# Blind prejudice?

Category: Let's talk

## Post 1 by Orin (Veteran Zoner) on Sunday, 20-Nov-2011 10:07:22

Hi all,
I was just curious if there were any specific prejudices against us? I'm writing an essay for an English class and am finding that there are really not a lot of good articles on the subject, as I have to have sources with it. I think ours just ties in with other prejudices such as race and religion. I have to write about how this prejudice damages society, and I always come back to the public's viewpoint on us as blind or visually impaired people.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Thanks.

## Post 2 by wildebrew (We promised the world we'd tame it, what were we hoping for?) on Sunday, 20-Nov-2011 16:10:35

I think it's not so much actual prejudice as others not being entirely sure how to interact with us, or what our capabilities are.
I don't think it's necessarily in the realm of prejudice, as they don't automatically assume that we can't do anything, or are good singers like Ray Charles, it seems to be more uncertainty as to how to start a conversation, keep one, refer to visual experience (can you watch, tv) etc.
I think, we also may have some blind prejudice or ideas about ourselves. I have often felt that we expect a lot of ourselves, and feel like our blindness makes us a failure, if we can't cook independently or do our laundry at age 18, when the fact is that a lot of perfectly sighed and "non-disabled" kids are the same way. I have a friend who's 32, smart guy, programmer, has lived by himself for 6 years now, and just cooked his first chicken noodle meal a few months back. If he had been blind, we would've gone after him for being a failure and a disagrace to the blind community (ok, some of us would have), whereas, because he is sighted, it's a little weird, but no big deal.
I cooked my first chicken breast a week after I moved into my own apartment, admittedly I thought putting it on the George Foremann grill for 2 minutes was enough, and ate it, though somewhat rubbery. Once I realized I probably undercooked it by at least 6 minutes, I was just thankful I avoided some serious case of food poisoning.
I think, in other words, we're too quick to be defensive and perfections when we're blind, may be becuase of outside pressure, may be pressure we put on ourselves.
This would definitely make for an interesting paper anyway.

## Post 3 by margorp (I've got the gold prolific poster award, now is there a gold cup for me?) on Sunday, 20-Nov-2011 22:33:39

Ah but a lack of tolerance has always been around. Try looking at the history of rehabilitation. This was during Rosevelt's rieghn. Blind people were seen as the worst of the handicapped. Why? It goes way back to the dawn of man. Light was always associated with safty and it is assumed that all blind cannot see light. That is, no light perception at all. That was thereby translated as helpless, worth less, etc. Many societies learned, and were indeed, called upon to coddle the blind. Look up educational texts. A book was around called dependance I think it was called. Yes, and this was in the 50's I believe. Hope this helps.

## Post 4 by kittycat (Newborn Zoner) on Friday, 25-Nov-2011 15:12:34

I think any prejudices against are caused by misconceptions. However, it is easier for people to hold onto their prejudices because they do not want to chalenge these misconceptions that have been held for so long.

## Post 5 by Shadow_Cat (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 25-Nov-2011 17:24:08

It seems that, more than prejudice against us, society labors under a ton of misconceptions, and also is constantly underestimating us. I don't know as I've ever encountered anyone hostile toward me or blind people in general. The worst I've seen are people who simply refuse to change their ideas about blindness, even when shown the errors of their thinking.

## Post 6 by margorp (I've got the gold prolific poster award, now is there a gold cup for me?) on Friday, 25-Nov-2011 18:31:08

Well just like anything else, blindness is still new to many people. And when people form views on a new concept they stick.

## Post 7 by blbobby (Ooo you're gona like this!) on Saturday, 26-Nov-2011 2:56:15

I agree that misinterpretation is a big source of misunderstanding.
However, there are a lot of people out there who fear us. In a way we say to them, see what could happen to you? And they are deathly afraid.
I once had an apartment owner who refused to rent to me because he was afraid I couldn't hit the toilet when I took a leak. What am I supposed to do, prove him wrong?
I'm afraid that that kind of fear leads to direct prejudice, not just misunderstanding.
Bob

## Post 8 by margorp (I've got the gold prolific poster award, now is there a gold cup for me?) on Saturday, 26-Nov-2011 15:56:08

Yes, that story you just told is an example of ignorance. And ignorance is the slower sibling of prejudice.

## Post 9 by BryanP22 (Novice theriminist) on Sunday, 27-Nov-2011 15:09:40

And what a stupid reason to refuse to rent to you.

## Post 10 by Godzilla-On-Toast (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 27-Nov-2011 18:35:04

I'm beginning to believe that although blindness is not necessarily hated the way, let's say, homosexuals or those of other ethnicities are hated, I think to many people we represent some very primal fears. I wonder what any sighted people or formerly sighted people might have to say about this. Go figure, fear of the dark, fear of the unknown, and fear of vulnerability and/or death and who knows what else. If we're not scary as people, we represent very scary things. Man, there are times where I'm surprised they don't make horror movies with blind people representing the monsters or villains just by being themselves. Yes, I do think there is a lot of prejudice against us, but I'm not sure how much it parallels the prejudice and discrimination against people with other disabilities. Recently I've heard of a number of incidents where people were barred from restaurants because of their guide dogs and despite being told they couldn't do so and even the cops being called, the places would stand firm on their viewpoint. I also read some articles on the web concerning blindness and accessibility and I don't know if people are just trying to be cute but there seems to be an idea that a business can discriminate against anyone they wish and the blind should either bring sighted people in tow, find other alternatives, or just accept the unfairness of life and quit whining. Same attitude whether it's website accessibility or accessible paper money. Life is unfair, suck it up, quit whining.

## Post 11 by margorp (I've got the gold prolific poster award, now is there a gold cup for me?) on Sunday, 27-Nov-2011 22:43:19

We couldn't be monsters because you need to see to do that! Lol.
As far as people beeing barred from places:
Just think about the companys that would sooner file for bankruptsy than hire a blind person.

## Post 12 by Godzilla-On-Toast (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Monday, 28-Nov-2011 5:35:25

And I bet the thing they're afraid of most is if we randomly fall, like we do because we're blind, and we sue the company. And there's no way of telling people that many of us go through life without falling too often unless the circumstances are just right, but one thing about being blind is that a blind person's word seemms to lack credibility.

## Post 13 by Flop Eared Monster (Adorably monsterous) on Monday, 28-Nov-2011 11:57:35

Oh, there are prejudices out there. People tend to fear the unknown. They look at us and think: What would I do if that were me? Or my child? That repells them because who wants to think such morbid thoughts?
Then there are those who talk down to us as if we were simple minded because we can't see, calling us insulting little pet names and doing everything for us except offering to wipe our ass*how does that feeble blind person find their asshole to wipe anyhow?LOL*
But, yes, the biggest thing is that people are just uneducated and so don't know how to act around us and are afraid of offending us by using the wrong words. Those who give us the fair chance usually end up finding out that we are just like sighted people.
Oh and isn't it too embarassing when they tell you how amazing a person you are because you are blind? I hate that, ug!

## Post 14 by Godzilla-On-Toast (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Monday, 28-Nov-2011 12:49:48

I think I can handle the whole amazing bit better now than I used to, but it still makes me feel awkward. Consider it's better to be called amazing than helpless, however, it still reflects a viewpoint that puts us in extremes. We are always far above or far below the speaker, not equal to or anywhere equal to them. And yes, there are those who either get it or somehow escaped certain social programming or the impulse to be a herd animal.

## Post 15 by margorp (I've got the gold prolific poster award, now is there a gold cup for me?) on Monday, 28-Nov-2011 13:58:29

I think part of the problem is that people naturally make eye contact. Well they then look at us and our eyeballs are just rolling around in there sockets. This puts people off I guess. However that is no cause for such treatment.

## Post 16 by BryanP22 (Novice theriminist) on Monday, 28-Nov-2011 17:10:38

That's probably why, although this hasn't happened to me in years (well before I met my x girlfriend's family that is), the waiter or waitress at the restaurant will ask the sighted person what the blind one wants. I don't remember when people just quit asking my folks or my friends but I seem to recall it's been about thirteen years or so since the last time, not counting of course the x's family.

## Post 17 by Flop Eared Monster (Adorably monsterous) on Monday, 28-Nov-2011 18:18:18

OMG! I hate that! Waitress, bank teller, nurse, asking your sighted friend the questions as if you are incapable of answering! Another is I can walk into a room where everybody is standing around and somebody wants to run and get you a chair. I can't see my feet are fine, LOL and my legs support me.

## Post 18 by margorp (I've got the gold prolific poster award, now is there a gold cup for me?) on Monday, 28-Nov-2011 23:02:18

Yes people always want me to sit. I don't understand that.

## Post 19 by Siriusly Severus (The ESTJ 1w9 3w4 6w7 The Taskmaste) on Tuesday, 29-Nov-2011 0:41:51

yes, or they won't hold conversations with you, but yeah, asking others instead of me, wanting me to sit, and running and grabbing stuff for me occurs here too.
Great topic and good discussions some really good and funny worthwhile points. Yeah, I had a friend who had a friend who's job interview turned sour because this employer wanted her to tell them how she uses the bathroom or if she could at all! hahahahahahaha!
I think we all have come to a nice agreeable consensis here, and I agree with it, a lot of it is ignorace, and yeah, I hate that talking down to you, want to do something to them every time they do that. all my points and more has been made here, so I don't know what new has been, said but keep it going!

## Post 20 by BryanP22 (Novice theriminist) on Tuesday, 29-Nov-2011 6:19:45

One thing that did happen to me a couple years ago was that I'd gotten off of an airplane in Seattle and the person who was supposed to help me up to where you meet your family or whatever was late. Well when they finally showed up they'd brought a wheelchair and were perplexed whenI refused.

## Post 21 by Godzilla-On-Toast (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Tuesday, 29-Nov-2011 10:16:07

Why a wheelchair and not one of those cool electric golf cart things. Riding in those is fun!

## Post 22 by BryanP22 (Novice theriminist) on Tuesday, 29-Nov-2011 18:45:04

I guess because it was actually inside the airport.

## Post 23 by margorp (I've got the gold prolific poster award, now is there a gold cup for me?) on Tuesday, 29-Nov-2011 18:55:52

In reguards to Rachael's story about the bathroom thing:
My new frame of mind is to tell people like it is. I would say I eether whip it out and let fly into the toilet or sit and let my bowells do the talking. I don't mind freaking people out.

## Post 24 by Sword of Sapphire (Whether you agree with my opinion or not, you're still gonna read it!) on Tuesday, 29-Nov-2011 23:08:36

I think blind people most certainly face prejudice. As has been pointed out here, we have to face people thinking we're helpless and that we're more of a liability than anything else. People pity us and are afraid to even say the "wrong" things around us, and sometimes, they don't even speak to us, all because we can't see.
As far as finding scholarly articles about this, I'll say there's not enough information out there yet. In the media, we are still portrayed as very dependent on others, so that's how people think we are in our private and personal lives. Instead of documentaries, there needs to be more of a focus on scholarly works concerning the matter. It would be very interesting to read about, especially from a sociological perspective. If more scholarly works were done, I think it could help the subject of prejudice and disability make its way into the classroom.
Prejudices of any kind are damaging to a society because it limits access to opportunities for those facing prejudice. The prejudices holds these people back and limits what they can do for themselves and their own community. If no one does any documentaries or writes articles, popular or scholarly, that go against stereotypes and prejudices, then the prejudice continues.

## Post 25 by margorp (I've got the gold prolific poster award, now is there a gold cup for me?) on Tuesday, 29-Nov-2011 23:14:18

Perhaps we should pitty the sighted? lol

## Post 26 by BryanP22 (Novice theriminist) on Wednesday, 30-Nov-2011 1:42:27

Yeah. We're either portrayed as all but helpless or possessing superhuman senses (Blind Justice anyone?) Because I don't imagine a blind person could be a cop even with a guide dog and a copy of AWS to rely on.

## Post 27 by BryanP22 (Novice theriminist) on Wednesday, 30-Nov-2011 8:31:25

And I meant JAWS LOL.

## Post 28 by margorp (I've got the gold prolific poster award, now is there a gold cup for me?) on Wednesday, 30-Nov-2011 10:25:41

Maybe we should dress up as super heros. Blind justice, away!

## Post 29 by Godzilla-On-Toast (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Wednesday, 30-Nov-2011 13:56:22

Gotta feel sorry for the light-dependent folks. Thousands of years of evolution and they're still afraid of the dark. They fool themselves into believing they are immortal, so death scares them. They are hung up on a made-up concept called normal, so the principle of people who might have one of their five senses impaired scares them. And then there's just plain old difference which scares them, too, as if everybody would be better off being pretty much identical. It's a wonder they can all function and get up to live another day with all their underlying primal fears lurking about. LOL!

## Post 30 by margorp (I've got the gold prolific poster award, now is there a gold cup for me?) on Wednesday, 30-Nov-2011 14:03:20

I once had a conversation with a friend of mine who is an anthropologist. I said, "we have all these fears and so on. Haven't we all evolved?" She said "Not as far along as we think." Oh we talked for a while about how we have so much to learn as a species.
I think what happens with sighted people is they look at us and they get a sort of sensory overload. They've hit a brick wall in there mind. "Something new! How can I deal with this?" We all sort of do that. Blind, sighted, it doesn't matter.

## Post 31 by Dirty Little Oar (I'd rather be rowing.) on Thursday, 01-Dec-2011 10:59:24

Aren't all prejudices basically the result of ignorance and misconceptions? I'll agree that racism and homophobia typically generate more emotional hate responses, but it still all results from misconceptions about people who are different from what is considered normal. All minority groups have assigned stereotypes and labels that hold them back. Prejudice exists for the blind just as it does for other minorities and is just as harmful. A blind person being refused a place to live because the landlord believes that a blind man can't hit the toilet while peeing is no different than a black man not getting an apartment because the landlord believes all black people are lazy and thus won't have money to pay rent. And again, it's no different than if the landlord refused to rent the place to a gay man because the landlord believes a gay man will expose him or other tenants to contracting AIDS. They're all misconceptions and stereotypes that prevent people from obtaining a place to live. All of these beliefs are incorrect, caused by ignorance and result in harm. I don't understand why we have a tendancy as blind people to dismiss prejudice as mere misconceptions. To me, prejudice and misconception are the same thing. One is just a prettier, less incriminating word but they both have the same result.

## Post 32 by BryanP22 (Novice theriminist) on Thursday, 01-Dec-2011 11:45:19

I think it's just that to many of us the misconceptions and prejudices directed at us seem, well I suppose more bizarre than those directed at other minorities.

## Post 33 by margorp (I've got the gold prolific poster award, now is there a gold cup for me?) on Thursday, 01-Dec-2011 13:49:50

I think it is because we can shrug them off. After all, we have grown acustome to dealing with them.

## Post 34 by Dirty Little Oar (I'd rather be rowing.) on Thursday, 01-Dec-2011 15:23:25

But don't you think other minorities get used to stupid prejudices and shrug stuff off too? When I was in college, my best friend and my roommate were both black. We ran around together constantly. I vividly remember the first time I noticed that my friends were being tailed by employees in a store at the mall. I was outraged. My friends just shrugged their shoulders because it was nothing new to them. I don't think anyone here would argue that the store employee was operating from personal prejudice or a prejudicial store policy. Now that I am blind, I shrug stuff off all the time as well because ignorance about my blindness is so common and the reaction of my friends makes more sense. But it doesn't make those actions any less prejudicial. Same goes for Brian's comment about things about us being so bizarre. When you get right down to it, all misconceptions and prejudices are kind of bizarre. Why should my 2 friends from college be considered more likely to shoplift by store employees simply because of the physiological fact that their skin contains more pigmentation than mine. Kind of stupid if you really think about it. There was no other difference than skin color that caused us to be treated differently. We were all from middle class homes dressed in typical clothing of a college student in the early 90's. We weren't being loud or drawing attention to ourselves. We were just shopping. But we got tailed all the time. And if I broke off from the 2 of them, the tail stuck with them and left me in all my whiteness free and clear to continue my browsing. It's just so arbitrary and bizarre to me. And what about all the stupid crap about how all black people like fried chicken and watermelon. Isn't that a kind of random and bizarre stereotype? I am sure there are plenty of other examples of strange stereotypes that I'm just not thinking of because I don't have to deal with them. We're not the only minority group to deal with strangeness. I do get what Brian is saying. People believe some really random BS about us. But if you break it all down, it mostly comes back to a belief that we lack capacity or are incompetent. It is all prejudice whether we want to acknowledge it or not and it is all harmful. Being strange or common doesn't change the effect of such beliefs.
Here's another thing to add to the discussion. When I get annoyed by ignorant stuff, I am often told by my sighted friends that I shouldn't get upset about the stupid things that people say or do to me because most people mean well but they just don't know what to do. I really don't understand that. Why should I as a blind person accept less from society just because they don't know any better than to be ignorant jack ofs? I am supposed to smile and thank someone when they tell me how amazing I am because I can dress myself because the person really means well? Why is it inappropriate for me to politely point out to the person that such common every day tasks are easily accomplished with adaptive techniques and try to teach people they should seriously evaluate their idea of what is amazing? I'm supposed to take this as a compliment when all my real accomplishments in life go unrecognized? I have been chastized by sighted people for this very argument. And I'm not talking about random strangers. I had this very discussion with one of my co-workers who I consider a friend and who I have worked with for the past 12 years. I honestly don't go around acting like a militant asshole. I just don't get why we should be expected to smile and accept this stuff just because someone means well. And I guess that's basically what this whole thread is about. We've somehow been trained or brainwashed or manipulated or whatever into dismissing prejudices as misconceptions because people really mean well.
OK, I'll shut up now. I'm not trying to be argumentative or say that any of you are wrong for how you perceive the random stuff we all deal with. I just found this to be an interesting topic and I've been running all this stuff through my mind all day. I don't think there is a right answer and I don't even know for sure how I feel about all of this. I've never really given it much thought before. Thanks for the thought provoking topic.

## Post 35 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Thursday, 01-Dec-2011 17:50:45

Time Traveling Bunny strikes home again. That would be a free-throw with *One hand*!
This is just rabble talk handed down to us by so-called independence groups.
Truth be told: Prejudice against blind people is deemed acceptable because we lack the sex appeal of gay or black people. Not we ourselves, but to support us lacks said sex appeal.
Of course we can work around it. Most people do. However, that doesn't make it right. What it does do is gives you a clue as to how developed somebody actually is. Ever had someone act this way towards you, and in the next breath tout diversity or call some redneck a homophobe? It is, in fact, quite ironic. Or, you have a woman, who is old enough to predate the Equal Rights Amendment making gross generalizations about you as a blind person. A human being in that situation would be capable of extrapolation: If it's wrong to do to Group X, probably it's wrong to do to Group Y as well. You don't need to be telling people over and over and over. "No, I know 50 years ago we said don't lynch the black ones. That applies to brown ones too." It's silly, and mostly it's an awful lot like raising kids who are trying to get away with things.
They can do better. We see them do better when it comes to women in the workplace, gay rights, etc., they just plain don't want to. Your disadvantage, and mine too, is we're not their father and can't sit their skinny little asses down in a chair and make 'em stay there till they get it out of their systems.
The only way I know of that this can cohesively happen is if the population is large enough. People weren't magically enlightened in the 60s. It just so happens the blakcs in many areas outnumbered, or nearly equaled, the whites. And women? They make up an approximate 51% of the population. So those groups could successfully get others to knock off their bad behavior, by sheere numbers. Even gays are gonna come out ok, because they make up anywhere between 2 and 10 percent of the population, plus friends and family members.
The blind are a very small part of the population.
The so-called education about blindness is a crock if there ever was one. What? Did they go educating southern homeboys or norhter rural people about the intelligence of black people?
Or how about women? Did they go around saying "We just have to educate men ..."? A child of the 1970s and 80s, le me just say ... no that isn't how that happened.
And, in truth, most sighted people don't stoop to the behaviors that frustrate all of us. Most just do their thing, allow others to lve and let live.
Perhaps with the number of Iraq war veterans who will become blind over the next decades due to concussion-based head injuries, we'll see improvement in people's attitudes. But it will be because of numbers, and peer pressure to not act that way, at least in public. The behaviors we all get frustrated by are positively moronic, no more no less. We've all seen someone who time after time, no matter what it is you're doing, continues to go on and on about blindness, get their grimy little paws into whatever work you're engaged in, basically the behavior of a 4-year-old, no matter how much they have seen or experienced.
And, you also see, to the shame of the aforementioned, countless people who just pass by, or are involved in normal human ways, aren't stuck in a groove like that.
If someone wants to be willingly stupid, there is nothing you or I can really do about it.
Except maybe watch the Darwin Awards to see if they would make an appearance.

## Post 36 by Godzilla-On-Toast (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Thursday, 01-Dec-2011 21:29:30

I have to wonder if the whole thing about good intentions is supposed to be a sort of get-out-of-jail-free card. This is a big sticking point with me, because right here in these boards, ever since I joined the Zone, there's been story after story of behavior by sighted people that you and I know would get them either a broken jaw, a jail sentence or a lawsuit if a sighted person dared do it to another sighted person, but if you're blind, you have to just go limp and put up with it because the stupid fools didn't know any better but they meant well. Then, what really grinds my gears is since you understand people don't know better and you want to nicely set them straight, the sighted person all of a sudden puts shields up and sets all phasers to kill. That is, they get offended and defensive and start analyzing what your feelings are, such as saying you as a blind person are bitter or angry. What's up with that?

## Post 37 by OceanDream (An Ocean of Thoughts) on Friday, 02-Dec-2011 9:59:15

I see what you're saying, but at the same time, some of us overreact. yes, I'll admit, some people are a little too sensitive, but if someone's first impression of a blind person is being shoved away and called every name in the book, just because they offered help, they're probably not going to offer it in the future to someone who might really need it. The only time I can justify getting physical is if someone assumes you don't know where you're going and grabs you, forcefully steering you in what they think is the right direction.

## Post 38 by margorp (I've got the gold prolific poster award, now is there a gold cup for me?) on Friday, 02-Dec-2011 12:11:14

I am not saying we should sit back and write it off as the norm. However, we must pick our battles.

## Post 39 by BryanP22 (Novice theriminist) on Tuesday, 06-Dec-2011 8:43:10

Exactly. There are some situations where you just know whether it would be worthwhile to try to facilitate a change. You can tell by a person's actions and tones whether or not your efforts would be well-received. That's one of the reasons I got out of my last relationship when I did, because I could tell that both the girl and her mom were not, despite all their protests to the contrary, willing to listen. In the girl's case it had to do with such actions as moving a drink just as I was reaching for it, and no this wasn't out of concern that I might spill it. If it were she wouldn't have laughed when I reacted. Then there was her mother who, no matter how much I asked her to, refused to ask me directly whether I wanted a soda or a snack when she got up to get one for herself. And Maria's advice to me was just to deal with it since her mom was never going to change. Of course neither was she going to break her habit of moving things when I reached for them. The saddest part of that business was that she couldn't understand why I didn't find it one bit funny.
The point I'm trying to make is that it's a good idea to pay atention to how the people around you act before you yourself do anything. If you do you'll be able to tell whether you should expend any energy to try to change the situation. Some people just aren't willing to change and trying will at best waste your time and energy and worse actually cause you trouble.

## Post 40 by margorp (I've got the gold prolific poster award, now is there a gold cup for me?) on Tuesday, 06-Dec-2011 12:18:47

Many people aren't willing.

## Post 41 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Tuesday, 06-Dec-2011 13:00:01

I still say blindness has nothing at all to do with this. People choose to behave either like humans or like animals.
Humans have the ability to rise above preconceived ideas and fears. Not for some psychobabble reasons, but because it is advantageous to our survival. Animals do not. If you're born defective in a chicken coop, you will be picked to death because of the first impressions of the other chickens. If you are born a black wolf among frays, you will be either eaten, or cast out.
So the only thing you really find out is whether the bipedal hominid in front or beside you is behaving like a human or like an anthropoid ape.
It does matter, in that it does affect us, of course. But as we survive and surpass it by shere strength of will, we are superior to them. Superior in fitness for survival in the world we live in. It's a 'sighted' world? Well, it is also a very diverse one, economically and socially global.
Countless humans are rising to that occasion and doing so magnificently. If someone is so incredibly feeble-minded as to not be able to get past their own impressions and ideas, they'll probably find themselves deposed of responsibilities, trust, connections and anything else that gives meaning to being human. Most people, while they may operate with some misconceptions, operate well and don't behave themselves like chickens in public, picking to death any inconsistency in their supposed uniformity they find. We all have misconceptions. But we all can behave in public, at least those of us who are both human and not feeble-minded.
When I face some of the things you describe, frankly, the last thing on my mind is blindness. I realize that is the first on theirs, but it's not on mine. We're looking at incompetence, and behaviors a global society may not be able to excuse for long if we are to maintain the global systems we have. I'm looking at someone I probably wouldn't trust with my daughter, someone I definitely would never consider hiring, and would be hard pressed to take their word on anything except about their feelings and their desires.
I fully respect misconceptions, which all of us have. But there is no double standard: they can't do to us what would be unacceptable to other people. I can't either. Chances are, in the world we live in, I'll meet up with someone radically different from me in some way or other, whether really different, or just different in my own mind. But that is no excuse to throw away all social norms and just start acting badly. It's not a civil rights issue, it's one of fitness for survival .
Think of it this way: Before the industrial revolution, most people were used for manual labor. During the middle ages, literacy was even scorned. The majority of work depended upon one's physical prowess and abilities. In the industrial revolution, the demand went from big strong backs to strong minds. Now in a global economy, people are forced to deal with differences humans could afford to not deal with before. Several hundred years ago, in Europe, people didn't even marry outside their own towns, except for nobility. Now, interracial marriages are commonplace, and while some people probably have fantastical ideas about the pitfalls of these unions, nobody in normal society would go around picking apart interracial couples.
The same principle applied to us, about it being a sighted world, applies to the people you descired: it's a global world. Just as we can't expect coddling or catering to us, I don't coddle or cater to said individuals. What's good for the goose is most definitely good for the gander, and these people are far more often an expense and a liability than they are an asset of any sort. Have you ever seen such behave in an international audience? Like at a company function, where international representatives are present?
These are the same people that will say 'camel f**king jockey' in the hearing of a rep from the middle east, or make other overt impressions-based references about Orientals, Hispanics, etc.
Even if all the supposed faults among the blind were actually present, they could never present the disastrous liability, millions of dollars in costs to a company, that these types can.
For now, some of them can function reasonably well. But even today we still have illiterates. Both castes will find themselves increasingly marginalized as globalization continues. I'm not suggesting we mistreat them: it is weak to mistreat those who are deficient mentallly. But they lack the prowess it will take to compete in a modern world. It has nothing at all to do with vision or lack thereof: that is simply their current excuse.
The gender orientation and similar so-called debates are the same thing. For all I care, someone I work with may privately hold their own distaste for blind people, but they are strong and capable when they keep it to themselves, and knowing it's a personal belief, separate it from their ability to use good judgment. What has been described in earlier posts is people who cannot separate their feelings from their ability to use good judgment. That behavior is decidedly infantile, a behavior we try and teach our kids to do away with.

## Post 42 by margorp (I've got the gold prolific poster award, now is there a gold cup for me?) on Wednesday, 07-Dec-2011 10:55:20

It is the behavior we are seeing more and more of. Logic seems to drift out of the perverbial window when it comes to something that one does not understand. That does certainly lead to prejudice.

## Post 43 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Wednesday, 07-Dec-2011 13:18:36

I'll be willing to bet, though, that in your lifetime you will see said people marginalized. Not for political or civil rights reasons, but because those who can compete in a global economy are those who can separate themselves from their personal feelings about others and other so-called types of people. For those who cannot? Too bad. It will be poetic irony when they someday find themselves on the dole for the same reasons the retarded are.
I can't tell you how often I've seen it in public and in the workplace: the same people who outwardly display weird behaviors towards groups of people like the blind, are the same people who express poor judgment, have emotional meltdowns during meetings {adult temper tantrums} and otherwise express infantile and high-risk behavior.
On the other hand, I've known people who were man enough to behave, even though privately they held their own reservations about me or my abilities, solely on my inability to use photons. Because they were man enough, they saw by my merits their impressions were misplaced. Rather than be off-ended at or up-ended by someone's impression, I was impressed by the strength of character they possessed to keep their unfounded beliefs to themselves, watch if they wish, and not interfere with things that were underway.
On the contrary, when I was a food vendor, my espresso cart's pump broke down. I took the whole thing apart, right there, as I had no shop, to see if I could figure out what the trouble was. Better that than spend several hundred dollars fixing things.
Maybe I'm old-school, but aren't people taught not to get in the way of a guy who's working? Well, most are. But a woman who had no business doing so came over, bent over, started moving and rearranging parts I'd set out on the floor. As you know, when you take anything apart, you place the parts in their exact or near-exact configuration so you can reassemble it. This is especially true if you haven't taken apart the device before.
Needless to say I was frustrated, told her to back off. She began some rubbish about blindness, which I rather abruptly interrupted by asking: "Didn't your father ever teach you not to get in the way when a man is working?"
Some laughed, she did back away, and some claimed it should have been what people call a teachable moment, something about education about blindness.
The "issue" was not eyeballs: it was ball-bearings, actually. And frankly I don't care that she was fifty years old: She was behaving like a cub, so I treated her like a cub.
And this is the same person who was a constant dripping faucet, constant complainer to building and staff, complained about the former people, complained about her work, apparently even complained after we left that we weren't there anymore. In short, she was one of those whose manager you look upon with profound sympathy.
You would never trust that one in a roomful of international representatives unless you really wanted to lose money fast.
And I would never have trusted her judgment on anything. The only person who thought any of it had to do with vision was her.
Everyone else was hopeful we were going to be able to get 'er done so they could get coffee again. Fortunately, despite her disparate pawing around in mechanical parts of which she understood nothing, I was able to put it back together and get it working after a fashion until I could pay up and get the real deal taken care of.
But that's the way it works with people like that: They are a mess, and they usually leave a mess for the rest of us to clean up.
I think the trick is to completely depersonalize, and make it entirely a behavioral issue rather than one about vision, blue hair, or whatever today's cool kids have a problem with.
Ironically, on Facebook recently some of us were having a conversation about tantrums and how to deal with them (same deal) and the subject came round to not just toddlers and teens, but adults who display this behavior. If they see you get upset, they may get off: refuse, depersonalize and give them absolutely nothing. Remember the oldd Tarzan and Jungle books, when someone would be captured by the savages? First and foremost on their mind was to never show a glint of fear or pain to the savages. When you look on 'em like that, you can't get personally involved the way civil rights people do.

## Post 44 by margorp (I've got the gold prolific poster award, now is there a gold cup for me?) on Wednesday, 07-Dec-2011 14:17:55

Oh I don't usually get all rialed up about such people. Well, not as much as most of these civel rights folks. In fact, it takes a great deal to set me off. However, I do find such adult tantrums to be a pain in the glootious maximus, as it were.

## Post 45 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Wednesday, 07-Dec-2011 14:22:21

That, indeed, they are.

## Post 46 by margorp (I've got the gold prolific poster award, now is there a gold cup for me?) on Wednesday, 07-Dec-2011 15:00:04

But yes, I believe the lesson is to chuckle and walk on.

## Post 47 by Inspired Chick (Zone BBS Addict) on Sunday, 29-Jan-2012 7:11:02

Well, this might set some people off. But what about the other blind who are prejidice Forgive the spelling. Let's say you are living at home with family. There's nothing wrong with that. The only thing is that other blind people think you are not independent. You'd be giving the same contribution to the household if you were with a landlord.
However, I do think if a person he or she lives at home, they should contribute to the household like paying rent.
That is what any landlord would have done....
Give you a set ammount for rent and food....
I'm not saying living at home is for everyone, but it's just something to think about..... Most families help their blind or sighted family members. This is not all cases however.
So I'm not strayhing away from that you should have independence, but I am just saying that some blind people don't get it. So I think they can be predijuce against other blind people for wanting to live with family.....

## Post 48 by Inspired Chick (Zone BBS Addict) on Sunday, 29-Jan-2012 7:11:27

Some may not agree with me. But I just thought I'd throw it out there.

## Post 49 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Sunday, 29-Jan-2012 12:29:38

After being on the Zone for awhile, I would agree. Thre are plenty of blind people who exhibit textbook bigotry and would no doubt make very good skinheads, members of the KKK, or Black Panthers.
Since you don't need eyes to improvise an explosive device, I certainly do wonder about some on this site and their extreme bigotry. Far beyond normal social proportions.

## Post 50 by margorp (I've got the gold prolific poster award, now is there a gold cup for me?) on Sunday, 29-Jan-2012 23:32:40

Oh I agree and I have seen it myself. It disturbs me to my verry core.