# Does anybody have a Doberman for a guide dog?

Category: Animal House

## Post 1 by coasterfreak88 (The coaster freak is here.) on Saturday, 08-Jul-2006 2:22:23

I've heard that Dobermans are being trained to be guide dogs now. If anyone has one, what is it like to have one. I would think that having a Doberman as a guide dog would make people think twice about petting a service animal because I think most people seem to be afraid of Dobermans.

## Post 2 by Goblin (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Saturday, 08-Jul-2006 7:28:44

My partner knew a nasty Doberman who was downright dangerous, if the breed is suitable why not and you might be right about the petting issue.

## Post 3 by Musical Ambition (I've got the gold prolific poster award, now is there a gold cup for me?) on Saturday, 08-Jul-2006 11:06:55

doberman's have been trained as guide dogs for a while now. I got my guide dog in the summer of 97, and when I was at the school, they were training them then. My dog isn't a full blooded Doberman, but he is mixed with it. He's part Chocolate Lab, part doberman. You can see both breeds in him. As far as his demeanor goes, he's excellent. I couldn't have asked for a better dog. Yes, when you think of a Doberman, usually, you'd think twice before messing with it, but this all depends on how the dog is raised and treated, just like it does with any other dog. If someone is mean, or abuses their dog, or if they train the dog to be mean, vicious, and violent, then of course, the dog is going to turn out that way.

## Post 4 by coasterfreak88 (The coaster freak is here.) on Saturday, 08-Jul-2006 23:10:48

Isn't it Pilot Dogs that trains Dobermans? None of the other schools I've looked at seem to do it.

## Post 5 by Goblin (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Sunday, 09-Jul-2006 9:11:23

The breed was developed by Doberman Pinscher a German debt collector who had hassle from his clients. When the breed was perfected to be vicious, and intimidating to look at, he had no problem getting the late payers to cough up.

## Post 6 by sugarbaby (The voice of reason) on Monday, 10-Jul-2006 9:06:46

lol goblin that gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "get your rotweilers to go and collect the debts" guess it was dobermans in this instance.
Personally I think training dogs like this as guide dogs is a bad idea. Do we really want to give across the message that members of the public shouldn't pet guide dogs because they're agressive? Guide dogs have to go into lots of different situations, including those where small children are present. Currently guide dogs act as good ambasadors to dogs, as they're generally not agressive, and therefore it's ok for people to approach them without fear of being bitten. (and no, there's nothing wrong with members of the public petting guide dogs as long as the handle is down and they've asked the owner first whether it's alright). Guide dogs need to be seen as being nice dogs to have, not potentially agressive, to cause fear in members of the public.

## Post 7 by Musical Ambition (I've got the gold prolific poster award, now is there a gold cup for me?) on Tuesday, 11-Jul-2006 11:32:32

Just because a dog is a doberman, doesn't mean he or she is aggressive. we used to have a full blooded Doberman, and he didn't have an ounce of viciousness in him. Kids could play with him and all. It depends on the owner, and how they raise and treat their dog. any dog, if treated viciously, can be an aggressive dog. And, no, I don't agree that guide dogs should be allowed to be petted. It's a distraction. that's what I was taught, anyway. And, yes, Pilot dogs, is where they train dobermans. That's one reason why I chose to go to that school, because they train different breeds of dogs. Not just labs, and the occasional German Shepherd. Not everyone is going to be compatible with a lab or shepherd. And, speaking of German Shepherds, how can people agree that it's okay to train them, but not Doberman's? They can be just as vicious as a Doberman. Any dog can be, really. But, like I said, it all depends on the owner of the dog. The Doberman we used to have wasn't violent at all, and I also own a German Shepherd, who is a big baby.

## Post 8 by SensuallyNaturallyLiving4Today (LivingLifeAndLovingItToo) on Tuesday, 11-Jul-2006 13:49:07

Any dog can be a rotten viscious animal, I don't care if it's a breed like a husky, German shepard or doberman, that is reputed to be dangerous, or a lab, cocker spaniel or collie. Any dog can bite, any dog can do some major dammage.
I don't agree that it is all right for Guidedogs to be petted, quote unquote when the handle is down. The harness needs to be completely off if any petting is going to go on, and even then it should be limited. It is so important to maintain your bond with your dog, and to keep it's contact with the general public to a minimum. Letting a few select friends and your spouse or significant other get close to the dog isn't a problem, but if your dog is petted often by everyone they will come to expect it. They will be highly distracted by people, less responsive to their handlers and that can be a very dangerous situation. Help your guide dog out and don't tempt them. They have enough to deal with between dog distractions and food distractions, don't allow them to develop a people distraction.
That is exactly what happened with my guide dog, and I am bound and determined that it will not happen to my new dog.

## Post 9 by Goblin (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Wednesday, 12-Jul-2006 8:29:50

Gemini I agree but these dogs are often bred by irresposnible eejits purely for money, as happened over here, with disasterous results.

## Post 10 by Texas Shawn (The cute, cuddley, little furr ball) on Wednesday, 12-Jul-2006 9:49:16

Pilot has a history of being one of the worst schools in the U.S. Yes I know any school can have some bad dogs, mine included which is GDB. But Pilot has had a history of this!
That doesn't surprise me that they'd start using this kind of breed. I myself wouldn't want a Doberman for a guide, not because I think there vicious but because the general public does, it's hard enough when people think labs bite or a aggressive. There isn't any need to aggravate the problem!

## Post 11 by Spirit Led Poet (a single snowflake falling from the stars above) on Wednesday, 12-Jul-2006 10:07:45

i also agree on this, german shepherds can be just as agressive as dobermans, as can labs and goldens. I deffinantly am not one to agree that the public should be allowd to pet service dogs. They are there to help there master not to play doggy to the public...and yes they do have enough distractions doin there job as it is without adding to that. however I'm a gynormous fan of german shepherds and I will say that they as well as dobermans are what you make them, treat them rite and they'll turn out rite, abuse and mistreat them, and a vicious scared animal will be what you end up with. I love all dogs and have worked with all kinds and have seen a pug be just as agressive as a pit bull, and a shepherd be just as nice and babied as a shih tzu, so it is what you make it...

## Post 12 by Musical Ambition (I've got the gold prolific poster award, now is there a gold cup for me?) on Wednesday, 12-Jul-2006 11:55:28

I agree, Luscious Lioness, and LaMusique. goblin, dont' get me wrong. I know that people have trained dogs to be vicious. Some people do it here too. But, that's my point. If a dog is trained to be vicious and violent, then it's going to be that way. As far as Pilot being a bad school, this is your own personal opinion. Personally, I had a wonderful experience with them, and I couldn't have asked for a better dog. I have had him for just over nine years now, and haven't had any problems. Unless you have been to the school yourself, and have had a bad experience, then I dont' think someone should talk down on a school, just because they have heard things from word of mouth. Just because someone says a particular school is bad, doesn't mean that it is. every school has good and bad. Personally, I went to high school with a girl who went to one of the school's in California for her guide dog, and she went through three dogs in less than a year, because the dogs were so bad. I also know a couple of people who went to the Seeing Eye in New jersey, and they have returned the dogs because they weren't trained very well. So, unless you have had personal experience with a school, I don't think you should talk down on it, just because of what you "hear" from other people.

## Post 13 by sugarbaby (The voice of reason) on Thursday, 13-Jul-2006 8:45:25

but it's not just about whether a dog is agressive or not, it's about how certain types of dogs are perceived. German shepherds/dobermans/rotweilers/staffordshire terriers... and the list goes on, are generally perceived to be agressive dogs. labradors/retrievers are generally preceived to be highly inteligent and lovely family pets. But in every breed there are exceptions. lots of people have dobermans/german shepherds who are lovely family pets and who have lovely natures, but because of how these dogs are portrayed on television, they are given the reputation as being agressive. by the same token I know of someone whose labrador turned on her 2 year old child for no reason, and yet most people would recommend a lab as being a good pet and good with small children.
Guide dogs are public figures in a way. they are allowed access to shops/restaurants/taxi's/public transport/anywhere that other dogs are not allowed access, and therefore these dogs need to be seen as good-natured. The public are far less likely to be accepting of a breed of dog that is perceived to have an agressive nature, than of a lab who is perceived to be friendly.
In terms of petting etc the US train their dogs far differently to the UK, and the UK has a far higher pass rate of guide dogs than anywhere else in the world, and people are certainly not told that petting is not allowed, restricted while dog is working yes, but restricted while dog is off harnass/lead, definitely not. And we free run our dogs which is also not done in the US and our dogs appear to be far better for it.

## Post 14 by Musical Ambition (I've got the gold prolific poster award, now is there a gold cup for me?) on Thursday, 13-Jul-2006 10:52:17

Well, as far as petting guide dogs go, I dont' let people pet mine while he's working (while he has his harness on(. But, when he has his harness off, I'll allow people to pet him, if they wish. He's intelligent enough to know when it's time to work, and when he has his harness on, I'm the only one he pays attention to, so it doesn't bother me at all to let people pet him, when he's not working. and, I do agree somewhat with what SB said. I completely understand that the public are going to see certain types of breeds in certain ways. If you look at my guide dog, you can see that he has Doberman in him, but people see how calm and well behaved he is, so they dont' freak out or anything like that, as if he's going to attack them.

## Post 15 by SensuallyNaturallyLiving4Today (LivingLifeAndLovingItToo) on Saturday, 15-Jul-2006 20:45:42

Personally, I don't give a damn what the public thinks. I far prefer shepards to labs, and believe that a well-trained, note, well-trained shepard with a seasoned, note, seasoned, handler can be an extrordinary team. I don't mind if the general public is intimidated a bit by my dog. If they are, then they are far less likely to try and pet the dog with out permission, feed it, distract it, play with it, or even steel it. I'll tell you, if I'm walking back to my dorm late at night after rehearsal and I have to go across campus to do so, I'd feel a lot safer with a German shepard by my side then a lab. Granted, a shepard is not a gard dog any more than a lab is, or at least in terms of guide dogs, but the public doesn't know that. And what they don't know may keep me safe. A mugger or rapest is going to think not only twice but thrice about attacking someone walking down the street with a German Shepard at their side. Not so much with a lab. As for pilot, it has had a terrible reputation in the past, however, they have hiered some new trainers in recent years who are outstanding. I can't vouch for their breeding and puppy raising program, or for their student dog training program, but as far as the training goes, it should be very good. All guidedog schools, at least those in the US have been declining in quality over the past thirty or so years, even the biggies like Guiding Eyes and Seeing Eye, with only a few schools managing to maintain their quality or improve upon it. I would sight Fidelco as a prime example of the latter type of school.

## Post 16 by SensuallyNaturallyLiving4Today (LivingLifeAndLovingItToo) on Monday, 17-Jul-2006 16:22:56

As for free running dogs. I don't approve of it, because, no matter how well behaved and obediant your dog is, it could be attacked or led astray by another less well-behaved, less obediant dog. Also, it depends on the dog. My dog audry could have been free run. She would have come back. My last guide dog, Brittany on the other hand was a runner, and she wouldn't think twice about running off, and wouldn't return until someone physically brought her back.

## Post 17 by Goblin (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Thursday, 20-Jul-2006 8:21:26

I disagree your dog sees you as it's top pack member and will always return, as joining another pack is fraught with danger, Scott and Dougie play up but they have never failed to come back, and I would never deny them their freedom. A healthy energetic dog, who is kept on a lead, and then suddenly released,is more likely to run off like a daft thing due to being given freedom.

## Post 18 by SensuallyNaturallyLiving4Today (LivingLifeAndLovingItToo) on Thursday, 20-Jul-2006 14:45:06

Yes, but if the bond isn't there then the dog will have no reason to come back, and sometimes that bond just does not develop or at least not to the nmeccessary extent. Also, some dog breeds don't have the strong pack mentality that makes free running plausable. A collie, or a shepard, a husky or a malamute generally has a much more ingraned sense of pack and place. Guidedogs are also a special case. At eight weeks old they say good-bye to the people who housed, fed, and cared for them, their mother and their brothers and sisters. Then they go to a new home where they have to bond with a new person or family. Then they have to say good-bye to that family in a matter of twelve to sixteen months. They never see their mother's foster family again, and the same is usually true of their puppy raisers. Next they go to a kennel where they become very attached to their trainer. After six or so months they say good-bye to that trainer and go to live with their new owner. They may see their trainer again, but it won't be for long, and they will leave again. It is often more difficult for such dogs to develop a clear-cut sense of place, pack and permenance. It's a trade-off. They trade in that solid sense of "This is my home, this is my pack, this is my pack leader." for a flexable nature, and a low-key relaxed approach to most situations.

## Post 19 by Goblin (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Saturday, 22-Jul-2006 8:43:27

I agree the way GD's are shifted around is just exploitative. It's time the guide schools developed a better system for raising these dogs, it would make more sense for the schools to invest more money in having just 1 person train the puppy, then they slowly break the bond when it's time to move to the advanced stage. I hate to think of the psychological impact of constant change on these dogs,no wonder so many fail. Your right about the effect on their spirit rarely do you see a guide dog looking pleased with himself {Scott being the exception, smile}it's akin to breaking a child's spirit then expecting him to become the Dux of Oxford

## Post 20 by SensuallyNaturallyLiving4Today (LivingLifeAndLovingItToo) on Saturday, 22-Jul-2006 21:44:01

Agreed. I think that puppies should be raised at the breeding center and socialized by several staff members, so that they bond with humans as a species, but not with any one person in particular. I think that the family that raises the puppy should continue to house the dog while the trainer works with it, or perhaps specialized programs should be implemented to teach foster families how to begin the guide dog training proccess. They would have to work closely with trainers, but that might be a better transition for the dog. I would like to raise a puppy for a school, have a trainer train it, and then come back and train the dog and I. It's not realistic, but it would be wonderful.