# Help with midi and instruments

Category: Geeks r Us

## Post 1 by nikos (English words from a Greek thinking brain) on Tuesday, 01-Nov-2016 9:00:21

Hi all.
I graduated from my music technology course back in 2007 and I didn't work with music composition since then.
My job now involves working with audio only material such as talking books and magazines so I didn't use music software for years as you can see.
Recently I felt the need to start midi composing as a hobby but I am completely lost.
I like the interface of QWS, but the fact that it doesn't come with any instruments, or the fact that it hasn't got any vst support, makes it difficult for me to set it up.
I don't have a hardware synth so virtual instruments seams the only option for me at the moment since I am in a low budget.
As I understand, we can use vst host software to work between the vst and qws but the instructions I read don't make sense to me.
Reaper sounds very good and affordable but we still need to hunt for instruments to go with it.
I am not looking for anything fancy.
Just something simple to get me starting on midi.
When I was using sonar at university, I was working with roland tts-1.
It is a standart midi instrument containing the standart 128 midi sounds.
I am very happy with this one. If I could find something similar for reaper or even qws I would be very happy.
I am mainly interested in midi.
If I want to add voice on top of the composition, I would convert it to sound and mix it with audacity after.
Also if you could explain to me how native instrument products work it would be nice because I am lost with them as well.
I don't know which of their product would be more suited for me.
I have got a windows 7 laptop 64 bit and I am using nvda.
Sorry for having so many questions.
I feel as a beginner even if I graduated from music technology.
A lot of things changed since I finished and I don't know where to start.
Thanks
Nikos

## Post 2 by sandi (Veteran Zoner) on Tuesday, 01-Nov-2016 10:09:42

Hi, personally i have no idea how the windows things works, so others have to
help you with that, but what i do is take key tar, plug it into the synth Via the
usb, and there voyla, it is connected.
Am not good using audacity, so i use something instead that can cut mp3.

## Post 3 by Liquid tension experiment (move over school!) on Tuesday, 01-Nov-2016 14:40:18

if you really want to get into music, I would suggest starting very simple. reaper is a very good place to start, and you can find many a forum online to help you find sounds to use. Also, I am not sure if these will work in reaper you can most likely google it, but if you can pay 30 dollars, the main stage library is very very nice. I use it every day and rarely have to dig for anything else.

## Post 4 by nikos (English words from a Greek thinking brain) on Tuesday, 01-Nov-2016 15:39:00

Thanks a lot for the tips.
I will check the main stage library out.
30 dollars is not much.

## Post 5 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Tuesday, 01-Nov-2016 17:08:33

Nikos,
I didn't know they had electronic music courses in schools, yeah I'm a relic.
If software is anything like the old snakes / tape interfaces / keyboard racks we used to use, then it already knows to expect input / velocity / voltage from whatever passes for a VCA (Voltage-controlled amplifier) anymore. Getting patches into it shouldn't be an issue if you can find a library, now that all of this stuff's online. I take it you have a controller, doesn't matter what: wind controller / midi sax, keyboard, guitar withg midi controller. I'm sure there's more than when I owned a rack of keyboards / modules.
I thought some of this stuff was supposed to be universal now, e.g. you didn't have only Roland patches for Roland / Korg, stuff like that.
As to sorting it by bank for patching when playing, I don't know how you'd do that with a computer. I take it it's probably folders in your user space. Ironically, I knew next to nothing about desktop computers when I was playing keyboards professionally. I should think it would be easy to do, to say nothing of being slow.
I don't know if polyphony still gets in the way, some patches, what they call instruments now I guess, take more or less polyphony per note.
You said you don't have a hardware synth, but surely you've got a controller? You absolutely must have a controller or your sequencer can't memorize anything. I chuckle and remember some times when some guy throught he could load a track into a sequencer with just a module.
You're control's your master, not just for the notes but the dynamics, everything your VCA and envelope generator do. I know technically your sound source is now your software, but without a controller, I don't think you can lay a single track. Sure you can edit with the software, quantize and fix the timing, etc. but unless I'm completely out of it, you can't get anything without some device inputting. They've got crappy controller keyboards on Amazon even now. I'm sure you wouldn't want to perform with that, but at least even with 39 keys you could lay down some tracks even if it would take you longer.
Anyway hope some of this helps. I'm impressed now that you got actual Midi / electronics and synthesis education in schools. Lol at my university, all the professors were uber classical or Jazz people, and wouldn't have known a VCA from an envelope, or what to do with a sequencer. So good on you man, I'm impressed!

## Post 6 by nikos (English words from a Greek thinking brain) on Wednesday, 02-Nov-2016 3:24:31

Hi Leo.
The music technology course I took was a 3 year bachelor degree and sequencing was only part of it.
They were using the cubas software which wasn't accessible and my support worker was operating the software after my instructions.
At university they were using a sound module for the midi sounds a Roland XU2020
I don't know if there are any affordable modules or usb soundcards with midi instruments included.
Towards the end of my course the university gave me fanding to install cakewalk sonar on my laptop and I was composing midi that way.
But these days the latest sonar version which is accessible is 8.5 which is very old and I don't know if they sell it any more.
And I wouldn't want to spend money on outdated software which might not work on a future windows 10 computer which it's possible for me to get since my laptop is 4 years old.
My other option is to use the reaper software which is accessible with most screen readers with a special plugin but it doesn't include any instruments and I am lost.
So as you can see I can operate the different software but I am very clueless how to set things up for music production.
I hope to find some light at the end of this tunnel haha.
Nikos

## Post 7 by nikos (English words from a Greek thinking brain) on Wednesday, 02-Nov-2016 3:50:37

I also forgot to tell that I was using a usb midi keyboard to play the music.
I think I have got one around somewhere but I could get a new one if needed.
How to find instruments and set them up is what I don't understand at all.
I wouldn't mind using the microsoft synth gm wavitable or whatever is called, but there is some latency with it so playing wouldn't be very practical. But it's good for midi playback.

## Post 8 by Remy (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Wednesday, 02-Nov-2016 3:53:32

Hi Nikos,
I use Reaper pretty much exclusively now after originally using Sound Forge, then Audacity. I love Reaper. It's not fully accessible, but it's more so than most of the DAWs out there I have encountered. If you have any usable vision, it's even better, even with NVDA/JAWS running. I will have to look into Main Stage. I have used Native Instruments, quite a. It really does "sound" fantastic. Only thing is, you need to use the kontakt plug-in in Reaper to work with any istruments. You can honestly avoid most of Kontakts features and still have a lot of use out of it, But it is, to my knowledge, not accessible in the least with a screen reader. So if you don't have any usable vision, I don't know how well you'll do. As for MIDI, Reaper works really well here as well. Only things I can't do with it are the things I just don't know how to do. I'd definetly get a decent MIDI keyboard if you can, though.

## Post 9 by nikos (English words from a Greek thinking brain) on Wednesday, 02-Nov-2016 4:37:51

Hi Remy
I heard so many positive things about reaper and I want to learn how to use it.
There is also the osara plugin which makes it accessible to most screen readers.
https://github.com/nvaccess/osara
I am stack on the instruments part of it.
So how does native instruments work?
Do you install the contact plugin and then download instruments for it?
How much do they cost?
I think recently they made one of their plugins accessible but if I understand right it is self voicing. It is using sapi instead of your screen reader.
Sonar, even outdated it has got exactly what I need. I would install it and have already an instrument to work with and get started.
Reaper on the other hand needs much more setting up to begin with, but it is the software for the future.
Nikos

## Post 10 by sandi (Veteran Zoner) on Wednesday, 02-Nov-2016 5:29:02

What i have done so far was, get a m audio, 32 II, it worked perfectly for
what i needed, then i bought an Linstrument, and a Sea board. Usually for
fast and furious, i use the Vortex, its snappiness is a little on the slow side,
but it works, have not messed a whole lot with audacity, to be honest i find its
cutting and edit part confusing, but I'm on a mac, so won't say much as to not
confuse things.

## Post 11 by Liquid tension experiment (move over school!) on Wednesday, 02-Nov-2016 12:08:41

o my god you have a sea board? I want one so badly! how expensive are they? I know they work with logic with a plugin you can get.

## Post 12 by sandi (Veteran Zoner) on Wednesday, 02-Nov-2016 14:04:09

i gave like $1000 for it i believe, it is not really my thing , so will soon be sold,
Im looking into have a costume key tar made,

## Post 13 by $money (Veteran Zoner) on Friday, 04-Nov-2016 21:31:43

I myself use both sonar and native instruments to make my productions. With scripts they are both pretty accessible, and the Kontakt portion of native instruments is just one, very limited perspective of native instruments. I am a Jaws user though, so I'm not sure how it would work with NVDA, I believe you said that is what you used. You can find libraries for kontakt pretty much anywhere though.

## Post 14 by nikos (English words from a Greek thinking brain) on Saturday, 05-Nov-2016 11:36:25

Hi.
If I had sonar myself I would stick happily to the tts1 synth included. I don't need anything more than that.
But sonar 8.5 is the last accessible version which is at least 6 years old. I don't know if I can still buy it in a decent price.
I wouldn't pay 200 dollars for it like the most recent version.
Reaper on the other hand is only 60 dollars but it doesn't come with any instruments so I don't know exactly what to use with it.
I mainly produce acoustic type compositions so I don't need any electronick instruments.
The instruments I would mainly use are Piano, base, acoustic guitar, drums, strings, harp, flute and trumpet.

## Post 15 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Sunday, 06-Nov-2016 11:12:45

So a friend of mine from high school has been messaging me about trying out
Garage Band, his claim is he's a guitar player and uses it so there's no reason a
keyboards guy couldn't. So I brought it up yesterday and took a look.
Interesting stuff, will take time to get used to. How much are controller
keyboards these days? Just a USB model I guess, what would have been just a
MIDI out back in the day?
I'm also going to get a 1/4" to 1/8" adapter jack to run my instrument cable
from my bass into my mac. Online they say you don't need a direct box or a
preamp to do it.
I notice Garage Band has a click track, I don't know if you can set up voice over
bars and such, things like letting you know when the turn is coming up, for
those of us who had to record on click tracks a couple decades ago lol
Anyhow, just looking through it, it looks like what was once thousands of dollars
worth of gear just in the software. Preams, effects, everything. Plus software
instruments if you have a controller. Wow! Not new to most of you, I guess, but
new to this dinosaur lol

## Post 16 by nikos (English words from a Greek thinking brain) on Sunday, 06-Nov-2016 18:14:49

Garage band sounds very interesting.
I don't have an i device myself but I could try it on my wife's i-pad.
I am wondering if there are special midi keyboards for the i-pad or if we can buy usb to litening adaptor or something like that to connect a standart midi keyboard.
People are recomenting a 3 octive midi keyboard m audio if I remember right which is about 80 dollars.
Nikos

## Post 17 by nikos (English words from a Greek thinking brain) on Monday, 07-Nov-2016 17:03:41

Hi all.
I am bringing this topic back because I just found about an affordable general midi sound module called pianobox, by a German company called midi tech.
From some youtube videos I watched, it seams to be easy to use and it has got physical buttons to change the instruments etc.
The sounds are not bad for a beginner like me but I am sure there are more professional sounding instruments out there.
For my needs I think it is an ideal solution.
So I was wondering if anybody else used it so I want to know your experience before I spend money on this.
By the way it is 199 dollars from amazon.
I am mainly wondering if it works well with qws and reaper.
If it works then I can forget sonar since the latest versions are not accessible.
So what do you think?
Thanks
Nikos

## Post 18 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Monday, 07-Nov-2016 17:36:13

I think you want to make sure you have a pitch bend and modulation wheel or mechanism. I know that makes me old school, but those two tools are absolutely necessary on a keyboard controller for MIDI.
Else you can have the finest flute / sax sound but will sound plastic / like an organ without you being able to control the slight pitch / vibrato variations that a modulation wheel and pitch bend provide.
When I played out when I was younger, almost all my keyboards had both wheels separately programmable, save the joystick models which are four-directional so you can operate both simultaneously as one control, different set of chops to master that.
Again, even if you're not into big, scary, growly, 80s synth sound, these techniques are critical for even the most delicate flute sounds.

## Post 19 by $money (Veteran Zoner) on Monday, 07-Nov-2016 18:00:02

Yeah I found out how critical a pitch bend, and especially mod wheel are the hard way. It just sort of gives a recording a bit of life.
LeoGuardian:
While it is possible to plug in a bass or something directly in to the computer, I am willing to bet you are going to hate the sound of it, I can almost guarantee that. It is always best to pick up a separate USB audio interface for transmiting audio to the computer, that usually costs about $99 and will significantly increase fidelity. I am not sure exactly how much midi controlers are running these days, but if you're an online shopper, check out sweet water. They have great customer service as well as offering a 3 easy payment plan that requires no credit check.

## Post 20 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Monday, 07-Nov-2016 18:11:46

Sounds good all. I will never buy a MIDI controller without the proper mod and pitch bends. Probably sustain pedal too if I ever did piano. Hell dude, the gear I used to have, expression pedals for every dam board, same with sustain, and a chain of stomp boxes for the Fender Rhodes Electric piano.

## Post 21 by $money (Veteran Zoner) on Monday, 07-Nov-2016 18:18:13

Oh yes! Can not forget the sustain peddle. Can't tell you how many times I've left that and had to still gig. It makes the sound interesting to say the least.
I marvel at the amount of gear it once took to run a proper rig. It is mind boggling. I usually only need a sustain and anything else is handled on the board itself.

## Post 22 by sandi (Veteran Zoner) on Saturday, 12-Nov-2016 8:20:19

I just read back, GB is nice, but Strum is better, more expressive, of course
again, depends on what y'all use it for .