# Do you see in your dreams?

Category: Let's talk

## Post 1 by Remy (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Thursday, 21-Aug-2014 16:18:56

Hello everyone. Discussion is great, but this question is aimed primarily at those who have been completely blind since birth. I've always been curious: do you see anything at all in your dreams? How do dreams work for you.

## Post 2 by Voyager (I just keep on posting!) on Thursday, 21-Aug-2014 18:20:12

I've been completely blind since birth, and no, I don't see in my dreams. Do you see in ultraviolet in your dreams?
Dreams are constructed from experiences we've had in the real world. I dream in all the senses that are available to me - hearing, touch, echolocation, smell etc.

## Post 3 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Thursday, 21-Aug-2014 18:55:26

I agree with the last post. This is how I experience dreams. I used to have background music to some of them when I was younger, but not anymore.
I did hear an interesting story about this though. A guy I know went blind and got a guide dog. He had a dream where he was walking down the street with his dog, but could see. It was a familiar street, and he saw all the street signs, stores, everything. Everything, except his dog. He could see down his arm but there was black where the dog should have been. But the dog was there in his dream.
I found that story fascinating when he told it to me.

## Post 4 by Remy (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Thursday, 21-Aug-2014 19:56:58

Thank you both for your answers. I ask this because for a novel I'm writing, I'm researching many of the theories and science surrounding dreams. One thing I came across was that people who are blind from birth do not see in dreams. I wanted to know if that was actually true. It makes sense if dreams are formed from owr experiences, but given much of the lore surrounding them, I thought I'd ask.

## Post 5 by Blue Velvet (I've got the platinum golden silver bronze poster award.) on Thursday, 21-Aug-2014 21:15:46

I used to have quite a bit of vision, and even though I now have no vision left except for a tiny bit of light perception in one eye, I still see in my dreams. If I dream about a person I actually knew when I could see, I can see their face in my dreams as well as I could ever see them. But if I dream about a person I have only known since losing my vision or someone I don't even know in real life, then their face and other features are just blurs in my dreams.
I can still read print in my dreams, see colors, see people and objects around me, etc. I can also smell, feel, and hear in my dreams. If I dream about food, I can even taste it.

## Post 6 by Imprecator (The Zone's Spelling Nazi) on Thursday, 21-Aug-2014 21:54:36

Nope. I hear perfectly in my dreams. But I can't usually taste or smell.

## Post 7 by Godzilla-On-Toast (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 22-Aug-2014 3:41:26

Nope, never had eyesight so can't see in them, let alone even remember them.

## Post 8 by louisa (move over school!) on Friday, 22-Aug-2014 6:41:35

No, I don't see in my dreams, or let me rather say, sight just doesn't count. What I mean is, it is the story line and the emotion of the dream that counts. So, if I drempt that I was in a garden, I would smell the flowers, and the place would have a spacial feeling about it, and I would understand it in that way. At least that is how it works for me.

## Post 9 by blbobby (Ooo you're gona like this!) on Friday, 22-Aug-2014 10:31:57

Interesting topic. Thanks for posting it.
I never have seen, either in life or my dreams.
Bob

## Post 10 by chelslicious (like it or not, I'm gonna say what I mean. all the time.) on Friday, 22-Aug-2014 12:17:45

I've been blind since birth, and I do see in my dreams.
in fact, before reading what others have said here, I thought that was a common thing, as I know plenty of [people who experience the same thing as I do.

## Post 11 by Voyager (I just keep on posting!) on Friday, 22-Aug-2014 12:28:58

How does it work? Do you see color? If you see color, do you remember it when you're awake or do you forget what it was like?

## Post 12 by forereel (Just posting.) on Friday, 22-Aug-2014 13:27:47

I am like Blue, I can see in my dreams, but not all dreams are seeing dreams.
You asked about people that were blind from birth, so I didn't post until she did.
Now, a person that I've met after being blind, I do something give them a visual face based on what I've seen people that have faces that feel like there's would be.
I don't know how accurate that is, but there you go.
I'd also like to know how seeing works for the totally blind from birth?
Please talk about that, and ask the others if you would Chelsea?

## Post 13 by LittleSneezer (The Zone-BBS is my prison, but I like it here.) on Friday, 22-Aug-2014 13:37:33

I have been blind since birth and have never had a sense of smell. I can neither see nor smell in my dreams.

## Post 14 by Blue Velvet (I've got the platinum golden silver bronze poster award.) on Friday, 22-Aug-2014 13:55:32

I would also be interested in hearing more from people who have been totally blind since birth yet can see in their dreams. How do you know what you are seeing? If you've never seen colors, how can you know what colors are in your dreams?

## Post 15 by forereel (Just posting.) on Friday, 22-Aug-2014 14:59:19

Yes, color, motion, depth, movement, just tones of things I'd be interested in knowing.
Like, what would you base the sky and clouds on?
In a dream, when you are walking on the street, and it is day light, the sky is there. No, you don't think about it, "oh, yes, the sky's in my dream" it is just in your dream, or part of the background.
So, I'm interested in this lots.

## Post 16 by Remy (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 22-Aug-2014 15:20:47

That is very interesting, Chelsea. You appear to be the exception here, although it sounds lik eyou know others. I too am curious how it works for you. Dreams are fascinating things, and like with much of the mind, there is still so much we humans still don't know.

## Post 17 by Dave_H (the boringest guy you'll ever know) on Friday, 22-Aug-2014 15:51:06

I'm totally blind since birth and do not see in those few dreams I remember. I hear, feel, and just know things in dreams; no smell or tastes.

## Post 18 by chelslicious (like it or not, I'm gonna say what I mean. all the time.) on Friday, 22-Aug-2014 16:23:46

I know plenty of people, besides myself, who see everything in their dreams.
so, I'm quite surprised to know that others haven't experienced the same thing.
I probably can't be much more descriptive, besides what I've already stated, about the fact I do, indeed, see in my dreams.
I'm not blind, when I dream, so I see things as I imagine a sighted person would see them.
I also still walk with both canes, as I do in my real life.

## Post 19 by forereel (Just posting.) on Friday, 22-Aug-2014 17:45:36

How do you imagine sighted people see? Maybe that will help you describe it.
I'm serious. If a person says they can see in there dreams, but never had sight before, I'd like to know what it's like.

## Post 20 by chelslicious (like it or not, I'm gonna say what I mean. all the time.) on Friday, 22-Aug-2014 18:43:24

I know that there are sometimes differences in the fact that some sighted people see only near-sighted things, or far-sighted things, and others see most, if not all, things.
so, I see everything. I'm not sure how I can make that any clearer to anyone.

## Post 21 by Remy (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 22-Aug-2014 18:47:38

Seems pretty clear to me. in your dreams you have a full range of vision, or what you percieve to be full vision, which pretty much ammounts to the same thing in this case. It's very fascinating.

## Post 22 by chelslicious (like it or not, I'm gonna say what I mean. all the time.) on Friday, 22-Aug-2014 20:27:54

yes, that's exactly right, BG.
I'll add that I of course do feel things, in my dreams, as others have said they do.

## Post 23 by forereel (Just posting.) on Friday, 22-Aug-2014 20:40:36

Smile.

## Post 24 by blbobby (Ooo you're gona like this!) on Saturday, 23-Aug-2014 11:09:26

I think if I ever saw in my dreams, I'd be so freaked out I'd probably go bblind.
&LT;lol>
Bob

## Post 25 by chelslicious (like it or not, I'm gonna say what I mean. all the time.) on Saturday, 23-Aug-2014 13:31:49

there's nothing to be freaked out about, in my opinion.
in fact, I think it's pretty neat that some of us have the ability to see, in our dreams.
in a sense, I'd say that it gives us a taste of what it would be like to live as a non-disabled person.

## Post 26 by forereel (Just posting.) on Saturday, 23-Aug-2014 13:42:54

I wonder how these people perceive life as an abled person?

## Post 27 by Shadow_Cat (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Saturday, 23-Aug-2014 14:10:17

I've been blind since birth, and have never seen in my dreams, either. I have all the senses that are available to me in real life, and perceive things as I do in waking. The thing is, I sometimes do things in my dreams that would require sight, and therefore could not be done in real life. For example, I've driven a car, or a motorcycle, in dreams. I've flown a plane. When I'm walking somewhere, sometimes I have my cane, but often I don't. I sometimes wonder if that's because it's not there, or because I'm so used to having my cane that my brain just doesn't register it? Once or twice, I've had a guide dog in my dreams, even though I haven't actually been a dog handler since 1998.
Chelsea, I hope I'm not repeating a question, but I think maybe the reason people are confused is this. How do you perceive color in your dreams since your brain has never known it? I can't begin to imagine color, even though many sighted friends and family have tried to describe colors to me in a variety of ways. Or does your dream vision have more to do with proximity to things and people than it does color and light?

## Post 28 by Voyager (I just keep on posting!) on Saturday, 23-Aug-2014 14:30:03

I can think of two natural explanations for someone who is blind from birth seeing in their dreams:
First, in dreams many people seem to be aware of things without directly perceiving them. I may know someone is after me without hearing them. I somehow just know where they are and which way I need to go to get away from them. It would make sense to interpret this experience as seeing even if it's nothing like what sighted people perceive. Second, we might have genetic memories of seeing which we normally can't access. I doubt there's any proof for this, but I've wondered why so many little kids have nightmares about monsters they've never seen before. Evolution?

## Post 29 by Remy (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Saturday, 23-Aug-2014 15:52:52

That's a very interesting question, Sister Dawn, and and what Wolf says makes sense. I'm not sure about genetic memory, but it's an interesting theory. But we do just know things in our dreams; like we know the intention, or the identity of a person even without having met them, or without seeing them. As for the idea of children seeing monsters they've never seen, that's a disturbing and interesting question. It happens to too many children to just be mere coincidence. perhaps it is evolution; genetic memory of aeons past. But that would suggest such creatures existed at one time. I don't know much about genetic memory, whether it's fully real, or if it goes back that far. Perhaps it is their imagination intensifying things they've seen or heard of. Or, who knows, maybe there's some substance to what they see. Yeah, I hear some of you scoffing. And perhaps it's all bollucks. But who knows. They say the veil between our reality and the world of spirits is thinner for children. Perhaps it is the third host they see.

## Post 30 by chelslicious (like it or not, I'm gonna say what I mean. all the time.) on Saturday, 23-Aug-2014 16:01:26

I don't know how much clearer I can make myself. cause, just as sighted people will never understand what it's like to be blind, most of you probably wouldn't be able to understand my perspective on this topic, based on the fact it's already so hard for you to comprehend.
however, I'll try to give yet another explanation, to the best of my ability.
when I see in my dreams, I see, as I've stated, the way I've heard sighted people talk about visualizing things.
this means that I'm able to see everything within my field of vision, and that I'm able to recognize people by sight, rather than by hearing their voice, as I do in real life.
I used to have some vision as a kid, but I've never had any vision that was reliable, in any sense.
therefore, I've never been able to actually see, and comprehend, that I was seeing shades of blue, yellow, black, or whatever.
the most I could tell, was that I was seeing a dark color, or a light color. but, even then, the colors would have to be pretty high contrast, for me to be able to distinguish anything.
for example, if light colors were on a dark background, that's the extent of what I could tell. I was unable to see anything more.
so, I say all that to demonstrate the fact that I don't think any of this has any bearing on why I dream the way I do, but someone might find it helpful, in some way.

## Post 31 by chelslicious (like it or not, I'm gonna say what I mean. all the time.) on Saturday, 23-Aug-2014 16:08:26

one thing I forgot to add, is my thoughts about why children dream up monsters/other things they haven't seen.
I agree with what BG said in his last post, about people conjuring up things they see, or hear about, ETC.
although he specifically related his statement to children, we all do that sort of thing.
we watch scary movies, for instance, and, based on the fact something scares the crap out of us, we picture it in our minds, sometimes far differently than it is, in the actual movie.
I'd say that the same goes for the fact I see in my dreams. it's not how things are, in reality, for me, but it's how they are, nonetheless.

## Post 32 by Remy (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Saturday, 23-Aug-2014 17:24:15

That makes sense. it's all about perception. Whether Chelsea sees colors as they truly are, or as she percieves them to be are, in this case, irrelovant. In our dream, we would know the color is blue, or green, even if we can not describe what that actually looks like. It's hard to describe color to someone who can't see it without equating it to something whith that very same color. I mean I could say sky blue is light, which it is, but I don't know how to describe its shade or hugh.

## Post 33 by forereel (Just posting.) on Saturday, 23-Aug-2014 18:04:18

Okay. As someone who has been on both sides I’d say people that have been blind from birth do not see in their dreams.
What they do is perceive things without touching them.
They know people, because as a blind person, I don’t have to actually see a person to know it is that person. People smell different, and feel different.
I don’t mean, feel different, because I’ve touched them, but persona?
Sure, you can move without your cane in your dreams, but it is just like moving in your house as a sighted person in the dark, or a blind person that has never seen.
You can feel objects, hear them, and smell them.
When I see, I can see color. If I am having a dream about walking, I can see the sky is cloudy, or sunny. Clouds move.
The buildings have color, windows, and doors.
I can see things in the distance, a person crossing the street.
This is the same with driving. I don’t feel driving, I see where I’m going.
As to these monsters, you conjure up images from things you’ve seen, so can create a monster, or what you think is scary.
Most times a muster is not a complete picture, but things that scare you.
A hairy hand, monkeys, bears, big people.
I ask the question as to seeing, because I wanted to know if the perception was visual, or feeling and a make up of the other senses.
So, no, I’d say you don’t see, you perceive. If you saw, you’d know what the sky was like, the color.
Lots of other things you have no concept of at all.
Chelsea, you understand what is means to perceive light, so you might see to a point. But as stated, many here that have never experienced perception with there eyes, say no.

## Post 34 by forereel (Just posting.) on Saturday, 23-Aug-2014 18:07:40

Like driving. You can imagine yourself setting in the drivers seat, but if you've never operated a car, I'd love a description of how you drive?
Now, it is possible that we have lived in other lives?

## Post 35 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Saturday, 23-Aug-2014 21:46:05

I think it's different for those of us who have never seen anything, like Wayne says. I was
born with no optic nerves, meaning I never even saw light and dark in utero. Now when I
was in college, I did hallucinogenics a a few times. Even acid couldn't make me see. I
heard the walls breathing and the air conditioner singing Pink Floyd's "Comfortably
Numb," felt the couch vibrating, and even thought the rug was a flying carpet for awhile.
But no flashes of light, no pretty colors, no elaborate designs like my friends were seeing.
If drugs can't make the blind from birth have visual hallucinations, nothing can. Lol. No,
young ones, the above is not a recommendation. Just a narrative.
Honestly, I would be fascinated to know what it's like to be able to perceive light. Most life
forms move towards it, for obvious reasons. But light, the moon, clouds and stars seem
like they must be fascinating to watch. I remember reading about them when stoned, and
trying to take my mind there, with no real success. As a curiosity. But, rationally, there is
no pathway.

## Post 36 by Shadow_Cat (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 24-Aug-2014 2:18:35

Aha, things make more sense now that you say you had some vision when you were young, Chelsea. It may not have been reliable for use, but it did allow your brain to understand at least some concepts like light and dark, and it sounds like at least minimal colors, so now I get it.
Leo, that's true, if drugs can't do it, nothing will. Hahaha! No, I've never tried it, but I've heard plenty of stories of people who have. Thanks for the laugh.

## Post 37 by chelslicious (like it or not, I'm gonna say what I mean. all the time.) on Sunday, 24-Aug-2014 11:47:44

Wayne, I'm glad to know that you feel you know what I'm experiencing, but I assure you, you don't have a clue.
you seem to be certain that I don't actually see things, but that I just perceive things. however, I know exactly what I feel/experience, in my dreams, whether others are able to grasp the concept, themselves.
as I said from the start, others likely wouldn't understand what I was getting at, and your views on what I've shared, are proof of that fact.
Alicia, as much as you think that having some vision allowed me to conceptualize things in some way, I'd argue quite the opposite.
having the vision I used to, did nothing but leave me feeling confused and frustrated, due to the fact it would fluctuate on a daily basis, sometimes several times a day.
I was presented with many more challenges than I deal with now, as someone who's totally blind. and, even that's an understatement.

## Post 38 by forereel (Just posting.) on Sunday, 24-Aug-2014 14:08:13

Where it is true I can't know exactly what you experience, it is also true, that you can't describe what you experiences related to seeing.
If I ask 20 people that see, what the sky looks like, they will tell me about the same comcept.
If I ask 20 blind people what if feels like to be burned, they will tell me basicly the same concept.
But when I ask you how it feels to see, or what you perceive, you can't even describe it not even a little bit.
Because you know what light is like, you have no difficulty describing that, but you couldn't tell me how the sky looks.
That tells me you don't actually see in your dreams, and don't have a concept of what seeing fully is like. Next, how about all the other blind people you claim say the see in dreams, that were blind from birth. Couldn't you ask them what the experience is like and relate this?
The question was ask at a clinical level, so a clinical answer would be great, don't you think?

## Post 39 by Remy (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 24-Aug-2014 15:55:56

Why am I experiencing a feeling of Déjà vu. Must have dreamed about this before.

## Post 40 by chelslicious (like it or not, I'm gonna say what I mean. all the time.) on Sunday, 24-Aug-2014 16:33:45

Wayne, I'm not gonna argue with you. I know what I've said is true for me, and no one can say otherwise, just as I wouldn't tell someone that something they've experienced was invalid, just cause I, personally, haven't experienced whatever it happened to be.
I know the sky is blue, and I also know what the colors of other things are, through hearing people talk about them. so, I do see them as such, in my dreams.

## Post 41 by forereel (Just posting.) on Sunday, 24-Aug-2014 20:41:56

I brought this subject up in public chats.
I was jumped for being a know it all, and picking apart what one member thought was seeing.
I was not picking it apart, just trying to really understand what the person felt they saw in a dream.
Once they described it, I attempted to explain how the perception of seeing actually was, not to pick apart how they thought it was.
There was another sighted user, so I posed the question on, what the sky looked like.
I also ask about seeing cars, and the sidewalk, or being outside.
These things were items the person said they had seen in dreams. Not the sidewalk, but cars, and being outside with people, seeing them.
I really wanted to know, and I, as both a sighted and blind person, still came away feeling that people that have been totally blind from birth have a much different idea of seeing then it actually is.
It didn’t surprise me, because now I can’t see, I understand why they might think so.
I'll point to the fact the sky is not actually blue.
The color of the sky depends on the day, time of day, weather.
It can be many colors at once actually, and sometimes it is blue, but never only blue ever.
I think maybe the things they’ve heard, and read cause the seeing perception, when in fact, seeing is much different.
I did learn that people really feel they see though.
I also learned that telling a blind person they really haven’t got the perception of what seeing like, makes them angry, and is a sensitive subject.
I think it is much like telling a jet pilot I flew a jet in my dream. The pilot tells me, to describe it, so I do. The pilot tells me no, that isn’t like it at all.
The difference is, that pilot can say, okay, sit down here and fly this jet and prove me dead wrong when I fail.
I can’t invite a blind person to see, so I guess I’ll have to leave the ones that believe they do believing it.

## Post 42 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Monday, 25-Aug-2014 0:37:29

Wayne,
I understand what you're saying, and I'm not offended. I understand the physics of light,
and astronomy, and the components of weather patterns better than many non scientific
sighted people I know. However, I have no earthly idea what it is like to see those things.
What is it like to look up and see a giant fluffy mountain of summer cumulus clouds? Or
the thin "ring" of cirrus clouds that form the optical illusion of surrounding the moon? Or
the great banner of sparks and blinking lights that we know is the Milky Way? Surely, as
an engineer for a living, and a science enthusiast, and a humanist, I can appreciate the
material aspect of these things, and I can appreciate the depth of emotion, awe and
wonder that these produce, even among those with little or no appreciation of the science
behind it all. For the sighted, they elicit something deep, primordial, and for theists
anyhow, even something "spiritual." I love being around sighted people enjoying the
sunset, moonrise, or any other cosmological / astronomical phenomena. But for me, it's
all vicarious. I know, because I've verified this, that my perceptions of color, lights, optical
illusions, and similar phenomena, are woefully imprecise and incomplete. The horizon, for
instance. A very real orientation point for sighted people, but it does not in fact exist. It's
an optical illusion created by the curvature of the earth. Shadows too, only exist as
negative images: optical illusions. Yet, sighted people for millennia were frightened by
them, guided by them as incomplete landmarks, and even kept time by them. But I
haven't experienced them.
The only time I ever experienced cloud movement was quite by accident. I was using a
color identifier for iOS to try and track an unusual bird, so I could possibly look it up by
call syllables and primary color and coordinates. I knew I had to do this when it was on
the wing. And as I pointed the camera towards the sky, it went from blue to a patch of
light gray, about six inches by a foot in size, then it seemed to start moving. I forgot the
bird, and stuck to the clojd's border and tracked it's rather irregular trajectory across the
yard until it went behind some trees. Naturally, I cannot prove any of it, and it is not at all
like what a sighted person experiences. You can be standing on solid ground, with still air,
and observe the effects of high winds in the upper atmosphere, seeing all sorts of images
as optical illusions in clouds. Fascinating. But I cannot rationally claim to know what it's
like, or what it's like to go from gloom to brilliant light, even in the dead of winter. So no,
Wayne, at least this lifelong blind guy cannot pretend to understand.

## Post 43 by Voyager (I just keep on posting!) on Monday, 25-Aug-2014 2:19:39

Where does the air become the sky? I can stand outside and stretch my arms over my head, and no one will ever say that I'm reaching into the sky. So apparently the sky doesn't begin with the air directly over my head. But then I've never heard a sighted person say something like "the sky starts at about x feet above us." So where does it begin?
People talk about birds, clouds, the moon, the sun and the stars all being in the sky. Obviously these things aren't all the same distance away from us.
So I understand sky to mean some region of space beginning somewhere above our heads (no one knows where) and extending out of our atmosphere and infinitely upward. Can anyone give me a better definition? I really don't understand the concept.

## Post 44 by season (the invisible soul) on Monday, 25-Aug-2014 4:09:53

For those that is totally blind, born blind and never see a single thing at all, how do you
know what you so call see on your dreams is actually so call vision?
It is almost like for me to say Afrika is full of monkeys, but i never been to Afrika to speak
with.
And, if dreams do exist, which is an argument by itself, how can we then stated that we
encounter something that we never see before, and name it as blue, red, tree, lion,
monkey or such?
I, for someone that have limited vision, can't even tell if there is a lion standing in front of
me, for not knowing how exactly they look like, beside the fact that they got 4 legs etc.

## Post 45 by chelslicious (like it or not, I'm gonna say what I mean. all the time.) on Monday, 25-Aug-2014 10:37:15

this is not a sensitive subject for me, Wayne.
what I'm objecting to, is you/others telling me that I'm wrong for my explanation of seeing in my dreams.
I've not said that my definition of seeing is exactly like sighted people's reality of seeing.
in fact, I stated that seeing in my dreams is likely how I perceive it would be for sighted people, since I do see everything in my dreams, as far as I'm concerned.
but, as BG said in an earlier post, I'm not sure why this has even become the topic of discussion. it's irrelevant, especially being that the topic was "do you see in your dreams," not, "do you think you see in your dreams?"

## Post 46 by forereel (Just posting.) on Monday, 25-Aug-2014 11:54:13

Voyager, that is heavy. Really much.
I’m going to tell you something, but I’m not telling you it for any other reason but to try to give you a concept. Nothing more.
Where the sky starts depends generally on the cloud bottoms.
But, that is not right, because, the clouds aren’t always at the same altitude. They move.
If you’ve listen to weather reports, you’ll hear them talk about ceiling, and that tends to be where the sky starts, at least in that area they happen to be reporting on.
The sky is also deep, but seems to have a top, because you’ve heard that rockets and such that are launched in to space must go through the earth’s crust.
That is weird, because you know the sun, moon, and starts are things that can be seen easy, but there not on the earth.
On some nights, it will appear that the moon is only a few feet away, and you can reach out and touch it, or if you have a plane, could fly up a few feet and get there, but the moons not even on the earth.
When you try, it keeps moving, even though visually, it is really close to you.
The Sun also moves, and can sit at different heights in the sky.
If you get up heigh enough, you can watch it rain from the top, but it won’t be raining on your floor.
The sky is a wonderful visual thing, but a trip.
There are lots more things, but that is just something I wanted to share with you.
Chelsea, I took the title to mean visual seeing.
I did understand you said you could see, but you talked about experiencing how it was to not be blind, and seeing like sighted persons, so that is how I got where I was.
I do understand your concept of seeings different, and I’d still love to know what it is like.
I was not even eligible for this topic, because I’ve seen, and haven’t been blind from birth. I talked about that.
I do understand seeing from a different perspective, but I didn’t understand it from a visual perspective, and I’m still waiting on anyone that can visually see in their dreams to explain how to me.
It be really fascinating.

## Post 47 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Monday, 25-Aug-2014 12:35:21

Chelsea, I'm not sure anyone here is saying you're "wrong," in the religious or blindness
dogma sense of the word. Of course, your experience is subjectively relevant to you.
We're just subjecting the concept to rational analysis. For some of us, that is the most
reliable tool we have for understanding things.

## Post 48 by season (the invisible soul) on Tuesday, 26-Aug-2014 21:40:18

This is no right or wrong answer, hens the reason for what and why we have discussion. It is just interesting for someone that never see (in this case, not chelsea) to think that they see things on their dreams. Again, how can you define what you see is what it is? Is the same argument i have, how can you differentiate from say, lion and a tiger, when you don't even know how a lion and a tiger suppose to look like, or a seal or doffin, or pink and yellow, just to name a few different things.
With my limited sight, and someone who never see a lion in my real life, if a lion standing in front of me, i would have mistaken it as a big cat, or something.

## Post 49 by forereel (Just posting.) on Wednesday, 27-Aug-2014 0:09:01

Right.
There are some really big cats, as you say. Some are big like horses.
So, if you happened to be dreaming about tigers, would they be big?
If someone told you all you life elephants were pink, would you in fact dream the color pink on an elephant?
I guess to me seeing is a visual thing, and feeling is a tactel thing, or a perception.
When you see, it isn't perceived, it is touching with no feel, sensation, or physical feedback even in you mind.
Seeing has not feeling until you attach an emotion to what your eyes input gives you. So, that is why I'm so interested in what is seeing like, if you see.

## Post 50 by season (the invisible soul) on Wednesday, 27-Aug-2014 1:49:17

"When you see, it isn't perceived, it is touching with no feel, sensation, or physical feedback even in you mind."
That is not true. Lots of people see and feel with their eyes, their sight. Sighted person will tell you that just by looking at something, they can tell how tall a building is, how big or small an object is without touching them. Hens the concept of visual perception. If seeing is not emotional, then, you won't have all the great visual artistts, or the good old saying "eyes are the window to the soul" and more.

## Post 51 by forereel (Just posting.) on Wednesday, 27-Aug-2014 10:15:21

But that is emotion, that isn't physical.
Remember, I'm speaking from a seeing persons point of view. I once was highly sighted.
I do get your point completely though, so don't think I haven't.
I'm only talking about when the input is coming in, not the effects or emotional.

## Post 52 by Sword of Sapphire (Whether you agree with my opinion or not, you're still gonna read it!) on Monday, 01-Sep-2014 22:52:26

As someone who saw for about the 1st 3 years of my life, I definitely have an idea of what it is like to have sight, and I can see in my dreams. I can see shapes of buildings, trees, sidewalks, streets, and people. I can see people moving and even people speaking from a distance. I can see lightning, the sun, fire, heat, and cold. I have very good perception of brightness and darkness, but not colors.
Colors make absolutely no sense to me because I lost my sight around the age at which many children really start to learn which colors are which, which shades are which, and apply these things to the things they see. If I had to explain what color things are in my dreams, I'd tell you they have no color because I don't have an understanding of what it is like to distinguish color from a thing. For instance, I can see grass lively, full, soft grass, or dried, flat, dead grass. I know the former is green, and the latter is brown because of what I have been told, but I am not able to attach color to these sights when I picture or dream about them.
One thing I remember vividly and dream about regularly is fire. I was fascinated with fire when my sight started distorting. I felt like fire was the only thing I could see clearly when I stood close to it or peered closely at it. When I picture it, I can see that the outer flames are the least intense, and as you move toward the center, the flames grow brighter, and it is brightest in the center where it is most hot; and I can see the intense heat radiating from the fire.
I remember snow, too. I don't remember snowflakes, but I remember seeing icy white crystals of purity drift down from the sky. The snowflakes just look like tufts of white to me, though I know they must have different shapes.
I also remember darkness at nighttime. The sight itself of everything being cloaked in darkness, and yet I could see outlines and shadows of things.
And as Alicia stated, for things that I have learned about after losing my sight, or not had the experience to see, if they are people, they are just a blur. But if they are people or things that I have touched, I see them based on how they feel to me. For instance, I have walked on smooth streets, and rough and cracked sidewalks barefoot, so in my dreams, I am able to see the smoothness of the road and the unevenness and roughness of the sidewalk. I know that these specific things are not always the same texture, but that is just how I envision the difference.
As far as this whole business about not being able to see in dreams if one was completely blind from birth. Chelsea, I understand your argument that the vision you had was not enough to rely on for a clear understanding of what things look like. But as someone who had very clear sight, then distorted sight myself, I can say for sure that unlike many blind-from-birth persons, you at least have an understanding of what it is like to perceive something with your eyes and to be aware of that part of your body and that, however clear or distorted, they send sensations and signals to your brain to be processed. Whether you were able to process them as anything useful or not does not make a difference compared to a person who has zero understanding of how it is like to be aware that a certain part of their body is capable of perceiving or capturing information, however useful or useless it may be. So yes, you do have a sense of what it is like to see; you definitely have more of a sense than someone who was born with no eyes, no optic nerves, or no sight to speak of whatsoever. I don't believe those people could even fathom being able to receive visual information through eyes, and then process it as light or images, or even something distorted or unreliable.
Does this make sense at all?

## Post 53 by vh (This site is so "educational") on Tuesday, 02-Sep-2014 17:53:51

Sword of Sapphire, post 52:
how do you "see" heat and cold?

## Post 54 by forereel (Just posting.) on Tuesday, 02-Sep-2014 20:37:28

I could answer that, but I'll let her do so. Smile.

## Post 55 by Sword of Sapphire (Whether you agree with my opinion or not, you're still gonna read it!) on Wednesday, 03-Sep-2014 1:46:27

I suck at describing things no matter what they are, but I'll attempt here.
First, I speculate that seeing heat and cold has some color associated with it. If I'm wrong, whatever. If I'm not, then I'll again mention that I am not able to recognize and perceive colors. But I understand that different types of heat and cold from different sources are different colors.
The best description I can give is that heat or hot air is lighter or brighter. The heat I can visualize best, that isn't from steam or moisture in the air, is associated with, or from firelight, so the heat is a glowing brightness. Like the bright red hot of fire.
I think cold air is darker? And there is definitely a frosty look to it.
Those are my best descriptions.

## Post 56 by Sword of Sapphire (Whether you agree with my opinion or not, you're still gonna read it!) on Wednesday, 03-Sep-2014 3:26:25

Aha! Okay, there's another quality about hot air and cold air that I can visualize, but I could not find the right word for it. I don't know if I am able to perceive this by sight in my dreams because I was actually able to see it when I had sight, or if it's because I attach the feeling to the sight. Earlier, I would have described it as hot air being full, and cold air being empty. But that is an extremely inadequate description. More accurately, cold air looks thinner compared to hot air. Yes, we can all feel this when we breathe it in, but I can also see this in my dreams.
Is this actually perceivable by sight, or is this just a feeling I've attached to the visualization? Someone confirm!

## Post 57 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Wednesday, 03-Sep-2014 16:57:35

Well of course I can't confirm or deny being I've never been sighted. But air, outside of the floating particulates, is invisible. Gases such as hydrogen, oxygen, carbon dioxide, and helium have no color and they have no odor. The only way air smells of anything is particulates in the air. If you're flying over LAX in California, the sky may look brown, but that is all the smog particles in the air. Hence some of us call Los Angeles SmellA instead of LA. Obviously, mist changes what you see, as it's water droplets in the air. But in order to actually see heat (or cold) you need infrared glasses used by the military and the police force. Snakes can see this because they feel it via heat pits on their faces. Obviously, if you see your breath on a cold day, you're seeing the result of the heat exchange taking place, the warm air you exhaled full of water droplets, now contacting cold air and the water droplets condensing. But you can't see air.
If somebody can, you're going to break the bank, e.g. my curious mind will have to research and figure out the physics behind how that one works. Subjective experiences notwithstanding, of course.

## Post 58 by vh (This site is so "educational") on Thursday, 04-Sep-2014 18:22:11

When it is very hot, it can look like the air is shimmering or waving. Other than that, you can't see air. Like Leo said, if there is moisture or dust/gunk in the air, it can have color but other than that in my experience, hot/cold don't have color or visual aspect.
Heat and cold can affect the visual characteristics of things. Refrigerated/room temp butter is a yellowish white while when ymelted becomes a not quite clearish deeper yellow. Hypercolor shirts (any of you remember those) change from purple to pink, green to yellow etc. Sorry, just threw that one in for fun.

## Post 59 by Shaydz (Veteran Zoner) on Thursday, 04-Sep-2014 19:10:49

I can confirm posts 57 and 58, having had sight. I am staying out of this topic because I
was sighted most of my life, so I dream visually from what I remember.

## Post 60 by forereel (Just posting.) on Thursday, 04-Sep-2014 21:55:38

You don't see the air exactly, but you can see heat or cold.
I don't know the science behind it, but it is so.
Heat causes the air to sort of move, so maybe that is the water vapor, or whatever.
Cold air is blueish, or grey sort of.
Yes, yes, strange, but there it is.
If you go ski on a cold day, you can see the cold, fog? Not actually, but if it is clear, you get that blueish tent.
Defferent heat sources do make different color in the fire, but not in the air, unless that sorce has smoke.
Wood can have yellow, or red flame. Gas can be blue. Coal is red or white when it is really hot.
Weird, I know, but the world is full of stuff visually.

## Post 61 by Imprecator (The Zone's Spelling Nazi) on Friday, 05-Sep-2014 14:38:23

Sometimes I can taste and smell in my dreams but not often. I had one once abot being at an amusement park, and there was a stand selling whale meat burgers. It was pretty tough and bland. I've no idea what whale meat tastes like in real life.

## Post 62 by spfan15 (O&A Party Rock!!!) on Friday, 05-Sep-2014 17:06:04

Here's how I explain it. I had site till aobut the age of five in one eye, so I remember colors and things. When ever I see in dreams, it's ideas I've conjured up in my head that I see with my eyes. So if I hear someone's voice during the day and I have painted a picture in my head of what they look like, I see that picture with my eyes. Colors are all the same and if I don't have a real idea of what that person might look like, it's just blird faces... Not lines! Ha

## Post 63 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Friday, 05-Sep-2014 18:15:52

Ok people thanks for the responses RE: seeing heat and cold in the air. Now you have this totally blind, science enthusiast, engineer curious enough to go look up the causes. But then, whatever the technical causes are, if the visual experience is cool or fun, enjoy it as is. If vision is anything for humans, it is experiential.

## Post 64 by forereel (Just posting.) on Friday, 05-Sep-2014 19:16:18

When you look it up, as I did, you'll find it exist. Smile.
Your wife can see. Simply ask her?

## Post 65 by chelslicious (like it or not, I'm gonna say what I mean. all the time.) on Sunday, 05-Oct-2014 16:01:44

Raven, it's nice to see that someone gets that I do, indeed, see in my dreams, rather than someone trying to tell me that isn't possible.
people cannot possibly know what another person experiences, which is why we share our experiences with one another, in the hopes that we'll be able to at least have a better understanding of how someone else's world works.
as I've said before, I had some vision when I was younger, and although I was unable to distinguish what colors looked like, I was able to recognize smaller details of objects, as well as people.
for example, if a girl was standing really close to me, and had dark hair with highlights in it, I could see that.
I could also tell whether she was wearing a light or dark shirt, or even a dress, if it was flowy enough.
if that doesn't qualify as seeing to some of you, what the hell do you call that?

## Post 66 by forereel (Just posting.) on Sunday, 05-Oct-2014 17:45:34

That is seeing.
That is also why you see in your dreams.
I was basing my post to you on the fact you never saw at all.
I did know you could see light, but not as much as you've posted now.

## Post 67 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Monday, 06-Oct-2014 12:12:25

Chelsea, people asking some tough questions is not, as you suspect, people asserting it is not possible. For one who speaks so often about growing up, I'm surprised this basic concept of rational discourse seems to have alluded you. Especially since for a time you were an atheist, which often is congruent with the systematic and rational approach.
Of course people are going to ask. There are rational reasons why. That doesn't change your experience. It might change others' understanding of it, but of course it doesn't change your experience. But the word "see" when applied visually, has a technical definition. If I say that I visually see things in my dreams, then I expect I will have to give an account for how that works, since I, unlike you, have never had any usable vision. I don't even understand on a nonrational level how sight even works.
And for the record, I have done this very thing for decades now, where people were skeptical of the blind from birth being able to visualize in a 3D spatial environment without having an object present to feel or check out. When I was a teenager, of course, I would get upset at being asked such things. But, to quote commonly held theistic proverb, when I was no longer a child I put away childish things. In this case, that means do my best to describe it, when asked. And ultimately, enough somebodys have done this, so that neuroscience has been done to actively demonstrate that the visual centers are not directly linked to eyesight: they are processing power not input. If everyone had just stomped their feet and said "That's not fair!" the science would not have been done. But now, it's not just experience, it's hard science. You don't need visual input to visualize your environment or abstract multidimensional concepts.
Perhaps there is something similar in your case. I'm not a neuroscientist so I don't know. But being defensive never goes hand in hand with innovation and finding things out. And, for the record, I think both of us can tell the difference between a skeptical question and a hostile slap across the face. I was treated to the latter as a child on account of claims I could visualize. But that doesn't mean that as an adult I couldn't differentiate hostility from skepticism. It takes a bit of mental endurance at first. But it is, as you say, "part of growing up."

## Post 68 by johndy (I just keep on posting!) on Tuesday, 11-Nov-2014 23:31:39

I don't think I see that often in my dreams these days. Up till I was fourteen, I had some residual sight, so I could tell colors and light and dark. When shapes were either very bright or very close, I could discern them, but I couldn't tell by looking who someone was. The last really vivid visual dream I had was probably at about the age of seventeen. Other than that, I mostly have vague visual images if I have them at all.