vice President.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: I don't have time to respond to
 that? 
    BRUNO: You'll get plenty of chance to respond, so don't
 worry.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Okay, you're the moderator. I was
 under the assumption that when the thing is like that that
 you get a chance to respond.
    BRUNO: Well, we ran out of time; according to the
 agreement, it's time to move on. And I want to stick to the
 agreement.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Okay. Well, you got the last word 
 on that, but we'll come back to it.
    BRUNO: But you'll have a chance--I can see what's
 happening here: we throw out the topic and then we drift.
 But that's okay, because I think it's making for a healthy
 exchange.
    (Laughter)
    The only thing I would ask of you--
    SENATOR GORE: I'm enjoying it.
    (Laughter)
    BRUNO: The only thing I would ask of you gentlemen is 
 that when we get to the discussion period, whoever talks
 first be considerate of the others, because you have a
 tendency to filibuster.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Look over there.
    (Laughter)
    BRUNO: Okay, I'm not pointing any fingers. Let's talk
 about the environment--we'll get away from controversy.
    (Laughter)
    Everyone wants a safe and clean environment, but there's
 an ongoing conflict between environmental protection and the 
need for economic growth and jobs. So the point I throw out
 on the table is, how do you resolve this conflict between
 protection of the environment and growth in jobs, and why
 has it taken so long to deal with basic problems, such as
 toxic waste dumps, clean air and clean water?
    And, Vice President Quayle, it's your turn to start
 first.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Hal, that's a false choice. You
 don't have to have a choice between the environment and
 jobs--you can have both. Look at the president's record: 
 clean air legislation passed the Democratic Congress because
 of the leadership of George Bush. It is the most
 comprehensive clean air act in our history. We are firmly
 behind preserving our environment, and we have a good record
 with which to stand. The question comes about: What is going
 to be their position when it comes to the environment? I say
 it's a false choice. You ought to ask somebody in Michigan,
 a UAW worker in Michigan, if they think increasing the CAFE
 standards, the fuel economy standards, to 45 miles a gallon
 is a good idea--300,000 people out of work. You ought to 
 talk to the timber people in the Northwest where they say
 that, well, we can only save the owl, forget about jobs.
    You ought to talk to the timber people in the northwest,
 where they say that--well, we can only save the owl. Forget
 about jobs. You ought to talk to the coal miners. They're
 talking about putting a coal tax on. They're talking about a
 tax on utilities, a tax on gasoline and home heating oil--
 all sorts of taxes.
    No, Hal, the choice isn't the environment and jobs. With
 the right policies--prudent policies--we can have both. 
    (Applause)
    BRUNO: Admiral Stockdale.
    STOCKDALE: I read Senator Gore's book about the
 environment and I don't see how he could possibly pay for
 his proposals in today's economic climate.
    (Applause)
    You know, the Marshall Plan of the environment, and so
 forth.
    And also, I'm told by some experts that the things that 
 he fears most might not be all that dangerous, according to
 some scientists. You know, you can overdo, I'm told,
 environmental cleaning up. If you purify the pond, the water
 lilies die. You know, I love this planet and I want it to
 stay here, but I don't like to have it the private property
 of fanatics that want to overdo this thing.
    (Applause)
    BRUNO: Senator Gore.
    SENATOR GORE: Bill Clinton and I believe we can create
 millions of new jobs by leading the environmental revolution 
 instead of dragging our feet and bringing up the rear.
    You know, Japan and Germany are both opening proclaiming
 to the world now that the biggest new market in the history
 of world business is the market for the new products and
 technologies that foster economic progress without
 environmental destruction.
    Why is the Japanese business organization--the largest
 one they have, the Ki Den Ren (phonetic), arguing for
 tougher environmental standards than those embodied in US
 law? Why is MITI--their trade organization--calling on all 
 Japanese corporations everywhere in the world to exceed by
 as much as possible the environmental standards of every
 country in which they're operating?
    Well, maybe they're just dumb about business competition.
 But maybe they know something that George Bush and Dan
 Quayle don't know--that the future will call for greater
 efficiency and greater environmental efficiency.
    This is an issue that touches my basic values. I'm taught
 in my religious tradition that we are given dominion over
 the Earth, but we're required to be good stewards of the 
 Earth, and that means to take care of it. We're not doing
 that now under the Bush-Quayle policies. They have gutted
 the Clean Air Act. They have broken his pledge to be the
 environmental president. Bill Clinton and I will change
 that.
    (Applause)
    BRUNO: Okay. Discussion period now. Again, leave time for
 each other, please. Vice President Quayle, go ahead.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Well, I'm tempted to yield to
 Admiral Stockdale on this. But I--you know, the fact of the 
 matter is that one of the proposals that Senator Gore has
 suggested is to have the taxpayers of America spend
 $100 billion a year on environmental projects in foreign
 countries--
    SENATOR GORE: That's not true--
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Foreign aid--well, Senator, it's
 in your book. On page 304--
    SENATOR GORE: No, it's not.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: It is there.
    (Applause) 
    It is in your book. You know, Hal, I wanted to bring the
 Gore book tonight, because I figured he was going to pull a
 Bill Clinton on me and he has. Because he's going to disavow
 what's in his book. It's in your book--
    SENATOR GORE: No.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: It comes out to $100 billion of
 foreign aid for environmental projects.
    BRUNO: All right. Let's give him a chance to answer.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Now, how are we going to pay for 
 it? How are we going to pay for an extra $100 billion of the
 taxpayers' money for this?
    SENATOR GORE: Dan, I appreciate you reading my book very
 much, but you've got it wrong.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: No, I've got it right.
    SENATOR GORE: There's no such proposal.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Okay, well, we'll find--
    BRUNO: Let him talk, Mr Vice President. Let the senator
 talk. Go ahead.
    SENATOR GORE: There is no such proposal. What I have 
 called upon is a cooperative effort by the US and Europe and
 Asia to work together in opening up new markets throughout
 the world for the new technologies that are necessary in
 order to reconcile the imperatives of economic progress with
 the imperatives of environmental protection. Take Mexico
 City for an example. They are shutting down factories right
 now, not because of their economy, but because they're
 choking together on the air pollution. They're banning
 automobiles some days of the week.
    Now what they want is not new laser-guided missile 
 systems. What they want are new engines and new factories
 and new products that don't pollute the air and the water,
 but nevertheless allow them to have a decent standard of
 living for their people. Last year 35 % of our exports went
 to developing countries, countries where the population is
 expanding worldwide by as much as one billion people every
 ten years.
    We cannot stick our heads in the sand and pretend that we
 don't face a global environmental crisis, nor should we
 assume that it's going to cost jobs. Quite the contrary. We 
 are going to be able to create jobs as Japan and Germany are
 planning to do right now, if we have the guts to leave.
    Now earlier we heard about the auto industry and the
 timber industry. There have been 250,000 jobs lost in the
 automobile industry during the Reagan-Bush-Quayle years.
 There have been tens of thousands of jobs lost in the timber
 industry. What they like to do is point the finger of blame
 with one hand and hand out pink slips with the other hand.
 They've done a poor job both with the economy and the
 environment. 
    (Applause.)
    It's time for a change.
    (Applause.)
    BRUNO: Admiral Stockdale, you had something you wanted to
 say here?
    STOCKDALE: I know that--I read where Senator Gore's
 mentor had disagree with some of the scientific data that is
 in his book. How do you respond to those criticisms of that
 sort? Do you-- 
  
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Deny it.
    SENATOR GORE: Well--
    (Laughter.)
    STOCKDALE: Do you take this into account?
    (Laughter.)
    SENATOR GORE: No, I--let me respond. Thank you, Admiral,
 for saying that. You're talking about Roger Revelle. His
 family wrote a lengthy letter saying how terribly he had
 been misquoted and had his remarks taken completely out of 
 context just before he died.
    (Laughter.)
    He believed up until the day he died--no, it's true, he
 died last year--
    BRUNO: I'd ask the audience to stop, please.
    SENATOR GORE: --and just before he died, he co- authored
 an article which was--had statements taken completely out of
 context. In fact the vast majority of the world's
 scientists--and they have worked on this extensively--
 believe that we must have an effort to face up to the 
 problems we face with the environment. And if we just stick
 out heads in the sand and pretend that it's not real, we're
 not doing ourselves a favor. Even worse than that, we're
 telling our children and all future generations that we
 weren't willing to face up to this obligation.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Hal, can I--
    SENATOR GORE: I believe that we have a mandate--
    BRUNO: Sure. We've still got time.
    SENATOR GORE: --to try to solve this problem,
 particularly when we can do it while we create jobs in the 
 process.
    BRUNO: Go ahead, Mr Vice President, there's still time.
 Not much, though.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: I know it. We've got to have a
 little equal time here now, Hal. In the book you also
 suggest taxes on, gasoline taxes on utilities, taxes on
 carbon, taxes on timber. There's a whole host of taxes. And
 I don't just--I don't believe raising taxes is the way to
 solve our environmental problems.
    And you talk about the bad situation in the auto 
 industry. You seem to say that the answer is, well, I'll
 just make it that much worse by increasing the CAFE
 standards. Yes, the auto industry is hurting, it's been
 hurting for a long time, and increasing the CAFE standards
 to 45 miles per gallon, like you and Bill Clinton are
 suggesting, will put, as I said, 300,000 people out of work.
    BRUNO: Okay, let's move on now. I would like to remind
 the audience of one thing. Trying to stop you from
 applauding may be a lost cause. I didn't say anything about
 hissing, but I do think it is discourteous, and there's no 
 call for that, and it reflects badly on the candidate you're
 supporting. So let's knock that off.
    Let's go on to health care. Health care protection has
 become a necessity of life in our society, yet millions of
 Americans are not ensured and the cost of medical treatment
 is practically out of control.
    How do you propose to control these costs and how are you
 going to provide access to health care for every American?
    Let's see, whose turn is it to go now?
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: I think it's Admiral Stockdale's. 
    BRUNO: I think it's Admiral Stockdale's turn to go first.
 Go ahead, sir.
    STOCKDALE: Well, we have excellent technical health care,
 but we don't administer it very well, and the escalating
 costs top any other budget danger in the--on the horizon, I
 think. And what Mr Perot has suggested is that we try to re-
 -to look at the incentives, the incentives that are in our
 current way of doing business, are what are killing us.
 There's-- there's no incentive for a hypochondriac not to go 
 to the--to Medicare every day. There is no incentive for a
 doctor to curtail the expensive tests because he's under
 threat of malpractice lawyers.
    And so we--we just have a web of wrong-way incentives
 that has to be changed by some people who are in the medical
 profession and some other crafty people who know how to
 write contracts to change incentives or get--get the--the
 incentives situation under control.
    BRUNO: Senator Gore.
    SENATOR GORE: Bill Clinton and I believe that if a 
 criminal has the right to a lawyer, every American family
 ought to have the right to see a doctor of their own
 choosing when they need to see a doctor. There are almost
 40 million Americans who work full time today and yet have
 no health insurance whatsoever. We are proposing to change
 that, not with a government-run plan, not with new taxes,
 but with a new approach called managed competition.
    We are going to provide a standard health insurance
 package provided by private insurance companies and
 eliminate the duplication and red tape, and overlap, and 
 we're going to have cost controls to eliminate the
 unnecessary procedures that are costing so much money today.
    There was a bipartisan commission evenly divided between
 Republicans and Democrats who looked at our plan and the
 Bush-Quayle proposal. They said ours will save tens of
 billions of dollars and cover every American. The Bush
 proposal, by contrast, will cost us tens of billions and
 still leave Americans uninsured.
    But what I want to know is, why has George Bush waited
 for 3 and a half years during this health insurance crisis 
 before finally coming out with a proposal, just before the
 election, and he still hasn't introduced it in Congress. Why
 the long wait, Dan?
    BRUNO: Mr Vice President.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Hal, President Bush has had his
 health care reform agenda on Capitol Hill for 8 months. He's
 had parts of it up there for years. You talk about
 increasing costs that the president has had on Capitol Hill-
 - medical malpractice reform legislation--for several years.
 Defensive medicine and health care today cost $20.7 
 billion. Defense medicine defined as testing and treatment
 that is only necessary in case of a law suit. Wouldn't that
 be nice to take $20.7 billion that we're putting into our
 legal system and put it to preventive health care or women's
 health care or something else besides trial lawyers?
    But no--you don't want to reform the health care system
 to drive down costs through medical malpractice. What you're
 doing--you are talking about a government program. Your
 program is to ration health care. You said in your statement
 to see a doctor when you want to see a doctor. When you 
 start rationing health care there's going to be a waiting
 line to see a doctor unless it's an emergency.
    Remember when we rationed energy in this country? Waiting
 lines at the gasoline stations. The same thing would happen
 when you ration health care. The president's proposal deals
 with tax credits, deductions and purchasing health care in
 the private sector and making health care affordable and
 available to every single American.
    BRUNO: Admiral Stockdale, would you like to start the
 discussion period? 
    STOCKDALE: Well, I'm out of ammunition on this--
    SENATOR GORE: Well, let me talk then because I've got a
 couple of things that I want to say.
    BRUNO: Go ahead, Senator.
    SENATOR GORE: We still didn't get an answer to the
 question of why George Bush waited for 3 and a half years--
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: He didn't wait 3 and a half years.
    SENATOR GORE: --during the national--
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: I did answer the question. 
    SENATOR GORE: --health insurance crisis before he even
 made a proposal. And it still hasn't been submitted to
 Congress in the form of legislation. I also want to respond
 to the question about malpractice. Do you know which state
 has the lowest malpractice premiums in the entire country?
 Bill Clinton's Arkansas does--partly because he has passed
 reform measures limiting the time during which malpractice
 suits can be filed. In fact, tort claims generally have
 fallen 10 % under Bill Clinton there. 
    But you know, that's not the reason for this health
 insurance crisis. The reason is, we've had absolutely no
 leadership. Let me tell you about a friend of mine named
 Mitch Philpot from Marietta, Georgia--not far from here--who
 Tipper and I met with his family in Johns Hopkins Hospital.
 Their son, Brett, was in the bed next to our son and they
 couldn't pay their medical bills. They used to live in
 Atlanta, but they lost their house. And while they were
 there, both Mitch and his wife lost their jobs because they 
 could not get unpaid leave.
    We pass legislation to give family leave under
 circumstances like that, exempting small business. How can
 you talk about family values, Dan, and twice veto the Family
 Medical Leave Act?
    (Applause)
    BRUNO: Mr Vice President.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Pass our Family Leave Act, because
 it goes to small businesses where the major problem is. Your
 proposal excluded small business. That's the problem. 
    Now, let me talk about health care and--
    SENATOR GORE: Did you require it? Did you require it?
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: My turn--
    SENATOR GORE: Did you require (inaudible)--
    (Simultaneous conversation)
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: My turn.
    SENATOR GORE: It's a free discussion.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Take a breath, Al. Inhale.
    SENATOR GORE: It's a free discussion. 
     (Applause)
    Did you require family leave in that legislation? Yes or
 no?
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: We offered incentives to small
 businesses. Yes or no--
    SENATOR GORE: That's a no, isn't it?
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Was small business exempted under
 your proposal?
    SENATOR GORE: Yes. 
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Yes. And that's where the biggest
 problem is--
    SENATOR GORE: Did you require it of anyone?
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: I'm going to get back to the topic
 again--
    SENATOR GORE: Did you require it of anyone?
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: --because he obviously doesn't
 want to talk about health insurance or health care, which
 you address. I was absolutely--I shouldn't say that--another 
 Clinton. You pulled another Clinton on me because here you
 go again. Medical malpractice legislation has been before
 the Congress of the US and you tried to convince the
 American people is for tort reform? The biggest campaign
 contributors to your campaign are the trial lawyers of
 America.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE (continuing): We have a letter--and
 we're going to release it again to the media, if the media
 is interested--where the head of the trial lawyers of
 Arkansas said that Bill Clinton was basically in their back
 pocket, that Bill Clinton has always opposed tort reform of
 any kind. It's in the letter, we have it, we'll make it
 available-- because Bill Clinton is not for tort reform.
    I'd like to know where Bill Clinton stands on health
 insurance. When he was campaigning in New Hampshire, he said
 I am for the pay-or-play health insurance. Pay or play,
 that's a 7 to 9 % payroll tax on every worker in America
 that participates in this program.
    SENATOR GORE: Can I respond?
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: And then, all of a sudden, this
 summer he says, oh, I'm not for a pay or play. Here we go
 again. Bill Clinton, one day he's for pay or play, the next
 day he's against pay or play. He does it in education. He
 writes Polly Williams, a Democrat state legislator in 
 Milwaukee, Wisconsin, saying I'm for choice in education;
 then he goes to the NEA teachers union and says, sorry, I'm
 not for choice in education because you won't let me be for
 choice in education.
    One time Bill Clinton says term limits--we ought to limit
 terms, it's ridiculous that a member of Congress can serve
 for 30, 40, 50 years, and you limit the terms of the
 president-- but that's another subject.
    SENATOR GORE: We're fixing to limit one.
    (Laughter) 
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: It's not going to be mine; it's
 going to be people like you and Kennedy and Metzenbaum and
 George Mitchell and the rest of that Democratic Congress on
 Capitol Hill--that's who we're talking about.
    (Applause)
    And that's who the American people--as you well know,
 you've got term limits for a president, you don't have term
 limits for Congress, and I think it's absolutely ridiculous
 that we don't. 
    SENATOR GORE: I want to respond to some of this.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Here goes Bill Clinton again: he
 says, well, term limits, that's an interesting idea, I think
 I might be in favor of that. Then his Democratic friends in
 Congress say, no, Bill, you can't be for that.
    Bill Clinton has trouble telling the truth.
    SENATOR GORE: I want to respond, if I might.
    BRUNO: Go ahead, Senator, quickly.
    SENATOR GORE: You know, in response to my question before 
 that long laundry list, he said that they had their own
 family leave proposal. It was just like the proposal of your
 party back when Social Security was first proposed. You
 said: we're for it as long as it's voluntary. Same with
 Medicare. You said: we're for it so long as it's voluntary.
 Civil rights--we're for it so long as it's voluntary.
    BRUNO: Senator, I'm going to have to ask you to wrap this
 one up.
    SENATOR GORE: Family leave is important enough to be
 required. 
    (Applause)
    BRUNO: Okay, thanks. Coming out of health care, again
 trying to avoid controversy, let's talk about the abortion
 debate.
    (Laughter)
    Abortion rights has been a bitter controversy in this
 country for almost 20 years. It's been heightened by the
 recent Supreme Court decisions. So I'll make it very simple
 in this question: Where do each of you stand on the issue? 
 What actions will your president's administration take on
 the abortion question? Will it be a factor in the
 appointment of federal judges, especially to the Supreme
 Court? And I believe that Senator Gore goes first.
    SENATOR GORE: Bill Clinton and I support the right of a
 woman to choose.
    (Applause)
    That doesn't mean we're pro-abortion; in fact, we believe
 there are way too many abortions in this country. And the
 way to reduce them is by reducing the number of unwanted 
 pregnancies, not vetoing family planning legislation the way
 George Bush has consistently done.
    The reason we are pro-choice and in favor of a woman's
 right to privacy is because we believe that during the early
 stages of a pregnancy the government has no business coming
 in and ordering a woman to do what the government thinks is
 best. What Dan Quayle and George Bush and Jerry Falwell and
 Pat Robertson think is the right decision in a given set of
 circumstances is their privilege--but don't have the
 government order a woman to do what they think is the right 
 thing to do.
    We ought to be able to build more common ground among
 those who describe themselves as pro-choice and pro-life in
 efforts to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies.
    But, Dan, you can clear this up very simply by repeating
 after me: I support the right of a woman to choose. Can you
 say that?
    BRUNO: Vice President Quayle, your turn.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: This issue is an issue that
 divides Americans deeply. I happen to be pro-life. I have 
 been pro-life for my 16 years--
    (Applause.)
    --in public life. My objective and the president's
 objective is to try to reduce abortions in this country. We
 have 1.6 million abortions. We have more abortions in
 Washington, DC, than we do live births. Why shouldn't we
 have more reflection upon the issue before abor--the
 decision of abortion is made. I would hope that we would
 agree upon that. Something like a 24-hour waiting period,
 parental notification. 
    I was in Los Angeles recently and I talked to a woman who
 told me that she had an abortion when she was 17 years of
 age. And looking back on that she said it was a mistake. She
 said--she said I wished at that time, that I was going
 through this difficult time, that I had counseling to talk
 about the post-abortion trauma, and talk about adoption
 rather than abortion. Because if I had had that discussion,
 I would have had the child. Let's not forget that every
 abortion stops a beating heart. I think we have far too many 
 abortions in this country, in this country of ours.
    BRUNO: Admiral Stockdale.
    STOCKDALE: I believe that a woman owns her body and what
 she does with it is her own business, period.
    (Applause.)
    Period.
    BRUNO: That's it?
    (Applause.)
    STOCKDALE: I don't--I, too, abhor abortions, but I don't
 think they should be made illegal, and I don't--and I don't 
 think it's a political issue. I think it's a privacy issue.
    (Applause.)
    BRUNO: You caught me by surprise. Let's go ahead with the
 discussion of this issue. Senator Gore.
    SENATOR GORE: Well, you notice in his response, that Dan
 did not say I support the right of a woman to choose. That
 is because he and George Bush have turned over their party
 to Pat Buchanan and Phyllis Schlafly, who have ordered them
 to endorse a platform which makes all abortions illegal
 under any circumstances, regardless of what has led to that 
 decision by a woman.
    Even in cases of rape and incest, their platform requires
 that a woman be penalized, that she not be allowed to make a
 choice, if she believes, in consultation with her family,
 her doctor, and others, whoever she chooses, that she wants
 to have an abortion after rape, or incest. They make it
 completely--
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Senator, do you support a 24-hour
 waiting period?
    SENATOR GORE: --illegal under any of those circumstances. 
    Now they want to waffle around--
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Do you support a 24-hour waiting
 period?
    SENATOR GORE: Let me finish this, briefly. Now--now you
 want to waffle around on it and give the impression that
 maybe you don't really mean what you say. But again, you can
 clear it up by simply repeating I support the right of a
 woman to choose. Say it.
    BRUNO: Let him say it himself. Let him say his own words. 
 Go ahead, Mr Vice President.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Thank you. Talk about waffling
 around. This issue is a very important issue. It has been
 debated throughout your public life and throughout my public
 life, and one thing that I don't think that it is wise to
 do, and that is to change your position.
    At one time, and most of the time in the House of
 Representatives, you had a pro-life position.
    SENATOR GORE: That's simply not true.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: In 1987, you wrote a letter, and 
 we'll pass this out to the media--
    SENATOR GORE: That is simply not true.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: You wrote a letter saying that you
 oppose taxpayer funding of abortion. Bill Clinton has the
 same type of a record.
    SENATOR GORE: In some circumstances.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: You're going to qualify it now.
    SENATOR GORE: And I still do.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: And Bill Clinton, when he was
 governor of Arkansas, also worked with the Right to Life 
 people and supported Right to Life positions and now he has
 changed. Talk about waffling around. This is the typical
 type of Clinton response. Even on the issue like abortion.
 He's on both sides of the issue.
    Take the NAFTA agreement--
    SENATOR GORE: Well, wait--
    BRUNO: Let's stick with the question, Mr Vice President.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: How long did he have--
    SENATOR GORE: I know you want to change the subject, Dan,
 but let's stay on this one for a while. 
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: How long did he have to wait-- or
 how quickly did he change his position on education? He
 changes his position all the time.
    SENATOR GORE: Let's stay with this issue for a while.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Bill Clinton--Bill Clinton has
 trouble telling the truth. 3 words he fears most in the
 English language.
    BRUNO: Does anybody have any view about the appointment
 of judges on this? 
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Tell the truth.
    SENATOR GORE: Yeah, I want to talk about this, because
 the question was not about free trade or education. The
 question--
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Talk about waffling. You're the
 one who brought up the--
    SENATOR GORE: Now, I let you talk.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: --issue of waffling. He's waffled
 on the abortion issue. 
    SENATOR GORE: I let you talk. Let me talk now. It's going
 to be a long evening if you're like this, now.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Oh, no, it's not--
    SENATOR GORE: Don't change the subject--
    BRUNO: Let's get on with it. Gentlemen, let's get on with
 it.
    SENATOR GORE: Don't change the subject--
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Well, answer my questions, then.
    SENATOR GORE: What you have done-- 
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Answer my questions. On the 24
 hour waiting period--do you support that?
    SENATOR GORE: I have had the same position--
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Do you support that?
    SENATOR GORE: I have had the same position on abortion in
 favor of a woman's right to choose. Do you support a woman's
 right to choose--
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Do you support a 24 hour waiting
 period to have-- 
    SENATOR GORE: You're still avoiding--
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: How about avoiding the question?
    SENATOR GORE: --the question. Now, wait a minute. Let me
 tell you why this is so important. There are millions of
 women in this country who passionately believe in the right
 of a woman to privacy. And they want to stack the Supreme
 Court with justices who will take away the right to privacy.
 Make no mistake about it. That is their agenda--
    (Applause) 
    And if you support them, don't be surprised if that is
 exactly what they want to do and that is why Dan Quayle
 refuses to say this evening that he supports the right of a
 woman to choose.
    I agree with Admiral Stockdale and the vast majority of
 Democrats and Republicans in this country. You know, one of
 the reasons so many Republicans are supporting the Clinton-
 Gore ticket is because they've turned over the party to this
 right wing extremist group which takes positions on issues 
 like abortion that don't even allow exceptions for rape and
 incest.
    BRUNO: Senator--
    SENATOR GORE: Again, can't you just say you support the
 right of a woman to choose?
    BRUNO: Could we give Admiral Stockdale a chance to jump
 in here if he wants to, if he dares to.
    STOCKDALE: I would like to get in--I feel like I'm an
 observer at a pingpong game, where they're talking about
 well, you know, they're expert professional politicians that 
 massage these intricate plots and know every nuance to 'em.
 And meantime, we're facing a desperate situation in our
 economy. I've seen the cost of living double in my lifetime.
 A new granddaughter was born in my family--my granddaughter-
 -3 weeks ago. And according to the statistics that we have--
 that is, the Perot group--the chances of her seeing a
 doubling of the standard of living are nil. In fact, her
 children will be dead before another--this standard of
 living is doubled. So what the heck! Let's get on with
 talking about something substantive. 
    (Applause)
    BRUNO: All right. Mr Vice President, you'll have a chance
 to--
    (Applause)
    You'll have a chance in the closing statements.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: We need to get on--
    BRUNO: No, let's move on to another topic.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Just 15 seconds to respond.
    SENATOR GORE: Well, can I have 15 seconds also? 
    BRUNO: No, let's move on, gentlemen.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: I'll tell you what. If--
    BRUNO: Let's not--we're not horse trading. We're having a
 debate. Let's go on. Let's talk about the cities. Because
 that's where a majority of Americans live, in urban areas,
 and they're facing a financial and social crisis. They've
 lost sources of tax revenue. The aid that once came from the
 federal and state governments has been drastically cut.
 There's an epidemic of drugs, crime and violence. Their 
 streets, the schools are like war zones. It's becoming
 increasingly difficult to pay for public education, for
 transportation, for police and fire protection, the basic
 services that local government must provide.
    Now, everybody says, talks about enterprise zones, that
 may be part of the solution, but what else are your
 administrations really going to be willing to do to help the
 cities?
    Vice President Quayle, it's your turn to go first.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Well, Hal, enterprise zones are 
 important and it's an idea that the president has been
 pushing, and there's been very strong reluctance on, with
 the Democratic Congress. We'll continue to push it.
    We also want, Hal, to have home ownership. I was at a
 housing sub--a housing project in San Francisco several
 months ago and met with people that were trying to reclaim
 their neighborhood.
    They wanted home ownership. They didn't want handouts.
 And I was with the Democrat mayor of San Francisco who was
 there supporting our idea. But when you look at the cities 
 and you see the problems we have with crime, drugs, lack of
 jobs, I also want to point out one of the fundamental
 problems that we have in American cities and throughout
 America today, and that is the breakdown of the American
 family.
    I know some people laugh about it when I talk about the
 breakdown of the family, but it's true. 6ty % of the kids
 that are born in our major cities today are born out of
 wedlock. We have too many divorces. We have too many fathers
 that aren't assuming their responsibility. The breakdown of 
 the family is a contributing factor to the problems that we
 have in urban America.
    BRUNO: Admiral Stockdale.
    STOCKDALE: I think enterprise zones are good, but I think
 the problem is deeper than that. I think we are--you know,
 when I was--I ran a civilization for several years, a
 civilization of 3 to 4 hundred wonderful men. We had our own
 laws. We had our own, practically our own constitution. And
 I put up--I was the--I was the sovereign for a good bit of
 that. And I tried to analyze human predicaments in that 
 microcosm of life in the--in the world. And I found out that
 when I really got down to putting out do's and don'ts, and
 lots of these included take torture for this and that, and
 this and that, and never take any amnesty, for reasons they
 all understood and went along with. But one of the--we had
 an acronym, BACKUS, and each one of those B-a-c-k was
 something for which you--you had to make them hurt you
 before you did it. Bowing in public, making, making--getting
 on the radio and so forth. But at the end it was US, BACKUS.
 You got the double meaning there. 
    But the US could be called the US, but it was Unity Over
 Self, Loners Make Out. Somehow we're going to have to get
 some love in this country between races, and between rich
 and poor. You have got to have leaders--and they're out
 there--who can do this with their bare hands, with--working
 with, with people on the scene.
    BRUNO: Senator Gore, please.
    SENATOR GORE: George Bush's urban policy has been a tale
 of 2 cities: the best of times for the very wealthy; the 
 worst of times for everyone else. We have seen a decline in
 urban America under the Bush-Quayle administration. Bill
 Clinton and I want to change that, by creating good jobs,
 investing in infrastructure, new programs in job training
 and apprenticeship, welfare reform--to say to a mother with
 young children that if she gets a good job, her children are
 not going to lose their Medicaid benefits; incentives for
 investment in the inner city area, and, yes, enterprise
 zones. Vice President Quayle said they're important, but
 George Bush eliminated them from his urban plan, and then-- 
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Well, that's not true.
    SENATOR GORE: And then, when they were included in a plan
 that the Congress passed,--
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: We have been for enterprise zones-
 -
    SENATOR GORE: --George Bush vetoed the enterprise zone
 law, the law that included them, for one reason: because
 that same bill raised taxes on those making more than
 $200,000 a year. 
    Let's face up to it, Dan: your top priority really, isn't
 it, to make sure that the very wealthy don't have to pay any
 more taxes. We want to cut taxes on middle-income families
 and raise them on those making more than $200,000 a year.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: What plan is that?
    SENATOR GORE: And if we can take our approach, the cities
 will be much better off.
    BRUNO: Let's start the discussion period right here. Go
 ahead. 
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: What plan is that that's just
 going to raise taxes on those making over $200,000 a year?
 You may call that your plan, but everyone knows that you
 simply can't get $150 billion in new taxes by raising the
 marginal tax rate to a top rate of 36 % and only tax those
 making $200,000 a year. It's absolutely ridiculous. The top
 2 % which you refer to, that gets you down to $64,000; then
 you have about a $40-billion shortfall--that gets you down
 to $36,000 a year. Everybody making more than $36,000 a year 
 will have their taxes increased if Bill Clinton is president
 of the US.
    And I don't know how you're going to go to urban America
 and say that raising taxes is good for you. I don't know how
 you're going to go to urban America and say, well, the best
 thing that we can offer is simply to raise taxes again. This
 is nothing more than a tax-and-spend platform. We've seen it
 before. It doesn't work.
    Let me tell you about a story.
    SENATOR GORE: Can I respond to some of that? 
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: I've got a very good example--
    SENATOR GORE: Can I respond to some of that?
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: --when we talk about families
 here, because I was meeting with some former gang members in
 Phoenix and Los Angeles and Albuquerque, New Mexico. And
 when I talked to those former gang members, here's what they
 told why they joined the gang. They said, well, joining a
 gang is like joining a family. I said, joining a family?
 Yes, because the gang offered support, it offered 
 leadership, it offered comfort, it was a way to get ahead.
    Where have we come if joining a gang is like being a
 member of the family?
    BRUNO: Senator Gore, you wanted to respond?
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: And that's why I think that
 families have to be strengthened, and you don't strengthen
 the American family by raising taxes.
    SENATOR GORE: I do want to respond to that.
    BRUNO: Go ahead, Senator, Admiral.
    SENATOR GORE: George Bush and Dan Quayle want to protect 
 the very wealthy. That is the group that has gotten all of
 the tax cuts under the Bush-Quayle administration. Nobody
 here who is middle income has gotten a tax cut because
 middle-income families have had tax increases under Bush and
 Quayle in order to finance the cuts for the very wealthy.
 That's what trickle-down economics is all about. And they
 want to continue it.
    We're proposing to also require foreign corporations to
 pay the same taxes that American corporations do when they
 do business here in the US of America. George Bush has not 
 been willing to enforce the laws and collect those taxes. We
 want to close that loophole and raise more money in that
 way.
    BRUNO: Senator, can we stick to the cities, sir?
    SENATOR GORE: Excuse me?
    BRUNO: Stick to the cities.
    SENATOR GORE: All right. Well, he, he talked about ways
 to raise money to help the cities. What we're proposing is
 to invest in the infrastructure in cities and have targeted
 tax incentives for investment right in inner city areas. The 
 enterprise zones represent a part of our proposal also, and
 strengthening the family through welfare reform. And you
 know the Bush administration has cut out--has vetoed family
 leave, they have cut childhood immunization and college aid.
    If you don't support parents and you don't support
 children, how--how can you say you support families?
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: How about supporting parents and
 the right to choose where their kids go to school, Al?
    (Applause.)
    Do you support that? 
    SENATOR GORE: We--
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Let the parents--let the parents--
    SENATOR GORE: Do you want me to answer?
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: --public or private schools?
    SENATOR GORE: Want me to answer?
    BRUNO: Go ahead.
    SENATOR GORE: We support the public school choice to go
 to any public school of your choice. What we don't support--
  and listen to what they're proposing--to take US taxpayer 
 dollars and subsidize private schools. Now I'm all for
 private schools, but to use taxpayer dollars, when the
 people who get these little vouchers often won't be able to
 afford the private school anyway, and the private school is
 not--
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Al, I think, I think it's
 important--
    SENATOR GORE: --under any obligation to admit them, that
 is a ripoff of the US taxpayer.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: That's important. This is a very- 
 -this is a very important issue. Choice in education is a
 very important issue.
    BRUNO: Let him respond.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: And he said that he was not for
 choosing--giving the parents the right to choose to send
 their children to public schools. But it's okay for the
 wealthy to choose to send their kids to private schools, but
 it's not okay for the middle class and the working poor to
 choose where they want to send their kids to school.
    I think that it's time that all parents in America have a 
 right to choose where they send their kids to school to get
 an education.
    (Applause.)
    BRUNO: Admiral Stockdale, would you like to have the last
 word in this period?
    STOCKDALE: I--I come down on the side of freedom of
 school choice. The--and there's a lot of misunderstandings
 that I've heard here tonight, that I may have the answer to.
 The-- starting at, you know, for the last, almost a decade,
 we've worried about our schools officially through 
 Washington, and the president had a meeting of all the
 governors, and then they tried the conventional fixes for
 schools, that is, to increase the certification of--
 requirements for the teachers, to lengthen the school day,
 to lengthen the school year and nothing--this is a very
 brief overview of the thing--but nothing happened. And it's
 time to change the school's structure. In schools,
 bureaucracy is bad and autonomy is good. The only good
 schools--
    (Applause.) 
    --we have are those run by talented principals and
 devoted teachers, and they're running their own show. How
 many times have I thrived? You know, the best thing I had
 when I ran that civilization, it succeeded, and it's a
 landmark. The best thing I had going for me was I had no
 contact with Washington for all those years.
    (Applause.)
    SENATOR GORE: Could I respond?
    BRUNO: We have to go on. What I'm about to say doesn't 
 apply to the debate tonight; it applies to the campaign
 that's been going on outside this auditorium. With 3 weeks
 to go, this campaign has at times been very ugly, with the
 tone being set by personal negative attacks.
    As candidates, how does it look from your viewpoint? And
 are these tactics really necessary? Admiral Stockdale--it's
 your turn to go first.
 
    STOCKDALE: You know, I didn't have my hearing aid turned
 on. Tell me again. 
    (Laughter)
    BRUNO: I'm sorry, sir. I was saying that at times this
 campaign has been very ugly with personal negative attacks.
 As a candidate, how does it look from where you are and are
 these tactics really necessary?
    STOCKDALE: Nasty attacks--well, I think there is a case
 to be made for putting emphasis on character over these
 issues that we've been batting back and forth and have a
 life of their own. Sure, you have to know where you're going 
 with your government, but character is the big variable in
 the success. Character of the leads is the big variable in
 the success--long term success--of an administration.
    I went to a friend of mine in New York some years ago and
 he was a president of a major TV network and he said, you
 know, I think we have messed up this whole--this election
 process--it was an election year--by stressing that--putting
 out the dogma that issues are the thing to talk about, not
 character.
    He said, I felt so strongly about this, I went back and 
 read the Lincoln-Douglas debates. Read those debates. How do
 they come down? Douglas is all character. He knows all of
 the little stinky numbers these guys do. Abraham Lincoln had
 character. Thank God we got the right president in the Civil
 War.
    But that is a question that is a valid one, and you know,
 I would like to brag about the character of my boss.
    BRUNO: Okay, Senator Gore.
    SENATOR GORE: This election is about the future of our
 country, not about personal attacks against one candidate or 
 another. Our nation is in trouble and it is appalling to me
 that with 10 million Americans out work, with the rest
 working harder for less money than they did 4 years ago,
 with the loss of 1.4 million manufacturing jobs in our
 nation, with the health care crisis, a crisis of crime and
 drugs and AIDS, substandard education, that George Bush
 would constantly try to level personal attacks at his
 opponent.
    Now, this, of course, just reached a new low last week
 when he resorted to a classic McCarthyite technique of 
 trying to smear Bill Clinton over a trip that he took as a
 student along with lots of other Rhodes Scholars who were
 invited to go to Russia. It's a classic McCarthyite smear
 technique. I think the president of the US ought to
 apologize. I think that he insulted the intelligence of the
 American people and I'm awful proud that the American people
 rejected that tactic so overwhelmingly that he decided he
 had made a mistake. Do you think it was a mistake, too, Dan?
    BRUNO: Okay. Vice President Quayle.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Let me answer the question. 
    BRUNO: Go ahead.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Hal, you said--and I wrote it down
 here--"personal negative attacks." (Laughs) Has anyone been
 reading my press clippings for the last 4 years?
    (Applause)
    But I happen to--I agree with one thing on--with Senator
 Gore, and that is that we ought to look to the future, and
 the future is, who's going to be the next president of the
 US. And is it a negative attack and a personal attack to 
 point out that Bill Clinton has trouble telling the truth?
 He said that he didn't even demonstrate--he told the people
 in Arkansas in 1978. Then we find out he organized
 demonstrations. You know, I don't care whether he
 demonstrated or didn't demonstrate. The fact--the question
 is, tell the truth. Just tell us the truth.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE (continuing): Today, Bill Clinton--
 excuse me--yesterday in Philadelphia on a radio show,
 yesterday on a radio show, he attacked--Admiral, he attacks
 Ross Perot saying the media is giving Ross Perot a free
 ride. The press asked him when the klieg lights are on, said
 what do you mean by Ross Perot getting a free ride? He says
 I didn't say that at all.
    I mean, you can't have it both ways. No, I don't think
 that is a personal attack. What I find troubling with Bill
 Clinton is he can't tell the truth. You cannot lead this
 great country of ours by misleading the people.
    (Applause)
    BRUNO: All right, gentlemen, the control room advises me
 that in order to have time for your closing statements,
 which we certainly want, there simply is not going to be
 time for a discussion period on this particular topic.
    So let's go to the closing statements. You have 2 minutes
 each. And we'll start with Admiral Stockdale. 
    STOCKDALE: I think the best justification for getting
 Ross Perot in the race again to say is that we're seeing
 this kind of chit-chat back and forth about issues that
 don't concentrate on where our grandchildren--the living
 standards of our children and grandchildren. He is, as I
 have read in more than one article, a revolutionary; he's
 got plans out there that are going to double the speed at
 which this budget problem is being cared for. It was asked
 how, if we would squeeze down so fast that we would strangle 
 the economy in the process. That is an art, to follow all
 those variables and know when to let up and to nurse this
 economy back together with pulls and pushes.
    And there's no better man in the world to do that than
 that old artist, Ross Perot. And so I think that my closing
 statement is that I think I'm in a room with people that
 aren't the life of reality. The US is in deep trouble. We've
 got to have somebody that can get up there and bring out the
 firehoses and get it stopped, and that's what we're about in
 the Perot campaign. 
    BRUNO: Thank you.
    (Applause.)
    Senator Gore, your closing statement, sir.
    SENATOR GORE: Three weeks from today, our nation will
 make a fateful decision. We can continue traveling the road
 we have been on, which has led to higher unemployment and
 worse economic times, or we can reach out for change. If we
 choose change, it will require us to reach down inside
 ourselves to find the courage to take a new direction. 
    Sometimes it seems deceptively easy to continue with old
 habits even when they're no longer good for us. Trickle-down
 economics simply does not work. We have had an increase in
 all of the things that should be decreasing. Everything that
 should have been increasing has been going down. We have got
 to change direction.
    Bill Clinton offers a new approach. He has been named by
 the other 49 governors, Republicans and Democrats alike, as
 the best and most effective governor in the entire US of 
 America.
    He's moved 17,000 people off the welfare rolls and on to
 payrolls. He has introduced innovations in health care and
 education, and again, he has led the nation for the last
 2 years in a row in the creation of jobs in the private
 sector.
    Isn't it time for a new approach, a new generation of
 ideas and leadership, to put our nation's people first and
 to get our economy moving again?
    We simply cannot stand to continue with this failed 
 approach that is no good for us. Ultimately, it is a choice
 between hope and fear, a choice between the future and the
 past. It is time to reach out for a better nation. We are
 bigger than George Bush has told us we are, as a nation, and
 we have a much brighter future.
    Give us a chance. With your help, we'll change this
 country and we can't wait to get started.
    (Applause.)
    BRUNO: Vice President Quayle.
    VICE PRESIDENT QUAYLE: Thank you, Hal. I'd like to use 
 this closing statement to talk to you about a few people
 that I have met in these last 4 years. I think of a woman in
 Chicago when I was talking to parents about education where
 she stood up and said I'm sick and tired of these schools in
 this city being nothing but a factory for failure. And
 that's why we support choice in education.
    I was in Beaumont, Texas, and met with small business
 people, and they wanted to reform the civil justice system
 because they think our legal system costs too much and
 there's too much of a delay in getting an answer. 
    I was in Middletown, Ohio, talking to a welfare woman,
 where she said I want to go back to work and I had a job
 offered to me but I'm not going to take it because I have
 2 children at home and the job that is offered to me doesn't
 have health insurance. Under President Bush's health care
 reform package that woman won't have to make a choice about
 going back to work or health care for her children, because
 she'll have both.
    I was in Vilnius, Lithuania, Independence Square, 
 speaking to 10,000 people in the middle of winter. Hundreds
 of people came up to me and said: God bless America.
    Yes, in the next 4 years, as I said, somewhere, some
 time, there's going to be a crisis, and you need to have a
 president that is qualified, has the experience, and has
 been tested. Not one time during this evening, during 90
 minutes, did Al Gore tell us why Bill Clinton is qualified
 to be president. He never answered my charges that Bill
 Clinton has trouble telling the truth.
    The choice is yours. The American people should demand 
 that their president tell the truth. Do you really believe--
 do you really believe Bill Clinton will tell the truth? And
 do you, do you trust Bill Clinton to be your president?
    (Applause)
    BRUNO: That concludes this vice presidential debate. I'd
 like to thank Vice President Quayle, Senator Gore, Admiral
 Stockdale for being participants.
    The next presidential debate is scheduled for this
 Thursday at 9:00 PM Eastern Time at the University of
 Richmond in Richmond, Virginia. To all of our viewers and
 listeners, thank you and good night.
    (Applause)
   END OF DEBATE
 

 
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