# If you've switched from PC to Mac, talk to me?

Category: Geeks r Us

## Post 1 by Skyla (move over school!) on Wednesday, 17-Jun-2009 19:48:13

Hi everyone,
I'm going to be switching from a pc to a macbook in the very near future, and am basically wondering what I can expect in terms of the learning curve associated with the switch. I've heard very good things about voiceover, but am wondering if there are any noteable drawbacks when comparing it to jaws? are all the accessible websites still accessible? how's facebook? web CT? (for students who use that particular online interface). What would you say was the most difficult thing to change? why do you like your mac better? your pc better? thanks!

## Post 2 by Jesse (Hmm!) on Wednesday, 17-Jun-2009 23:27:52

K. Here goes. Voiceover is not Jaws. Do not compare the two. They are two very different interfaces for accessing the same things.
2. OSX is not Windows, so don't try to make the comparison.
Over all, the Mac is great, and will be better when Snow Leopard comes out. You will love it.

## Post 3 by Skyla (move over school!) on Thursday, 18-Jun-2009 2:23:39

I don't understand why you say the two cannot be compared. They are both different means to a similar end, and I am simply trying to learn about their differences and advantages. But thanks for suggesting that I'll love snow lepard.

## Post 4 by season (the invisible soul) on Thursday, 18-Jun-2009 3:49:40

hi,
i use both Mac and PC, mainly because my work place is a mac base workplace.
is very hard to compare them together. just like you can't compare apple and orange...
can you compare apple to orange and call them the same?
MakOS and Windows like apple and orange. if you can't call apple and orange the same fruit, therefore you can't compare PC to Mac the same way you compare them both together.
you can compare Window Eyes and Jaws and NVDA and System Access etc, etc, together as they work in the same base, work for the Window OS,
but ones again, voice over is come with Mac, and only will work with apple product.
you have no problem at all with your internet websites, as many time they can run as smooth as anything without any plug in at all. i haven't seen any plugin for Safari, and yep, voice over have no problem at all with handleling websites such as facebook so on.
you can switch the OS to window, and work a mac like you work in a window machine anyway, but i'm not too sure if voice over able to support that part of application yet.
another thing, you might need a short period of time for yourself to get use to the keystrokes on Mac, as they are different from Window.

## Post 5 by ¤§¤spike¤§¤ (This site is so "educational") on Thursday, 18-Jun-2009 4:45:27

Hi Skyla,
What kinds of things do you do now on your pc? I ask this way I can help you out to find alternative programs that'll do the same things, or similar, for the mac, that are accessible with Voice Over. I'll give a few examples with program descriptions, as to what I use.
Windows Messenger, Windows, Adium on Mac
Adium is like Miranda, a multi-protocol IM client, in other words it connects to different networks, Msn, AIM, Yahoo at the same time.
Office 2003, or XP on Windows.
OpenOffice, or iWork 2009. Both are Voice Over friendly.
Cakewalk Sonar, other mixing applications.Garage Band for the mac.
MediaPlayer, Winamp
VLC, VideoLan client.
Ask, if you have any other questions, and I'll be glad to help

## Post 6 by Skyla (move over school!) on Thursday, 18-Jun-2009 6:38:09

Thanks for your replies. Oranges and apples can definitely be compared to one another, so I struggle to understand why my question is being responded to the way it is; nevertheless, thanks for your replies.
To the poster above me: thanks for giving a breakdown of some of the different programs. I do use word, but wonder if, for instance, I'd be able to e-mail the apple word files to a pc user so that they could open and read them--likewise, could someone send me a word document for me to read?
I'd heard of the messenger client of macs, and how you could essentially be on AIM, yahoo, and msn concurrently, which is awesome.

## Post 7 by wildebrew (We promised the world we'd tame it, what were we hoping for?) on Thursday, 18-Jun-2009 9:28:16

Yes, Office is made to be platform independent, so you should always be able to open documents created in Office with an Office app, regardless of whether it's being run on pc, mac or linux (well, open office in that case).

## Post 8 by BigDogDaddy (Help me, I'm stuck to my chair!) on Thursday, 18-Jun-2009 10:58:09

Skyla, bottom line the mac OS is not windows nothing about them are similar. Trust me I'm a technition for a windows bassed product for 10 hours a day so it was absolutely necessary for me to forget about everything I knew about windows and just take the time to learn how the Mac OS functioned. The way Voice over presents information and handles reading tasks and key strokes are completely native to the mac. Example, in windows you have a start menu to launch programs turn off your computer, access the control panel, in the mac you use the doc. This was a tough concept for me to grasp at first but once I did I was on my way. The menus in mac applications are very standard and that makes life so much nicer! I realize it's exasperating when people tell you that you can't compare the MAC and pc, but I assure once you touch a mac for the first time you'll understand why!

## Post 9 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Thursday, 18-Jun-2009 10:58:47

Switch101.com
This site provides means and methods to do tasks you're used to in Windows, but on the Mac.
The Windows help systems has Help for Mac users.
Of course you can compare; cumulative comparison/contrast/association is a major component of intelligent thought.

## Post 10 by monkeypusher69 (I'll have the last word, thank you!) on Thursday, 18-Jun-2009 13:25:02

While i don't have much experience on a mac, i can say the two are different. You do have to kind of throw out all your notions of using a comp and "relearn" the mac set up. For example the task bar in windows is where your currently running programs are .. on the mac this is the dock and can have your currently running programs but also short cuts (like on the desktop ) to launch programs .. so like the task bar and the quick launch bar all rolled into one. Voice over isn't as advanced as jaws (as it is a relatively new program as compared to jaws) but will give you the audio feedback to access your basic mac programs, such as web browsing, word document and chatting among others. Much like jaws you will be limited in what programs work well with voice over. Yes you can set up your mac to run Windows as well but you will need to have a copy of windows and jaws to install but if you can do this then you will have the best of both worlds and can go back and forth. If this is something you are interested in doing i can let you know the differences in the two ways they are to do this. So once you learn the mac shortcuts, (alot of the basic ones are the same as windows just the keys have different names) you will find that somethings are easier ..like installing programs .. its usually just as simple as copying the program to the applications directoy. if you would like more info on this do a search for the blind cool tech podcast and browse through their archives for all the mac podcast .. they should get you up and running as well.

## Post 11 by BigDogDaddy (Help me, I'm stuck to my chair!) on Thursday, 18-Jun-2009 16:25:11

Post 10 imphasizes my point why comparisons are not fair. If we start comparing what voiceover can do and how come it doesn't do it like jaws does, then you miss the entire purpose of the mac experience. I can honestly say there are features that I have found in VO that I wish were in jaws. Also, to say it's a very basic screen reader is not accurate! Narrator for windows is a very basic and primative screen reader. On the other hand voice over offers customization and a very accessible enterface and opportunity for those who wish to use the mac OS.

## Post 12 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Thursday, 18-Jun-2009 16:45:34

Of course, the two can be compared. It's not like we'regoing from a command line interface to gui or anything like that. It's just that the keyboard strokes are different and there are a few new concepts in the mac. One of the things that really stands out with the Mac is interacting with things. In Windows, you just hit enter or space on something. But in Leopard, you might have to interact with it. It'll show you a dialogue or something and in order to get to all the choices, you'll have to go a level deeper, kind of like a submenuif you will. But once you do whatever it is, you have to stop interacting with it. Two good examples of this are certain toolbars and text. There's no forms mode with Voiceover, so that takes alot of the frustration out. Also, on the Mac, things are done sideways instead of vertical. Menus and text in a document are mostly vertical but to go on the net, for example, you have to use the voiceover keys (ctrl-option) and the right and leftarrows instead of the up and down arrows. Tab still works the same. Another thing worthy of noting is that you won't have ten different windows of the same thing opened. Say you're running text Edit and have four documents open, Adium, with two chats going, VLC with some music and three webpages open in Safari. You'll only really see four windows. That's cause the programs with multiple windows open, in this case Text Edit, Adium and Safari, hide their windows so that they're behind each other. You could switch between then but it's far lesscluttered than with windows, where everything is opened individually. Finally, when you enter a password on the Mac, it won't say star star. It'll be silent. VoiceOver definitely isn't a basic screenreader nor.

## Post 13 by ablindgibsongirl (the Zone BBS remains forever my home page) on Thursday, 18-Jun-2009 18:56:13

I'll be getting a mac soon as well so this topic is quite helpful. What is the scanning reading and editting package like for a mac? Does Kersweil make a pakage for the mac? My husband is a mac guy and can't wait for the new computer. He's been using his old g3 until very recently when I stopped fighting with windows and just gave him the pc. He was using it for work anyway but it didn't make sense for my tinkering for us to share the computer. Does the braillenote play well as a braille display connected to the mac? If not I'll pitch for a compatible braille display and call it good. Snow leopard, going through all forms of cat huh?

## Post 14 by b3n (I'm going for the prolific poster awards!) on Thursday, 18-Jun-2009 20:10:46

Interaction is quite a neet concept imo.
If you can picture a window and then split it up into logical chunks. As your mooving around the window, voice over will announce the name of the chunk that your on but won't read you any of it - if you continue to move down the window, you'll progress to the next one.
This is great when your trying to review a fairly hectic window where your not going to want to see 99% of the stuff thats on it. Interacting is where you would select that chunk and only deel with the things inside it.
With the introduction of there new operating system, you'll be able to do things with jestures using the touchpad which sounds nice.
I think tif explained it better but meh.
Your always going to get differing views on the subject of macs - really, the best thing you can do is go into a apple store and try one out for your self.
There rediculessly easy to use and it'll take you no time to get to know your mac. Excluding the built in screenreader, I don't really see any advantages in owning one really. Don't get me wrong, there good, but windows is just as good imo.

## Post 15 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Thursday, 18-Jun-2009 20:25:20

I think you d a better job at explaining interaction. It's one of those things I can do but can't really explain that well. *smile* I hope they don't make this whole touchpad thing a necessity. Personally, I hate any kind of touch screen and prefer real buttons, dials etc.

## Post 16 by va3ets (Veteran Zoner) on Saturday, 20-Jun-2009 14:46:17

Personally I think the mac is a good system. As far as scanning is concerned, there is an application you can get called Readiris. Havne't played with that, so have no experience with it. There are several good resources out there. A couple of different mailing lists you could get on, various podcasts, and all sorts of stuff like that. I've been a Mac user for a little over two years now, and love it. If any of you that are considering switching, need help, I'd be glad to help when you get your macs.

## Post 17 by monkeypusher69 (I'll have the last word, thank you!) on Saturday, 20-Jun-2009 20:19:14

you know that feature you were talking about Tiffany about all the windows being open .. Windows xp does by defaul group all open windows so it would also be 4 windows in the taskbar on an windows xp system as well.

## Post 18 by ¤§¤spike¤§¤ (This site is so "educational") on Sunday, 21-Jun-2009 11:44:55

To Skyla,
If you plan to use OpenOffice 3.1, change the file save as type from .odt to .rtf or .doc, for Office 97-2003. You may have to do this for all files, as you save them. This can be delt with on a Windows machine by getting the Open Document Plugin for Microsoft Office.

## Post 19 by WillieTheWoof (I'll have the last word, thank you!) on Thursday, 02-Jul-2009 16:53:03

Good evening Skyla. Perhaps I can share some thoughts from an instructor's point of view. I teach both mac and PC in NYC and when I work with a new user and especially one who is making the switch from PC to Mac I ask them to go back in time when computers didn't talk. This is the first one they have met and because of this they have no preconceived notions of how a talking computer is supposed to work. I do this because attempting to compare windows and Mac side by side impedes the learning process. There at some point will be a time when you can consider some similarities but not at the beginning. ONe of the hardest concepts to learn is interacting with content. This does not exist in Windows. I usually describe it as this. Imagine you are walking down a busy street with lots of stores. as you walk you fine one you want to go to. Think of this as an object on your screen. AT this point all you see is the word diner. ON the door of that store it says, diner. You know nothing else about it. From the street you open the door and walk in to the diner and the door closes. Now you can interact with everything here. People, food, tables and chairs. So, let's take a website. AS you move around the safari screen you hear toolbar, button, address bar along with the address and then HTML content. The web is primarily written in HTML and you want to have a look. You interact with the HTML content and wow! here you are on the page with links, controls, and text. You are restricted to the boundaries of this content until you stop interacting with the object or leave the diner. Voiceover is an object oriented language. Once you can grasp this concept you will be able to use most any application that voiceover acknowledges. VoiceOvers language does not change so as long as buttons are labeled and controls are classed correctly you will be able to do most anything. SNow Leopard will be out soon and boasts a rich variety of new features guaranteed to Make you want a Mac even more. Go to www.icanworkthisthing.com and find the link that says mac with voiceover. here there is much info to be had including guides on lots of interesting programs. If you have any questions I'd be glad to help. I think my contact info is in my profile. Enjoy your new mac when you get it.

## Post 20 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Thursday, 02-Jul-2009 17:13:48

That is probably the best description for how the Interact method in VoiceOver works.
I'm curious as to how many folks use the Mac at their place of employment? Of course, audio and training folks might be at the top of the list. How about other stuff? Anyone working in software developmen / web / Cocoa Basic? Anyone working with other apps used by other professions?
I don't see this advertised on LionCourt or the blogs, and if it is happening, I think it should be discussed.

## Post 21 by WillieTheWoof (I'll have the last word, thank you!) on Thursday, 02-Jul-2009 22:27:00

I know there are people who are either trying to work with xcode or interface builder but how accessible they are I am not sure. You might consider getting on the mac voiceover list which can be found at www.icanworkthisthing.com. Lot's of interesting folks doing interesting things.