# 3 questions

Category: Daily Living

## Post 1 by pisces_dreamer (Veteran Zoner) on Monday, 09-Feb-2009 17:37:50

hi everyone, my questions are these. Firstly, how do you all find buttering and spreading things on bread, toast, roles, etc? I can do it, just sometimes i find it difficult getting the write amount of butter on a knife, then i'm always afraid of leaving crumbs in butter, also how is anyone with jam and other sticky stuff like this?
My second question is to do with boiling water. I had a nasty incident a few months back, where i got a bit complacent and as a result, got boiling water on my hands, how do you check to make sure when there's enough water in a cup either pouring from tea or coffee pots and or kettles?
And my final question is this, know these are probably quite complex, but figured might as well put them all in. I'm just wondering how can i master eating with a knife and fork? I've never really been shown these and to ask now at home or anything i would be embarrassed.
I know these might be difficult questions, but i have wanted to post them for a while, but just never got round to it, i hope that if you are replying you will please try and be understanding and patient, as these are not the easiest things for me to talk about as i'm sure you will understand, noone likes to talk about areas they're not good in.
Any help would be very much appreciated, andd thanks for reading
Pisces

## Post 2 by cumbiambera2005 (i just keep on posting!) on Tuesday, 10-Feb-2009 2:49:34

Hi Pisces,
Yes, I agree, no one likes to talk about things they are not good at, weaknesses, or things they need to work on, especially when they feel they might be judged by those aspects. As for me, I don't really strive for acceptance, but to strengthen myself and to be better in my abilities, and follow my dreams and goals.
I find these questions are very good ones, as these seem to be things I have trouble with myself. Eating with a knife and fork is a challenge if you were not taught how by patient, understanding parents, but still expected to do so. At least that is the case for me. So as far as cutting, I don't really bother eating things that involve me to cut them, unless someone like my grandma is willing to do them for me. If it is an instance where I am on my own, i just try to cut them the best way I can, and if it's for others, i try to seek assistance. I know this is not the way to go, and I eventually plan to learn to cut efficiently, but the challenge is not the actual cutting part, but finding someone who's willing to show you how to do it, that has enough patience to explain the matter. One thing I might suggest is that when you are in a public restaurant, or something of a formal setting, try to eat something that is not messy. At least that's what I do! If I'm in a situation where I know I have to be self-conscious of my eating habbits, I usually try and order something like a hamburger, so that way I dont have to worry about cutting, making too much mess, etc.
As for spreading, well, another of my weaknesses. i dont usually eat things like jam, but I do like peanut butter sanwiches, and so lately I've been finding myself more eager to eat them, and have since had the opportunity to practice. I think I've gotten better at it than when I was little, but I still haven't quite got the hang of it. I'm not a big fan of the "zoning technique", it takes too long! I haven't made sanwiches like that for anyone else but myself, so I just kind of touch it to see how much peanut butter is on it, anyway I am the one eating it so it shouldn't matter. I'm not really sure how to go about it if I was making toast or sandwiches for someone else though, since i haven't quite experienced that. But one thing I can tell you, whether you are cooking for yourself, or for someone else, sometimes you just have to get your hands messy! There's just no way around it! Just make sure to keep your hands clean so if and when you do have to touch the food, it wont pass germs.
I don't use the stove or kettle often, because I am afraid of heat. This is also something I plan to work on eventually, but I think it's just a matter of trial and error, and experience, and just someone who will be willing to show you how to go about it. Preferably a vocational rehab teacher since they can relate more easily. So again, not a whole lot I can say on this issue, due to my lack of propper experience. However, I do make my own coffee. I warm up water in the microwave, and then put coffee grains in it, and sugar, and mix. The rest of my family uses the kettle, but I'm just not a big fan of it since I dont know how to use it, or better yet, I'm just not comfortable pouring out of it without making a mess. I try to use the microwave as much as possible, since I find it easier to use and faster too! Again, I think this is just something I'll be able to start working on in time.
Anyway, hope this helps a little, sorry I couldn't really be of more assistance. But I just want you to know that I can relate, and these are things that are not easy to talk about, it really takes a lot of guts to come out and admit you're having problems with things like this.
The best of luck,
Ashley

## Post 3 by Harmony (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Tuesday, 10-Feb-2009 3:54:03

I normally try to get things that don't need cutting much or I try to cut it up as best I can myself. For buttering toast and things, I'm not very good at getting enough butter on the knife, but I sort of put the butter on with the flat side and spread it with the sharper bit. Also, for making hot drinks, I normally use my finger if it's for myself, but have used liquid level indicators as well. I don't really cook much for other people though.
OK. I'm not very good at explaining things sometimes, so hope this helps.

## Post 4 by Shadow_Cat (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Tuesday, 10-Feb-2009 6:57:46

Hi, Pisces. I'll try and take these in order.
1. Butter and things like it are tricky. If you know how to do it already, then the only thing I can recommend is practice, and more practice. I'm stil not extremely great at spreading things like that, but I'm better than I was, and I'll probably get better as I do it more often. If you're worried about how you're doing it, is there a trusted sighted person you could ask to watch you, and give you pointers? Or, a trusted blind one who can do it well that you can compare techniques with? Maybe they could show you better ways.
2. As far as pouring really hot water...The way I do it is listening to the sound as I pour. Often the pouring makes a different noise as the cup gets fuller. Or, sometimes you can tell how full it is by feeling the outside of the cup, and where the heat is. If the cup is only about half-full, then the top half of the cup will be far cooler than the bottom one. If you want a technological solution to this problem, I've heard you can buy liquid level indicators at stores that sell products for the blind, like Independent Living Aids, etc.
3. Now, to eating with silverware...The only suggestionI can give is what I said back on number 1. Is there a trusted friend, either sighted or blind, who you wouldn't be quite so embarrassed to ask about this? I mean, people can give you suggestions here, and maybe others will. But quite honestly, the best way is to have someone who you can feel their hands, to see how they're doing it, and they can watch you, and give you pointers and/or corrections.
Hope I helped at least a little bit.

## Post 5 by pisces_dreamer (Veteran Zoner) on Tuesday, 10-Feb-2009 8:46:28

Thanks so much for everyone's replies so far, its reassuring to know i'm not on my own, i've always just had this idea that everyone is better than me, but maybe its just that people dont talk about things. keep the replies coming!

## Post 6 by flcomputergeek (Its my opinion, take it or leave it. ) on Tuesday, 10-Feb-2009 9:10:21

I have cerebral palsy; so sometimes that makes things more challenging for me.
1. I was taught by a teacher at one of those summer programs at a school for the blind to spread using the back of the spoon. It does seem to be easier than using a knife, but I havent spread anything in awhile so its hard to remember.
2. If I am pouring any liquid, I put my hand on the outside of the glass near the top but not on the rim. the temperature of the glass changes as the liquid fills the glass so when the hot or cold temperature reaches my hand, I know to stop pouring. I have found this method of pouring to be the most reliable for me.
3. Like Pices, my family tried, and still tries to tell me how they think I should eat by screaming at me and belittling me. I use silverware properly, and all the food gets into my mouth, so why should it matter if I bend my elbow or not, or scoop rice with a fork when they think Ishould use a spoon, etc. One day I brought blindfolds home from work and made them all eat a lasagna dinner blindfolded. It helped temporarily. My CP makes cutting really difficult. When I go out, I order things like sandwiches that Iwont need to cut, or something that is served with the meat cut, like beef tips. I'm embarrassed to ask anyone other than family to help me cut things, but when I've been in a restaurant where I've needed something cut, I explain to the waiter that I have cerebral palsy and ask to have the meat cut before its served to me. I try to have sandwiches cut in half, because most of the time I have to eat with one hand and its easier for me to manage. mini burgers are a good option for eating out as well.

## Post 7 by motifated (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Tuesday, 10-Feb-2009 9:31:33

You might try cutting something like a hot dog to start with. Start with spearing it with the fork, and putting the knif between the fork tines. The trick I find is cutting things in appropriate sized pieces. If I'm tired or hungry or just plain in a hurry, I get in trouble with this part. Also, start practicing cutting with only one thing on the plate. This way, you won't send the mashed potatoes or peas all over the table. This may sound childish, but you can take some of what we used to call play-do and try to fashion a meat patty out of it. Make it fairly thick, so you can feel the patty with the silverware. You can then practice on something without wasting real food. Good luck, and you should be aplauded for your honesty with yourself and others.
Lou

## Post 8 by Ukulele<3 (Try me... You know you want to.) on Tuesday, 10-Feb-2009 11:58:41

yes. I find that spreading with the back of the spoon helps as well. However, I have bought bagles at duncan Doughnuts with cream cheese and they don't give me a spoon so this is what I do.
1. take your knife and half the cream cheese in that little cup dd gives you and slide it out.
2. Plop it on one side of your bagle at the 12 o'clock position.
3. Cut that piece of cream cheese in half and plop the other half on the 6 o'clock position. This way, you can have an equal amount on each side of your bagle.
4. Take your knife and scrape it along the upper half of your bagle from right to left or which ever way you feel comfortable with. The edge scrapes while the flat part of your knife presses the cream cheese onto the bagle. lol You've gotta practice this part. One tip is to not go all the way to the edge. Just use the point of the knife to go to the edge once you've finished. Do this a couple of times.
5. Repeat the process with the bottom half and you've got one side done.
6. Take out the other half of the cream cheese in the little cup and repeat the process on the other half of the bagle.
I hope this helps.
Oh yeah. Softened Cream cheese works way better but usually the heat of the bagle makes it soft. Same with butter, having it at room temp helps.
Now for your second question. Pouring boiling water is so much easier with the kettle because it's got a spout. What I always do is I pour very slowly. I can hear the pitch better when I do this. Try taking the kettle and practice with cold water first. Once you've mastered pouring cold water with it, it's so much easier to pour with hot water. Some people let the kettle/jug rest on the table while they pour but I don't suggest that because you might accidentally tilt your mug/glass over. Completely lift the kettle up with your right hand, feel with your left hand where the spout/opening is and direct it in the middle of your cup. Now grasp the top left side of your cup with your left hand and pour very very slowly. When I know I am close to the top but not quite there, I stop pouring then pour a little then stop, then pour a little. lol Don't ask me why I do this but I do. haha Even with pouring cold things like juice and soda I still do it. lol It works for me though. haha
As for cutting things, I absolutely love cutting. lol Omg! That just sounded so emo! haha I always ask my fiance if I can cut his pancakes for him when we go out for breakfast. He never knew how to before and I showed him my technique the CCB taught us and it works for him.
1. Take your fork with your right hand and survey your steak or pancake to see how big it actually is.
2. Starting at 6 o'clock, move your fork about an inch or so in and stick your fork tines into your steak/pancake. The fork should be standing straight up with the tines going from left to right. The back of the fork is also facing away from you.
3. Hold and gently push your fork straight down with your left hand and pick up your knife with your right hand and cut along the back of your fork going from left to right.
4. Now you will have a long thin slice to work with. If it's too long, you can always repeat the process. I like to cut everything up before I eat so I can consentrate on eating and not have to worry about cutting it while I'm eating.
Don't ever be afraid to ask for help. Yes. You may feel ashamed but there are things that I am sure you can do that others can't. I for instance can't cook a pancake or waffle to save my life. I am always too anxious and flip it too soon or too complacent and don't flip it till it's as hard as a crust. haha This is why we go out for breakfast when we are craving pancakes. My sister bought me a waffle iron but I always make a mess when I make them. I put too much batter in the thing or not enough and the waffles aren't whole waffles but broken up ones. lol But I wish you luck and if you have any other questions, feel free to ask and if I know the answer, I will try to help you.
Michelle

## Post 9 by voiceofjoy (Veteran Zoner) on Sunday, 15-Feb-2009 15:45:29

helo:) by reading this thread i got alot of answers to thins i've wondered aobut too
but i gt one thing about hte boliling water-thing:
I also listen, but what i do to amke sure i wont poor boiling water on my hands was acutally two things..
1. boil water in a regular pan/caserole.
2. take a small ladle, one that is smaller than the top ofthe cup you'll add the water in.
3. ake water from the pan in the ladle, lift it and user your other hand to fel lthere the cup it.
4. lower the ladle down into the cup a littlebit, and then tilt it so the water poors out.
works, a little complicated, but does work..
my other methode is to use your hand to make sure the opening is ahove the cup. then move your hand down and pour. now, i do feel with my hand how much water it is + listen to the sound.
talking of spreadings on bread..
i have never tried using the back of a spoon to even thigns out, but i supose that would work great :) but i have used a spoon .. maybe a tea-spoon to meassure the ammount i use :)
- greetings from Ran/voiceofjoy

## Post 10 by wildebrew (We promised the world we'd tame it, what were we hoping for?) on Sunday, 15-Feb-2009 20:44:45

1. Switch to mustard, less fat and it comes in squeezable bottles (seriously, I much prefer it by now, lol). Also, when you have a hot bagle or hot bun I just jam a bunch of butter into the middle with the tip of a knife and then squish the bun or the halves of the bagle together to spread the butter or cream cheese (may want to split the cream cheese in two as suggested above). I can do the fancy buttering thing but this is practical, simple and quick and doesn't get your hands all messy. Also, if you want to do the whole buttering ceremony may be microwave the butter for a sec or leave it out so it warms up a little, it's much easier to manipulate in semi melted state.
2. Just use one of those kettles that are made of plastic and biol the minute you put them in their "stand", the water heats and boils, the plastic on the outside is still cold, no problem. Then make sure you have big cups made of thick glass, not ones you need to fill up completely like the coffee cups, then you can safely pour, use finger and steam to judge the liquid level or just use sound and guestimate it. You can also, if you want to spend $60 or so, get elecric hot water dispensers, basically put the cup underneath a dispenser and push a button and you'll get hot water.
3. With regards to cutting and silverwear, get a set of steak knives, they are so much better for cutting practically everything, make sure there's a little saw blade on the knife. You can get a good set of 4 for around $20 at any department store and they're well worth the investment. Indian and Italian restaurants are great for job interviews and the like, good food and it generally comes already cut up. I love steaks but have no illution of delicacy as I cut them, if I am totally relaxed I just put my hand on the steak to help me estimate the bite size and cut. I find the biggest problem cutting the meat with a bunch of other hooplah on the plate so preferably cut the meat before you add your gravy and mashed taters and what not. I also find salmon and tuna and other fish much much easier to cut without making a huge mess, which makes them a good choice at restaurants, at least if you want to appear professional and do not feel like the saucage pasta.
cheers
-B

## Post 11 by jamesk (This site is so "educational") on Sunday, 15-Feb-2009 21:16:04

Hi,
as far as pouring goes, I'd go along with everyone else and just feel the side of the cup as well as listening to the level of the liquid in the cup.
As far as using silverware goes, hold the knife in your dominant hand and the fork in your less dominant hand. use the fork tines to feel the food your cutting and the size of bite you want to cut off.
Practice cutting a piece of French toast or pancake at first.
hold the fork with the tines facing away from you and cut behind the tines once you have felt for and estimated the size of bite you want to cut off.

## Post 12 by MDN1988 (the Zone BBS remains forever my home page) on Monday, 16-Feb-2009 7:16:23

Hi. I have had these same problems also, but over time and with a lot of practice I have found my ways of dealing somewhat with these issues, although sometimes I still have trouble.
With spreading things, I do what others have said about using the flat part of the knife to put it on there and then use the sharp edge to spread, and if the food is for me I feel to make sure I got it even. I used not to like feeling it because it got my hands messy, but I found that I have a hard time knowing if I did it right without feeling it, unless of course I am making it for someone else then I try not to.
As for hot liquids I use my finger and put my middle finger right at the rim of the cup as well as listen to the sound. I have gotten better ethan I used to be at this, but I remember when I first started learning how to pour hot liquids I would always spill it, especially since my friend was trying to teach me how and her tea kettle was completely metal so I couldn't touch the spout before I poured to know where it was.
Now for my coffee I use a coffee pot and it is less awkward than using an all-metal tea kettle that you put on the stove. They also have electric tea kettles you can buy.
Also, my friend was telling me about a coffee maker he has that all you do is put the cup under it and it makes the coffee and you push it against the spout and the coffee comes out in to your cup, kind of like one of those drink machines or something. It is made by Hamilton Beach and is called Brew Station and the serial number is 47214. He got his at Walmart, but they have them online as well. It sounded cool when he told me about it.
As far as cutting things, when I am in an informal setting, I kind of just use my fork to cut things, although I kind of know how to cut with a knife and fork, but it is a lot harder for me that way and I make more of a mess.
Some of you were talking about making pancakes and waffles. I don't know how to do that either, so I usually just buy the frozen kind and put them in the toaster, because I really like eating them but am not good at making them.

## Post 13 by pisces_dreamer (Veteran Zoner) on Monday, 16-Feb-2009 15:26:54

thanks everyone, i will b going away soon an will have to try some of what you put down into practice, keep replies coming though this topic is really informative!

## Post 14 by Polka dots and Moonbeams (I've now got the bronze prolific poster award! now going for the silver award!) on Tuesday, 17-Feb-2009 13:28:26

Wow, I just read thew this entire thread; I must say, very informative! It is nice to hear that these things are struggles for most of us. We are not alone!
I too, notice the sound difference when pouring hot liquid. Something I do, when I'm making coaco or a packet of something... I pour the water a quorter or halfway, put my packet in, then stir vigarously. I figure, this way, I'm unlikely to splash or spill, and get the mix thoroughly blended. I then pour the rest of the liquid and maybe do one more gentle stir.
As far as spreading, a couple years back I bought these nice spreaders. They are much wider than a knife, but still can fit inside a peanut butter jar. It makes spreading much easier. *Grin,* I like a lot of peanut butter on my sandwich though.
Oy, I dislike cutting meat. Nine time out of ten, I ask someone to do it for me, and I'm not imbarrassed about it. When there is no bone, I'm more comfortable. I hold the fork with my right hand, spear the meat, run the knife behind the tynes of the fork and cut. I then take that longer piece of meat, and repeat the process to get bite size pieces.
A fun tip for cutting up pancakes and waffles... Use a pizza wheel cutter; works like a charm!

## Post 15 by Ukulele<3 (Try me... You know you want to.) on Wednesday, 18-Feb-2009 14:37:56

:p I buy the fozen pancakes and waffles too. haha Eggo is great! lol and I got one of those awesome water dispensers for my birthday and am so happy about it. lol Hot coco is such a breeze to make now because I don't have to wait till the water boils. I suggest that everyone have these dispensers, especially ones with both cold and hot water settings. And you know, the only chicken on the bone I have eaten have been fried. I just pick it up with my hands. Are you supposed to use a knife and fork with fried chicken? If so, ooops! heheheheheheh When I eat ribs, I spear them with my fork and eat around the bone. I sometimes get barbecue sauce on my nose or chin. lol It's quite embarrassing. *chuckles*

## Post 16 by blw1978 (I'll have the last word, thank you!) on Thursday, 19-Feb-2009 16:51:07

Hi, spreading things just takes practice, as does boiling water. I'm a bit concerned though, about the number of posters here who have trouble eating and cutting certain foods. Here's a brief lesson on how to hold silverware as I was taught. First, hold a knife in your hand with two or three fingers wrappearound the knife but with your second finger held straight along the top of the handle. For forks/spoons, hold your hand so that your fingers are in a curled position, but vertically, like grasping a vertical handle of a door. Uncurl them, then place the handle of your fork/spoon between your second and third finger. The handle will be flat against your bottom finger. This position takes some getting used to, but once you do, you'll wonder how you ever held silverware differently. When out with sighted individuals, believe me, they notice this stuff. Never be afraid to aask for help. Would you rather ask a seemingly dumb question, or look like an idiot out in public. Just something to think about. Write back with any questions. Sorry, the tips are very abreviated, but maybe this will give everyone some idea on how to use silverware properly. HTH

## Post 17 by blw1978 (I'll have the last word, thank you!) on Thursday, 19-Feb-2009 16:55:58

Hi, as for spreading butter, it is most helpful to use the flat part of the knife for spreading rather than the serrated edge. Maybe that's why some of you are having trouble. Yes, butter/cream cheese works best at room temperature. Same goes for jelly. Hth

## Post 18 by turricane (happiness and change are choices ) on Sunday, 22-Feb-2009 9:47:30

this is an interesting group of questions. I hope what I am going to say is not repeated by others.
Most of us who are blind are tought to do stuff at least at some point by someone who was educated as a home economist. This form of teaching stresses hygiene and never ever to touch your food. Chefs on the other hand are tought that cooking is a multisensory experience. This includes touching what you will be eating. Of course basic common sense hygene is important. My son is a professional cook and an addict of the food network. He said it is amazing how many of the sighted people on there have their hands all over everything. No Mrs. Cottin, the woman who taught me to cook originally and was the bain of my existance, was all over them telling them not to touch. A good friend of mine once said that asking a blind person not to touch what they are cooking is like asking her to do the same thing with her glasses off. unfair.
i use the spread butter that comes in a tub and a spoon. lazy but I'm in a hurry most of the time. ditto with peanutbutter. the spoon is more efficient and quicker.
as for the cutting food in public, the most embarrassing moment in my life was at a very formal banquet I attended. The entree was cornish game hen in a messy sauce. I was a speaker and at the head table. I heard the people around me commenting on the delicious bird and thought "good god i didn't go to med school. How the heck will I handle this one. well guess I'll pretend to be a vegetarian." My plate was the last one out The waiter said to me softly "this is a wonderful dish. I asked the chef to cut it for you. I hope you don't mind." I thanked him pprofoundly and said I was impressed with his sensitivity. I could have cried. Asking for help is never bad. It is my experience that watching us make a mess is more painful for our sighted companions then having them help us.

## Post 19 by Siriusly Severus (The ESTJ 1w9 3w4 6w7 The Taskmaste) on Friday, 05-Jun-2009 18:29:48

1 butter:
Well, see you either to know the amount or do it in small quanties until you are done. Less here is better so you don't waste it. Grabb a little bit spread that first and put more if necessary. Memorize about how much you needed, and put that amount or try to next time.
2 Hot stuff.
Ah, I deal with this one all the time. I tend to be cautious but you can't be too cautious that you don't get your hand on it. You need fairly fast reflex and quickness. Now. Fill the water pot, cup or whatever it is with hot water till the point you think is full. again under estamating is better then over. Another good thing I do, is keep it away from you. don't keep it close, as if it spills it's not on you, it's on the ground and you can just wipe up later. Now, when you think you have enough, stick one finger in until you touch the water briefley, mind wash up before pouring, like you are supposed to anyways or you could potentially contaminate the drink or whatever it is. Now, If it's full great, don't pour any more and if it's more do it, with more estamating. Now, when touching it, do it quickly so it doesn't burn too long, only make contact with the hot stuff for a second or so. pull away fast. Yes, touching sticky stuff is sometimes necessary, just wash up.
3 Cutting:
Have someone do hand over hand.