# Ireland's Holocaust

Category: Let's talk

## Post 1 by speedie (move over school!) on Wednesday, 09-May-2007 9:30:11

This began in 1845 and lasted until 1851.
It was the biggest humanitarian disaster ever known in Europe at the time.
Ireland's poor, and the country was the poorest place in the whole of Europe,relied on one crop, the potato, for their substistance.
When the blight began in 1845, there was very little panic, in England at least. They were of the opinion that this was an Irish problem and it would sort itself out. But it didn't. Altogether 2 million people died from starvation or from associated diseases.
Typhus and cholera were rampant,in the remotest areas, people died where they fell, skeletal and clad in rags.
Whole villages, cut off from help fell silent, and the dead remained in their homes, as there was no one fit to carry out a burial, or to give the last rites.
Whole families starved together some resorted to cannabilism
in desperation.
One story told of a man so insane with hunger, he was found gnawing on a chunk of earth, and people were found with their mouths stained green,from eating the grass to stay alive.
While this was going on the landlords and English were exporting grain by the boat load to line their pockets.The people were expected to survive on a handful of tasteless yellow grain and oatmeal. Their metabolisim, so used to eating only potatoes,was unable to cope and many suffered terrible stomach ache and vomiting, can you imagine vomiting up the only food you have. Hundreds of thouands of Irish, fled their country to head to America and Canada, even more came to glasgow, where they were destitute with only the rags they stood up in. Many died on the short trip across the Irish sea used as balast in the lowest hold of these tiny ships. On the 6 week trip to America, ship owners, would tell them there will food and clothing provided. There was no such thing and these poor bastards already starving died. On landing, the deckhands were able to haul the corpses out with boat hooks, they were so light.
But there is a lighter end to this tragic tale Glasgow would not have become so wealthy without those destitute and starving people, who have contributed to much to their adopted country. There should be a statue to the Irish imigrants of the famine.

## Post 2 by Grace (I've now got the ggold prolific poster award! wahoo! well done to me!) on Wednesday, 09-May-2007 10:08:33

T'anam chun Dia!
If you ever wondered where "Top o' the morning" came from, here it is:
T'anam chun Dia! but there it is-
The dawn on the hills of Ireland!
God's angels lifting the nights's black veil
From the fair, sweet face of my sireland!
O, Ireland! isn't it grand to look-
Like a bride in her rich adornin'!
With all the pent-up love of my heart
I bid you the top o'the morning'!
From: The Exile's Return
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CITY FULL OF GHOSTS (Dublin)
Dublin is a city full of good times
Dublin is a city full of dance
Dublin is a city full of music
Poetry, sex and romance
But what it means to me the most…
Dublin is a city full of ghosts
Dublin is a city full of tricksters
Dublin is a city full of priests
Dublin is a city full of rumors
Seventy-two thousand at least
But what it means to me the most…
Dublin is a city full of ghosts
The ghosts of my joy, the ghosts of my tears
The ghosts of my glorious dissolute years
The ghost of adventure, wilder than words
The ghost of the night I first made love to her
Dublin is a city full of humor
Dublin is a city full of wit
Dublin is a city full of hustlers
Playing old Waterboy hits
But what it means to me the most.
Dublin is a city full of ghosts
The ghosts of a fiddle, the ghost of a sax
The ghost of a sound that ain’t never coming back
The ghost of a friendship, curdled and sour
The ghost of a time when I still had the Power
Dublin is a city full of magic
Dublin is a city full of Light
Dublin is a city full of wonder
Dublin is a city full of shite
But what it means to me the most…
Dublin is a city full of ghosts
~ By: The Waterboys
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From a letter I wrote to a Friend this year I'll share now with you at this time Stevie ~ Spedie,
So little is known of my heritage Irish and yet the little that is known…
Well, allow for me to share on this St. Patrick’s Day Eve 2007
I had to give a bit of a new realization type of smile for never had I realized all the to do as it were of the shamrock ~ if petals three then of Catholic origin when thots turn to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit of the Trinity, while as if leaves of four then Celtic and so at one point I read, Pagan being the design and for a measure of Good Luck ~ The reason for the smile…well, never before had I heard of the Catholic version, rather only of the Celtic…must be my pagan roots are showing forth themselves to be present. My mother whose family all came from Scotland was one ever being enabled to locate 4-leaf clovers in her garden. At one time I came across some of these clovers held in places between pages of her books of poetry as well as her beloved Bible.
…and so the Story goes though I am discovering so much is the need of research to fill in the oh so many spaces that are lacking of valid information. Dad would share how his Great grandfather on his Mother’s side came over to America via ship from Ireland with his two very young daughters with him. There was no talk of the mother of these two little girls…only that he came to America with these two little ones and what a feat it must have been for a man traveling alone with these ones. Seems their ages must have been in close proximity to that of six year olds with perhaps a couple of years between them. Why they came is not really known, whether famine drove them away with hope of new beginnings in a new country..or..to get away from the various religious persecutions for on rare occasion mention was made between the ever battling Catholics and Protestants over in the Old country… One piece of jewelry I have that my Dad gave me that belonged to his Grandmother, her cross done in a leaf design and he mentioned it was Catholic apparently in design though here in America the religion observed was Protestant/Baptist. Personally, I just don’t get what the difference between a Catholic and Protestant cross is.. *shrugs
Though Great grandfather left the shores of Ireland with his two little girls…yet still sad to say… he arrived on the shores of America with only one, as somewhere in the cross over the ocean the one died and given that particular time in history when one died on board ship then thusly they were buried at sea. Dad would always tell of how he so hated hearing that part of the Story and how for years it haunted him in his thots… something I think he always carried with him through life. Apparently Great grandfather’s birth home was in Dublin, Ireland and from time to time Dad would talk of his desire to contact Dublin and learn of the family/heritage…
Every now and again Dad mentioned the Irish brogue of his Grandmother’s speech. How he so adored the way she had of speaking. For though she was just that very young girl who traveled with her Dad across the many miles of the ocean waters, she had retained the ability of to not become shall we say “Americanized” in her speech. This little girl, grown into a woman, married a man that to the best we have been given to understand was of French-Canadian and Native Indian American in his heritage and their daughter, my Dad‘s mother, married a man of German descent.
…the night is young and the turf fire is pleasant enough…where memory mingles with the everpresent moments as we share in treasured friendship…
********************************************************
"Éirinn go Brách". (Ireland Forever)
Connie ~ Grace

## Post 3 by Perestroika (Her Swissness) on Wednesday, 09-May-2007 23:02:36

QUOTE
But there is a lighter end to this tragic tale Glasgow would not have become so wealthy without those destitute and starving people, who have contributed
to much to their adopted country. There should be a statue to the Irish imigrants of the famine.
so what you're saying is, that it's a great thing that the scottish economy benifited from a heep of starving immigrants?
I see a problem with errecinga statue for that.

## Post 4 by speedie (move over school!) on Thursday, 10-May-2007 8:06:24

I was warned about you so.
The industrial revolution would never have happened in Scotland.
There just weren't enough Scots to go round and Glasgow did benefit from the starving Irish,they've been benefitting ever since.

## Post 5 by Senior (I've now got the bronze prolific poster award! now going for the silver award!) on Thursday, 10-May-2007 15:53:48

Firstly explain how the Potatoe Famine is a holocaust since you didn't bother doing this in post 1 despite calling the famine a holocaust. Secondly, the Irish though they played a role in the development of the Scottish economy aren't responsible for its development. It is wrong to assume Scotland couldn't have developed without the starving Irish. Thirdly let's put this "holocaust" which wasn't a holocaust at all in perspective. Was not Ireland the home of several people who wanted independence during the Potatoe Famine? What evidence is there that had Ireland been independent at that time, the Irish Famine would not have happened? It's fine to say the rich sold crops to the English and let the poor Irish starve, but do you have credible evidence that the rich wouldn't have behaved towards the poor so badly had Ireland been independent? The independence movement wasn't exactly full of communists you know. Now let's assume that the Irish at that time were more civil towards the English, and were all passionately supportive of the union. Would the English have allowed their close friends to starve to death? I think not. Now you may list things the English did to upset the Irish before the Irish Famine. However, it is worth noting that the English treated each other very badly too, but that didn't result in the oppressed English people forming some independence movement which would carry out atrocities in the name of independence from the elite etc. Oh and finally, just because I'm curious, how many other holocausts which haven't been referred to as holocausts do you believe have happened? and why are each of them holocausts? I accept that I've given you a lot to answer, but that's so that I can increase my understanding of the Irish "holocaust" which wasn't. and see that actually it was a holocaust.

## Post 6 by speedie (move over school!) on Saturday, 12-May-2007 10:04:03

It's clear man is everything an argument around here.
The independence issue is immaterial eejit. I'm talking about human lives here, and Scotland couldn't have propsered without the Irish workers. If you know your history you'll know who built, alongside the Scots, the Forth rail bridge on which 60 Irishman died, the Glasgow Underground, and the Forth and Clyde cannal and Broomielaw harbour. There was only word the bosses wanted to hear and one accent alone IRISH! They couldn't get enough of the Irish lads, because the Glasgow Scots wren't willing or able to do it.
The English deliberately allowed the Irish to starve, so we would kow tow to our usurpers, and come to heel they only intervened when news of the death toll collected by people who couldn't believe what they were hearing witnessed the famine first hand and saw these walking skeletons, dying on the streets of Ireland.
The scale of Irish suffering forced the English into sending, what I would not call aid in any description, and even then, English ship owners were lying to the people they used as human balast! on the trips to America ect.
Too many of these poor STARVING wretches, died from fever or suffocation.Have you heard of the terrible events on the SS Londonderry, or have your English history books edidted that out.

## Post 7 by Perestroika (Her Swissness) on Saturday, 12-May-2007 10:35:42

I honestly don't think that it would have been any better if ireland had been free at that point in time. yes, the english did terrible things to other parts of its empire. heart of darkness was one of my favouite books. i actually think there are more reasons to cal that a holocaughst than this.
My above remark was actually meant to be a lot longer, i wanted to say more...about how wrong it is to pay tribute to capitalism...but i just didn't have the time. and as i'm a little tipsy now, i won't comment further...

## Post 8 by speedie (move over school!) on Saturday, 12-May-2007 10:42:15

Is that right? Without capitalism where are we, would you rather communism. I wasn't saying we pay tribute to capitalism? No. Christ, the last thing I want, are those who made money out of suffering to be remembered. I'm asking that my people be recognised for their courage and determination.
Stevie

## Post 9 by Perestroika (Her Swissness) on Saturday, 12-May-2007 10:50:31

I think that without capitalism there'd be a lot less focus on the idea hat you should do anything you can to make a profit. as far as i'm concerned huge corperations do more harm to society than good..
I'm a democratic socialist. there's a big difference between that and socialism.
I'm not saying your people weren't couraous. i'm saying that given the economic situation of most of the world at that point in time. it most likely would have happened ither way. I agree, the british have done some terrible things to many different races, however, some things still would have happened.
god, i just looked at my typing during this tpost...i'm sorry.

## Post 10 by Perestroika (Her Swissness) on Saturday, 12-May-2007 10:51:23

and i meant communism.

## Post 11 by speedie (move over school!) on Saturday, 12-May-2007 10:59:24

The famine wouldn't have happened either way, the contageon came from Belguim,where they had famine it was a matter of weather and fieckin bad luck. Ireland had known food shortages, but the famine was another thing altogether.I'm stunned your claim is like saying, the black death would have happened anyway.
Stevie.