# JAWS 15

Category: Geeks r Us

## Post 1 by Ed_G (Zone BBS is my Life) on Thursday, 05-Sep-2013 15:12:44

For those of you who think that JAWS 15 is the world's leading screen reader, I thought you might be interested in the new features in JAWS 15 as revealed on the Freedom Scientific podcast. More details on their website obviously.
JAWS 15 will support Windows 8.1 due for release around October. The public beta of JAWS 15 due early this month should support the preview version. JAWS 14 will be updated to support Windows 8.1.
Touch screen support for Windows 8 and above. THis is done through a new touch cursor, meaning that touch gestures can also be replicated on the keyboard, such as swiping left, right, up and down, along with double tapping. Other touch gestures from iOS such as the rotor have made it in.
Something called vocaliser expressive: This caters for indicating a capital letter with a higher pitch, and there are some new voices. The Vocaliser Direct voices will only work with JAWS 14 and other FS products, not JAWS 15.
uPdated version of FS Reader, which will present DAISY books navigation similarly to HTML. Books are also updated in there instead of through the check for updates feature, you'll be told if a new book is available when you open one.
new feature called speech history, which will enable you to walk back through what the synthesiser said in case you missed a message, showing the last 50 strings sent to the synthesiser. You'll be able to copy and paste the messages.
Updated Skype support. Adds some of the functionality from Doug Lee's script, but doesn't include or replace them in full.
braille drivers installed as part of JAWS 15.
Auto-detection of Braille displays so that the display is automatically detected whenever you disconnect and reconnect a display.
Some Braille preferences included in the startup wizard.
Changes to structured mode so that Braille cells aren't unnecessarily taken up by status cells etc.
Error reporting to send stuff to Freedom Scientific.
Changes to quick keys: Radio buttons changed from r to a. R is now aria region, q is main region.
Automatic updates for German, Spanish and possibly French versions of JAWS.

## Post 2 by Espking (Zone BBS is my Life) on Friday, 06-Sep-2013 13:17:42

awsum!

## Post 3 by forereel (Just posting.) on Friday, 06-Sep-2013 17:02:54

Due to the beta being released later, what is your opinion on the release time for the final version?
Normally we get to play with it in August, but not this year.

## Post 4 by Espking (Zone BBS is my Life) on Friday, 06-Sep-2013 20:35:15

I'm afraid the final version won't be released until 2014.

## Post 5 by season (the invisible soul) on Saturday, 07-Sep-2013 2:15:08

unfortunately, all these so call new features are not a real new features or such. Granted, the touch justures seems new, and improve, but other than that, nothing that will turn someone excited enough to have an orgasm or such. Yet, another freedom Scientific Scam for people to use or waste another SMA for the upgrade.
I seriously think, Mike and Jamie from NVDA do a better job than a bunch of so call professionals paied developers of SF. Shame

## Post 6 by Ed_G (Zone BBS is my Life) on Saturday, 07-Sep-2013 4:03:58

Hi Wayne,
Fourth quarter of 2013 apparently.

## Post 7 by forereel (Just posting.) on Saturday, 07-Sep-2013 10:39:43

Seems to be about the regular schedule. I've not read the news letters, but was interested to run the beta to see if I like the changes or not.

## Post 8 by Smiling Sunshine (I've now got the bronze prolific poster award! now going for the silver award!) on Saturday, 07-Sep-2013 10:52:03

I'm just trying to figure out if it'll work similarly to voice over where you can actually use the touch jestures on the screen. I've heard yes and I've heard no.

## Post 9 by Ed_G (Zone BBS is my Life) on Saturday, 07-Sep-2013 15:59:00

Hi,
From what I could gather from the podcast, it will work almost identically to an iPhone with an external keyboard connected in that you can either use the screen or the keyboard.
What was interesting is that they said it worked better with some tablets/touch screens than others, so it doesn't sound like the experience will be consistent for everyone.

## Post 10 by BigDogDaddy (Help me, I'm stuck to my chair!) on Saturday, 07-Sep-2013 16:58:40

I'd expect this to be available right around the time MS releases 8.1 pretty much been the norm for the past several releases.
Nothing earth shattering in this release, from what I can tell.

## Post 11 by Espking (Zone BBS is my Life) on Saturday, 07-Sep-2013 17:49:27

the "vocalizer expressive" synth was perhaps the most interesting of these features. I'm not a windows 8 user because my comp is very old and can't handel it, it doesn't really have a touch screen. the only reason I even wanted to try windwows 8 was to use the Microsoft david voice in my short series "loquendo steven adventures" (which I plan on uploading to youtube), to serve as a second antagonist (the first being Toshiba's mail adult voice, referred to in the series as "radar overseer brendon";a paroty of "radar overseer skotty" from the Microsoft sam videos)

## Post 12 by Smiling Sunshine (I've now got the bronze prolific poster award! now going for the silver award!) on Saturday, 07-Sep-2013 19:07:41

Hmm, well, my computer has a 10-point multitouch screen so we shall see.

## Post 13 by Espking (Zone BBS is my Life) on Sunday, 08-Sep-2013 11:20:31

take that, NVDA!

## Post 14 by Ed_G (Zone BBS is my Life) on Sunday, 08-Sep-2013 11:23:47

To be fair, NVDA has had touch screen support since Windows 8 was released, so JAWS is a year behind in that regard.

## Post 15 by forereel (Just posting.) on Sunday, 08-Sep-2013 11:39:26

I don't have access to a computer with a touch screen although I run windows 8 so can't say about either NVDA or Jaws.
I'm wondering if the benefits will be worth buying a new monitor for my desktop that will support the feature, so I'll have to find someone with one to text it out.
I'd think Windows 8 would be a great upgrade even for an older system, due to it being low resources. The touch feature wouldn't work, but the OS should even improve your systems abilities.

## Post 16 by Smiling Sunshine (I've now got the bronze prolific poster award! now going for the silver award!) on Sunday, 08-Sep-2013 11:49:50

Wayne, I've got a touch screen on this machine so if you want, let me know how I can help.

## Post 17 by forereel (Just posting.) on Sunday, 08-Sep-2013 17:06:08

When Jaws comes available, please write your findings, and your views.
If you now use NVDA, please write your opinion of the touch ability.
For a sighted person, you can simply reach out, put your finger on a program, and open, move it and such things.
Now, if you are blind, you first have to locate what you want to open or move similar to using an iPhone or iPad, than you can open or move it.
Windows 8 has different colors for things on the metro screen, so that also gives a sighted person quick visual access, but all things are not available to a person that can not use vision.
My thoughts are, it is just as fast to use your keyboard, and put things on your desktop, like I have now, so that when I want something, I simply type the first letter of that thing, and I'm there if I don't have several programs with the same letter start.
So I wonder, what would be the use, and if you didn't already have one, why pay the extra cost for the screen with this ability?
I’ve been thinking about a possible use for touch screen features in screen readers, NVDA and Jaws.
If you had a Microsoft Surface Pro tablet, that runs a full version of Windows, you should be able to install a screen reader on that product.
Has anyone tried this with NVDA, or knows if it is possible?

## Post 18 by season (the invisible soul) on Sunday, 08-Sep-2013 23:46:32

for the poster who ask about the similarity of Vo and Jaws15 touch justures, i have a friend who beta testing for jaws15 confirm that its exactly the same if not mostly the same as to VO justures. It will be interesting to see if FS will get sue by Apple for it. Now, that will make a change if that happen. However, logicly and from the business point of view, i don't think Apple will take this path, as it will make Apple looks rather bad, suing a company that mainly supporting the so call blind community by sucking out their money and providing a 50/50% products.

## Post 19 by forereel (Just posting.) on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2013 11:33:49

I guess without even knowing, I was correct about using the touch features with Microsoft tablets. That opens up our choices of devices we can own.
I also noticed as posted, they've used Apple's patterns. On one hand, that makes sense, and is good for us as users. It is a good thing to keep things same, so we don't have to relearn each device.
I also doubt Apple will get upset about it, and we don't know if Freedom Scientific got their permission or not, but that will be an interesting thing to watch for.

## Post 20 by Striker (Consider your self warned, i'm creative and offensive like handicap porn.) on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2013 17:54:33

It is a bit ironic that they just lifted apples way of doing things, after attacking other screen reader venders so vigorously a few years back.

## Post 21 by season (the invisible soul) on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2013 21:43:22

Yes James, agree totally. They just making excuse for their user to get lazy, and not doing much work themselves. If everyone coppying each other, where does inovation goes as far as screen reader is concern? Oh hang on, never mind. There's no inovation on Freedom Scientific anyway. The only inovation they get is by suing others. Will be nice to see they got sue, by others, for a change.

## Post 22 by forereel (Just posting.) on Tuesday, 10-Sep-2013 21:47:36

I'd like to know how that came about.
When they attacked other screen readers, they were I assume protecting their market.
Wigh Apple, there is no competition as I see it.
Apples products works just fine on Apple products, and Jaws won't.
You can't put Voice Over on a Windows based machine.
No one as I see it, is going to suddenly start dumping iPads, for Surface Pros in the blind community, so Apple wasn't threatened at all.
We can't even say at this point how good the touch feature works on the Surface, but we know how Apples screen reader works on the iPad.
I'm now running 15 beta, so well see.
I still don't have a touchscreen, so I'm not going to be one of the 6 customers to dump my iPad to get a Surface, just to learn that maybe I should have stayed with what worked. Smile.

## Post 23 by forereel (Just posting.) on Wednesday, 11-Sep-2013 11:02:26

What if Apple got the idea of a setting center from FS?
Suppose the companies had a meeting of minds and decided to make screen reader touch screen controls same, due to it being better for the blind, not a technology worth fighting about, so swapped ideas?
Just for you Joanne!
Smile.

## Post 24 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Wednesday, 11-Sep-2013 13:54:26

I have used some of the new touch features in JAWS 15 without a touch screen, and it has some really neat object navigation sort of like NVDA but more advanced I guess. I discovered it by accident by pressing the PC cursor, but had leaned on the shift key with my left hand, it woke up the Touch Cursor. Once in there I just used insert h to see what keys they had if any, and was quite surprised with the amazing results.
I pushed shift and num pad plus to start the Touch Cursor from nearly anywhere, even Windows 7 provided their Windows functionalities work, and then from their insert h help layer found they have a advanced mode. You get there using the star key on the num pad or right mouse button. Then, you can do exactly like NVDA and go from parent to child to sibling moving around in objects to see what is there. Of course you can do it without the Advanced mode, and it uses some sort of algorithm to decide what the left and right arrows will do, plus use page up and down to select options like a rotor for which the up and down arrows will act on. Some places where the JAWS cursor will go blank blank blank you can use this new touch cursor.
Oh and also if you turn that mode on you just press the PC Cursor to turn it off.
Within the Touch Cursor their Quick keys or whatever they call the single letter key combinations for jumping from item type to item type do work, only on new and different elements.
The way they've done these navigation type things is all new, somewhat similar to NVDA but in fact it does a whole lot more.
For any adults who are interested in an intelligent review of what they have, I'd suggest downloading it to see what you think. I can see ways in which their new mode will be really useful for some places where it can work, and as I said I found out the interesting way on a Windows 7 machine which is what I happen to have.
Oh and if you land on something with the touch cursor that you want to activate, seems like space or enter will just do that. I haven't looked at the gestures as I don't have a touch screen, but again, this was more a surprise and something of interest.
My response is this: I think it's just another tool in the list of tools we can use in the working world outside of your schools and things, where most the time software doesn't work right, most the time you need to do several things to try and get something to function.
I'll admit I spent a lot more time than I initially anticipated, thinking I was just going to give it a look. I have no opinion of any of the companies, I am simply using the tools as they are to get the job done.
I, for one, am glad for any additional tools that any manufacturer makes. I use the NVDA navigator all the time. I know some on here make fun of JAWS cursors or Windows Eyes Cursors and things, but back in the 90s, the JAWS Cursor saved my job. Even now it still helps me a ton. I imagine Voiceover has similar orienting types of things, as probably every product does. But now with the new touch cursor thing I feel like it's really got some options that may help out in a pinch. For those of us, anyway, who don't spend our time telling others to make things work for us.
And I don't care what company it is that made it. When NVDA came out with the object navigator, I heard some saying that product wouldn't be around or it wouldn't work right. And it does. I have no doubt this fancier one from FS will probably come in handy sometimes.
Anyway just wanted to put this out there. Someone I know told me everything about this new mode is exposed in scripts so that consultants or whoever can utilize it wherever the newer accessibility layers exist in Windows.
A note about the patents or trademarks:
None of us knows really what agreements were made. Most people at the company itself would not know. Contrary to your dearest fantasies, patent enforcement is only the province of the legal department, though the CEO may have some sway depending on the company in question. But certainly not the developers. Never have I seen a software developer involved in patent lawsuits. Speaking of CEOs, a recent article someone sent me recently said FS has a new one. A new CEO can mean changes.
Also, gestures and keystrokes have a hard time being patented. Any of you remember Apple trying to sue over the swipe to unlock feature? It was a failure.
Most of you weren't born yet when Apple tried to sue Microsoft over keyboard commands in a graphical user interface. Again, a failure. Had Apple won that, you would not be able to push control o to open a file now. This back and forth has always plagued the software industry and many other industries as well.
The real failure is our patent system to begin with. A patent is useless to you unless you can defend it in court.
I personally have my own opinions on patents in the technology industry, which mirror those that my biologist brother has about bio-sciences patents. But in both our cases they are based on scientific knowledge and pragmatism, not some fantasy that results in a lot of teenage name calling.
It always pays to fantasize a little less and explore a little more.
Today kiddies are complaining about FS, tomorrow they'll complain about Apple or someone else. Recently a teenager complained that the iPhone hadn't seen any real innovation in soooo long. So I told her, Go ahead then: take it to your mother or father and tell them you don't need it anymore, and while they're at it, they don't need to pay for your phone bill anymore either. Had she been an adult instead, I'm sure she would have just shopped for a different product, maybe a Galaxy or something, and left the iPhone behind if that is what she wanted. Without the drama and fanfare we all expect of teenagers.

## Post 25 by Striker (Consider your self warned, i'm creative and offensive like handicap porn.) on Wednesday, 11-Sep-2013 14:54:41

Leo, I didn't write that last from the perspective of FS is evil. My thought was basically "Why didn't they do more to differentiate after complaining about other screen reader manufacturers not doing so?" then, I turned it in to a snarky comment, rather than one that could have been actually explored. If i'd provided more context to my thoughts/reasoning, it probably wouldn't have looked so bad.
after hearing demos of the feature, and particularly the keyboard part of it, I can honestly say, These will be new features with a vast use case. Combine the touch screen nag with jaws OCR and you're good to go. Yes, i'm a bit critical of FS, though i'm a bit critical of a few companies.
Though, i'll admit a big part of my problem with jaws back in the day, anyway, was running it on machines that the school provided cheaply, which didn't have good enough video hardware inside to really let jaws do its thing.
On the up side, means i'll be able to use windows in a lot of similar ways I use my mac now.

## Post 26 by forereel (Just posting.) on Wednesday, 11-Sep-2013 15:07:28

Leo, Joanne, and the others are not teens that are writing on this board. Smile. Joanne is old enough to be your wife, have kids, and even a ten of her own.
She is not knee jerking due to her ideas of complaining, she has some reasons.
Doesn't make her right, but I love teasing her and debating with her, because she is so passionate about them.
She’s going to sue FS last week, if she has her way. Smile.
Also, much of what you posted is written in the’s new on Freedom's web page.
I've played with it, and find it handy for using on the home screen apps on Windows 8. Kind of fun.
Now, if I could get Jaws on a Windows phone? *sigh*

## Post 27 by forereel (Just posting.) on Wednesday, 11-Sep-2013 15:08:49

I forgot. I still don't see the use for it on a PC, except for the apps that were not accessible completely before in Windows 8. More time will tell.

## Post 28 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Wednesday, 11-Sep-2013 15:18:18

Also something to consider is those who made decisions earlier may not even be there now. And while FS is a corporate entity, the various parts of it manage things differently.
I hadn't been thinking of your comment in particular though I notice my comments do get you to respond as though I was thinking of you exclusively. The time-worn expression of if the shoe fits, I guess. Though I hadn't been thinking of yours exclusively.
I understand problems from back in the day. Back in the day, I gave technical support to the teeming masses on Windows 95 A (the first release). But I would not say Microsoft operating systems are all plagued with Internet issues because Windows 95 A was.
In fact, like most companies, the technology and staff have changed a lot over the years since then. I'm not comparing the current Ford Models against the 1988 Taurus which was a wreck of a car. That is simply illogical.
It's difficult to remember that a company's people might change, especially in an obviously emotionally charged situation rich with fantasy and wild wonder like the assistive technology industry apparently is.

## Post 29 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Wednesday, 11-Sep-2013 15:22:11

there's no real way this touch thing could be used on Windows XP, i gather.
since XP is not a touch interphase like Windows 8 or soon 8.1`. b

## Post 30 by forereel (Just posting.) on Wednesday, 11-Sep-2013 15:24:46

So, upgrade John dear.

## Post 31 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Wednesday, 11-Sep-2013 15:25:54

lol shoulda saw that one coming wayne.

## Post 32 by Smiling Sunshine (I've now got the bronze prolific poster award! now going for the silver award!) on Wednesday, 11-Sep-2013 15:54:25

Lol, yeah, I kinda want to upgrade my Windows 7 machine now. lol Go figure. I was so scared of Windows 8 and now I love it. Jaws 15 sounds pretty cool too. I could download the beta version but haven't decided if I want to yet. I'll probably listen to some podcasts or something before making that leap because it sounds like there'll be quite a few new features as far as navigation.

## Post 33 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Thursday, 12-Sep-2013 10:05:51

I was shocked when I got a Skype call, and got notified who it was and everything, sort of like the third party scripts or Skype Talking. Looks like they integrated some of that, but I was never more than a basic user of the third party scripts.
Anyway the calls and chats all seem to work from a basic sense anyhow.

## Post 34 by forereel (Just posting.) on Thursday, 12-Sep-2013 14:03:05

It helps lots on Windows 8 depending on what you are doing.
It isn't perfect, and somethings chatters to much on Skype, but that should get fixed. I'll be writing it on the report soon as I figure out why it does it and what I do to make it.

## Post 35 by Espking (Zone BBS is my Life) on Thursday, 12-Sep-2013 22:19:23

I'm a bit scared to upgrade to jaws 15. my hard drive is starting to fail, and it takes a monkey of a long time to restart and I have to go ape shit on enter which can be dangerous. And I know it's gonna expire and when it gets to the final release, it won't detect my jaws authorization. since I heard nothing about mom calling fs to change our SMA address to reflect the recent move back to Washington State, It is unclear if I'll even receive an SMA upgrade.

## Post 36 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Thursday, 12-Sep-2013 22:55:10

dude, be smart.
Stop using that HD and get the data off of there!
Get a new HD, install that sucker and make sure all your data gets put onto it.
FS people are pretty good with stuff like that so i'd just call and be sure to give them the new info.
I already found a few bugs and reported them.

## Post 37 by forereel (Just posting.) on Friday, 13-Sep-2013 14:33:23

If you have purchased the SMA for 15 and your drive fails, you still get 15.
If you feel your drive has had it, replace the drive, not only because of Jaws, but all your other data before it stops working.

## Post 38 by Ed_G (Zone BBS is my Life) on Friday, 13-Sep-2013 14:40:42

And don't forget that if you do lose your activation if your hard drive fails and you're running low, you can request a reset at fsactivate.com

## Post 39 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 13-Sep-2013 23:36:54

they are very good about resetting.
even if you have multiple problems, they'll still reset if you call and explain what happend.

## Post 40 by Espking (Zone BBS is my Life) on Saturday, 14-Sep-2013 18:36:36

I've been talking to mom about getting an external drive, but she won't get me one, since not only is she broke but she doesn't want me blowing my SSI just for a new hard drive.

## Post 41 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Saturday, 14-Sep-2013 20:54:04

you dont need to use your entire SSi to grab a drive.
you can get a 3TB external USB 2.0 for less than $130. its western digital elamints d drive.

## Post 42 by forereel (Just posting.) on Sunday, 15-Sep-2013 1:19:23

You don't even need that kind of space. Most computers don't have larger than 1TB and most people don't have that kind of data. I've seen 1TB drives for 50 dollars, and again if your computer is say only 500GB you only need a 500 GB drive.
You could get a USB key for around 20 dollars to back up only your emportant things, say 32 GB or 64 GB. It just depends.
You can also use free cloud storage to put some of it away. Microsoft gives us 25GB, drop box 5GB Google I believe gives 10GB so you've got 40GB free storage.
Next all email services offer unlimited storage.
Say you've got documents you want stored. Simply create a folder, and email them to yourself.
You could even do that with single music files, but I'd not store music that way.
Same with pictures.
If most of your music is say iTunes, or Amazon, here again you've got storage free for it.

## Post 43 by Striker (Consider your self warned, i'm creative and offensive like handicap porn.) on Sunday, 15-Sep-2013 1:44:08

in the end, you're in control of your finances, so do what you see fit.

## Post 44 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 15-Sep-2013 4:30:20

as i see it, its cheaper to by one external 3TB than to fill up a 1TB and by another again

## Post 45 by forereel (Just posting.) on Sunday, 15-Sep-2013 8:01:23

Yes, if you are a data person, that make sense. I'm not a saver of anything much, so for me 3 TB would never get filled.
I've got a 1TB drive on a desktop, and 750 on a laptop, and I have all my data I want on a 32 GB flash drive. It is not full. Smile.
Maybe I should rent space?

## Post 46 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 15-Sep-2013 11:18:48

you wanna rent space from me wayne? lol

## Post 47 by forereel (Just posting.) on Sunday, 15-Sep-2013 12:00:00

Sure. You paying? A dollar a gig okay?
At that rateI could buy a whole new computer. Lol

## Post 48 by Espking (Zone BBS is my Life) on Sunday, 15-Sep-2013 19:00:38

Well mom doesn't want me buying mutch stuff. There was the insedent where I blue my SSI on a bunch of childrens music albums from iTunes. this led to temporary confiscation of my phone and permanent confiscation of my credit card. then I got another card with a $350 limmet from my dad. I used that to get a new computer, which turned out to have a hidden virus that would play youtube videos every time I connect to the internet.

## Post 49 by hardyboy09 (I'm going for the prolific poster awards!) on Monday, 16-Sep-2013 5:18:04

Personally,
I would like to see the invention of a totally touch interface screen reader. Basically, a Mac that only requires the screen to use. You hook up a Bluetooth keyboard to perform word processing and other related tasks. However, interacting with the computer is done mostly through commands on the screen. This would eliminate having to memorize so many keyboard shortcuts which change frequently, due to MS trying to stay competitive.

## Post 50 by starfly (99956) on Monday, 16-Sep-2013 9:15:36

on a mac outside of typing documents you can just use the trackpad and dictate your text.

## Post 51 by hardyboy09 (I'm going for the prolific poster awards!) on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2013 17:30:38

Oh,
I have a Mac but don't really know how to use it.

## Post 52 by Espking (Zone BBS is my Life) on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2013 21:39:18

wasn't a touch-only screen reader already invented by apple when they ported voice over to the Iphone?

## Post 53 by forereel (Just posting.) on Wednesday, 18-Sep-2013 12:57:29

Correct, but Freedom Scientific is not inventing anything, just adding a feature.

## Post 54 by hardyboy09 (I'm going for the prolific poster awards!) on Wednesday, 18-Sep-2013 17:19:01

True, FS is.
It would be great to have a computer that relied specifically on your voice, though. You shouldn't have to memorize thousands of keyboard commands to carry out basic functions.

## Post 55 by Ed_G (Zone BBS is my Life) on Wednesday, 18-Sep-2013 17:33:34

That would be good as long as you were somewhere quiet or where you couldn't be overheard. I'd want an alternative input method for other situations though.

## Post 56 by forereel (Just posting.) on Thursday, 19-Sep-2013 0:40:32

I agree.

## Post 57 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Thursday, 19-Sep-2013 4:28:46

those of us who have hearing impairments aren't always understood so something that rely's on voice only wouldnt' work so well.
if i'm on a phone cal call th that relys on voice, i usually use the touch tones instead.

## Post 58 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Thursday, 19-Sep-2013 10:39:33

Wrong, John. At least for the new dictation applications. People with extreme speech impediments can be understood.
The problem with people with hearing or speech difficulty is only the same problem other people have who are nervous about these devices: they try and talk real slow and deliberate. Just talk as you would ordinarily talk but you're talking to the device. If it doesn't understand you the first time, try again. These devices learn. I know, it's weird talking to a machine. I had to learn it when my hand was all wrapped up due to a staff infection. You are so used to typing. But I have gotten better with time doing dictation and I think everybody should learn how. Someday, in the not too distant future, dictation ability will be like how we view typing ability now.

## Post 59 by forereel (Just posting.) on Thursday, 19-Sep-2013 14:54:50

Dictation would only make us lazier and lack real spelling, and grammar skills. I'd only want that for people that need it, not just for laziness.
I know someone that is ruined due to not learning to type.
Typing is a skill blind people should have along with braille.

## Post 60 by season (the invisible soul) on Friday, 20-Sep-2013 7:15:51

Dictation application/software, e.g. Dragon improves with practice, as it learn and remember on your voice profile. What it does with Dragon is that you need to create a voice profile for each person that use it, even using the same program on the same machine. Everone voice is different. From the tonality, speech, pitch, etc. When you do it one or twice, it will start to create a unique voice profile for you and it will remember and learn your voice, tonality, pitch, as it dictate.
There are more people using dictation application/software compare to people that uses screen reader. In fact, in my university, most people that uses dictation software, Dragon if you really need to know comes with some sort of other impairment, beside physical impairment. This mean, if you have speech dificulty, or speech impairment, you can also successfully use dictation to assist you.

## Post 61 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Friday, 20-Sep-2013 10:45:02

Sadly I in part agree, and in part disagree Wayne.
When my hand was messed up I was told I couldn't type except one handed. I've been advised anyway by some people I know to learn dictation. I had to use it a lot that week and it was miserable and hard. It's way easier to type than to talk it out like that. Well, in truth, it's easier to do what you know. I wanted to be lazy in that instance and hunt and peck with one hand, or worse yet rip the wrapping off and make the best of it.
I'm actually glad I learned dictation, though, and it certainly hasn't changed my typing. But there are things on a touch screen that are quicker when dictated. You have to learn to say punctuation and other things, instead of cursoring backward and editing it all back in manually. That's why I initially thought it was very slow I failed to use the punctuation, and instead would go edit everything.
Also you need to give it small bites, and think of what you need to say before you start recording.
I actually think that people should learn both. Both take practice, lots of practice, only we who type have had decades of practice but only weeks of practice trying to dictate. For any of you who haven't done that yet, I'll tell you this: you'll get mic fright the first time you try it. Oh and when you curse at the machine that is what it will type out for you. lol

## Post 62 by Espking (Zone BBS is my Life) on Friday, 20-Sep-2013 19:21:59

how did we get from jaws to dictation?

## Post 63 by Ed_G (Zone BBS is my Life) on Friday, 20-Sep-2013 19:59:02

Reasonable question Espking. All I can say is that sometimes things wander off topic. Check out post 48 for instance.

## Post 64 by Smiling Sunshine (I've now got the bronze prolific poster award! now going for the silver award!) on Saturday, 21-Sep-2013 17:19:01

Lol, Leo. That's good to know because if I'm not careful, I could see myself sending some very colorful texts. lol
I'm also glad I'm not the only one who types almost as fast as I can think. I just think better when I'm typing. lol Go figure. I'm looking forward to getting more practice though now that my phone has dictation.

## Post 65 by chelslicious (like it or not, I'm gonna say what I mean. all the time.) on Saturday, 21-Sep-2013 19:16:04

I disagree about dictation fast becoming the in thing, if you will.
I don't use it, and don't plan to. I'd much rather type, or in the case of my phone, use the touch screen.

## Post 66 by forereel (Just posting.) on Saturday, 21-Sep-2013 20:46:50

I am not saying it is a bad thing for us that need it, and I even use it from time to time.
What I'm saying, it for us that don't need it, and start at a tender age just dictating, we don't learn as well.
Look at the blind person that only uses speech, for example.

## Post 67 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Saturday, 21-Sep-2013 22:11:28

my dad does that to make a list on his phone of stuff to get at sams, i think i am faster at typing it out... .
plus the last time i tried to talk to his phone it couldn't understand me.
i never tried talkin something more than a few times.... as frankly, i dont care.
on top of that, i'd like to be able to hear what i'm saying as i say it, as i'd most likely use headphones. if i can't hear what i say, i dont talk nearly as clearly.
one other point. if you type people dont have to see you. if you talk people could hear you and what if i dont want the entire world hearing what i say?
oeple

## Post 68 by forereel (Just posting.) on Sunday, 22-Sep-2013 2:08:11

Probably because you keep calling Siri girl!
I read the funnest article about how to talk to these things. Made me laugh.

## Post 69 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 22-Sep-2013 5:25:50

can you post a link to the artical, wayne?

## Post 70 by chelslicious (like it or not, I'm gonna say what I mean. all the time.) on Sunday, 22-Sep-2013 9:53:27

yeah, I'm curious to read it, too.

## Post 71 by forereel (Just posting.) on Sunday, 22-Sep-2013 22:18:01

Sure.
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-19512_7-57599322-233/how-to-talk-to-siri-the-right-way/

## Post 72 by forereel (Just posting.) on Monday, 23-Sep-2013 19:13:51

I joined Microsoft’s conference on the new Surface tablets today, and maybe Apple does have some tough competition, provided Jaws works well on them.
We've got something to really decide on.
The best feature for us I feel, is the ability to snap on a keyboard cover, and use the machine with both the keyboard and jesters at the same time. We can even get a customized snap on cover for say DJ work, mixing music, and other things.
If you are an Office user, they'll come with Office free.
Just like a computer, you can have several accounts on your tablet as well.
Really something to check out for you that are thinking about getting something like this.
I joined Microsoft’s conference on the new Surface tablets today, and maybe Apple does have some tough competition, provided Jaws works well on them.
We've got something to really decide on.
The best feature for us I feel, is the ability to snap on a keyboard cover, and use the machine with both the keyboard and jesters at the same time. We can even get a customized snap on cover for say DJ work, mixing music, and other things.
If you are an Office user, they'll come with Office free.
Just like a computer, you can have several accounts on your tablet as well.
Really something to check out for you that are thinking about getting something like this.

## Post 73 by season (the invisible soul) on Monday, 23-Sep-2013 20:24:22

hm, sorry to say, microsoft and freedom sucker is somewhat 5 years too late. Since the existant of ipad, One already can easily get a magnictic keyboard cover for it. And, there are cases that have purpose build keyboard.
So goes with the Androy tabs. further more, my keyboard cover that i use for the ipad i can also cross use with my Nexus 7 whenever i wish.
In fact, since i have my iPad4 and iPad mini, i'm on both 98% of my time compare to a computer...
Suppose, better than later than never for not so micro not so soft i guess.

## Post 74 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Monday, 23-Sep-2013 23:34:05

wayne they had a confrence on it?
how did you get to join that. was it a special invite?
if not is there archive of the audio?

## Post 75 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Tuesday, 24-Sep-2013 11:56:38

Chelsea, I'm not talking the "in thing" as you call it, only the advancement of technology.
Your comments about dictation remind me of Bill Gates's comments about the Internet in that infamous memo he sent out in 1996.
The practical reason to learn to do dictation is that increasingly, there will be more and more devices that use it, and there have been projections that there will be devices who exclusively use it, including voice print technology which is like the new fingerprint swipes on many laptops and even the new iPhone.

## Post 76 by forereel (Just posting.) on Tuesday, 24-Sep-2013 12:08:59

Dear Joanne, you should check out these covers. Apple has nothing like them at all. Nor do 3RD pardy venders yet.
Again, this is a great thing for us, due to the ability to have a choice no matter how another feels about a company. Choice is the thing.
It is a great time for tech.
John, you can read about them online now. Just do a search, and you'll get plenty info I'm sure.
What makes them available to us, is the fact they run, or can run a full version of Windows, so now we have Jaws able to be used on these.

## Post 77 by chelslicious (like it or not, I'm gonna say what I mean. all the time.) on Tuesday, 24-Sep-2013 13:31:28

if I need to use dictation, I'll do so, the same way I've done with using the touch screen.

## Post 78 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Tuesday, 24-Sep-2013 14:00:46

My original point about dictation is it actually takes time to learn. At least it took me a lot of failed attempts at first to learn it.

## Post 79 by forereel (Just posting.) on Tuesday, 24-Sep-2013 17:41:15

A correction on my statement.
I suppose NVDA works on a Surface as well, but so far I’ve not heard from anyone on its touchscreen abilities.
Freedom Scientific says Jaws works, but again, I have not tested this, nor have I heard how well.

## Post 80 by starfly (99956) on Tuesday, 24-Sep-2013 19:25:15

I can say dictation is not beeing lazy, what if you are in a hurry and need to type your wife or husband a text? I use this feature on my Iphone and android to type out text, in put contacts and emails.

## Post 81 by season (the invisible soul) on Tuesday, 24-Sep-2013 21:50:44

Dictation is a great feature when you have your hands full, e.g. cooking, or anything that require your focus e.g. walking, crossing road, etc. I prefer using dictation when i'm walkingrather than stop at a side and reply to some important messages only be bothered by others assuming me as a lost dog.
In fact, voice reckoniction and finger print detection goes as far as cars security systems etc. There are saying, next security generation will be microchipping to one's body itself. From academic studies, there are some firms in the states already doing it.

## Post 82 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Wednesday, 25-Sep-2013 0:33:39

Wayne, both surfaces (Pro and Pro2) look interesting to me. i felt the keyboard the other day and think though i'd have to get used to it, it'd be better than a PAC Mate by far! hell it could replace the thing.
my only gripe is that it only had one USB port but i could hook a hub. then again, for home use, i'd have to hook up one massive hub LOL .
the pro is coming down in price too, especially since the Surface Pro2 is comin out on Oct 18.
I'm sure Sound Forge would run well on it too.
(i have a USB audio interface, so could run stuff into that and use that as a secondary sound card too.
i wonder if MS will make a laptop too? i'd be interested to see that.

## Post 83 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Wednesday, 25-Sep-2013 0:45:25

Make That Oct 22nd. the specs look amazing.

## Post 84 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Wednesday, 25-Sep-2013 0:47:30

i'm seriously thinking when i replace my laptop (when it dies...) about getting one of these.
considering how often i replace computers, i'd max the thing, with the 512 GB HD, 8Gig RAM moddel.

## Post 85 by forereel (Just posting.) on Wednesday, 25-Sep-2013 10:45:25

The have more than one port John. 2 USB 2.0 and 1 3.0. You can use a hub if need be as well.
I saw something I didn't know about this morning. Microsoft will give you $200 if you trade in your iPad of several generations and buy a Surface. It is said they've added the iPhone to this, but that does us no good, because we still can't use a Windows phone.
Just an interesting happening.

## Post 86 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Wednesday, 25-Sep-2013 11:03:20

yeah wayne i saw that too, but i was under the impression that the extra ports were on a docking station, which is an extra accessory.

## Post 87 by BigDogDaddy (Help me, I'm stuck to my chair!) on Thursday, 26-Sep-2013 7:55:08

I just picked up a Samsung ultrabook with touch screen to setup for a client, so I'll take a look at jaws 15 just to get a look at the touch feature. I have a surface on the way for another consumer so I'll give that a go as well with both jaws 15 and NVDA and report if anyone cares to know.

## Post 88 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Thursday, 26-Sep-2013 11:08:12

yes, i'd like to know how you make out, especially on the surface.

## Post 89 by forereel (Just posting.) on Thursday, 26-Sep-2013 11:39:55

Please do. I'd love to know how it works as well.
Yes John, they have the doc station as well, but I believe they are also on the machine too. The doc station is a neat add on.

## Post 90 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Thursday, 26-Sep-2013 11:47:17

hell even the Surfice Pro doesn't look like it has bad specs.

## Post 91 by season (the invisible soul) on Thursday, 26-Sep-2013 17:28:43

This reminds me of something. End of this May i attended a professional conference for people with print disability. There are perhaps 75% of professional people, e.g. people that works in the educational field for people with print disability and 25% of user, people with print disability itself.
There is one presentation done by Microsoft Australia, showcasing their accessibility in windows 8 and their surface pro, and of course Narator.
It suppose to be a 45 minutes presentation, as it followed by NVDA presentation and Apple presentation.
in that 45 minutes of Microsoft presentation from the head leader of accessibility department, he use around 10 minutes to set up windows 8, then spend another 10 minutes trying to boot narator unsucessfully, and spend another 5 minute trying to boot jaws in order to boot Narator.
After 20 odds minutes of the presentation, he managed to get that thing working, then have about 5 minutes of presentation in light speed.
Then, he try to boot the surface pro with the same result, with Jaws,.
After 35 minutes or so, he gave up and spend the remaining time oppologising for the hardware software failiar...
Why am i so clear with the timing? i was one of the timer on duty for that particular accessibility session.
Now, say whatever you like about it, but the fact that unprepare presentation on a professional level, from microsoft so call accessibility team itself is somewaht laughable.
AAlthough i must say though, it make a very good free marketing for NVDA, as their presentation was as smooth as anything. Same system, using windows 8, with NVDA...

## Post 92 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Thursday, 26-Sep-2013 17:33:32

its not that hard to boot these things.
why didn't somebody tel her how to do this ?

## Post 93 by forereel (Just posting.) on Thursday, 26-Sep-2013 20:05:03

Every one isn't good at their job. Smile.
Now, Joanne, how is NVDA's touchscreen support? I can't get that question answered even though I keep hearing how good it is?

## Post 94 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Thursday, 26-Sep-2013 22:02:10

wwayne its not hard to do....
click on jaws icon if you are sited smileb.

## Post 95 by Espking (Zone BBS is my Life) on Monday, 07-Oct-2013 18:32:48

I was thinking of getting a windows 8 tablit for testing jaws 15. where could I get one for less than $100?

## Post 96 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Monday, 07-Oct-2013 20:14:04

i highly doubt you can.get anythign taht cheap with windows 8

## Post 97 by forereel (Just posting.) on Monday, 07-Oct-2013 20:15:49

Pawn shop.

## Post 98 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Monday, 07-Oct-2013 20:17:18

maybe you can rent it for a couple of months
places like rent-a-center or Aarons' .

## Post 99 by Espking (Zone BBS is my Life) on Monday, 04-Nov-2013 20:17:38

I was thinking someware in the long beach peninsula area.

## Post 100 by Senior (I've now got the bronze prolific poster award! now going for the silver award!) on Saturday, 16-Nov-2013 16:16:06

A now moves to radiobuttons. This is annoying because it now takes longer to read threads on this and other websites.

## Post 101 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Saturday, 16-Nov-2013 18:57:56

Anchor is still there I just edited the text file and put that on the grave key and blockquotes on the apostrophe key. Or just use the quick keys manager from insert f2 I think it is, and assign it to a letter whose nav key you don't use, like maybe y if you don't move to span that much. Yeah, a pain but fixable.
I just geeked out and did the text editor thing because the manager only lets you put things on letters and numbers I think but why geek out, if you don't have to? Use the manager instead and put it on something you don't use much. Span would be a good choie, y, because it's only useful if you use quick navigations to explore a page by element from a design perspective.
Find another for block quotes because there are sites they get used a lot for articles and such.

## Post 102 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Saturday, 16-Nov-2013 21:26:45

why is it more annoying? this board doesn't have any radio buttons

## Post 103 by Senior (I've now got the bronze prolific poster award! now going for the silver award!) on Sunday, 17-Nov-2013 17:00:13

Because there is an anchor at each post so if there is a long post and you want to get to the next one you just press "a" and it goes there.

## Post 104 by forereel (Just posting.) on Sunday, 17-Nov-2013 21:34:33

If I want to skip post I just press the letter N.

## Post 105 by Senior (I've now got the bronze prolific poster award! now going for the silver award!) on Tuesday, 19-Nov-2013 17:41:23

N works here but on some other sites you'd have to press it more than once to get past a post.
Thanks Leo for the tip. I'm not experienced at editing jaws settings apart from in settings centre but after some time I did work out where I was supposed to be and successfully edited it so Jaws now moves to anchors when I press A.