# let's talk about note-takers

Category: accessible Devices

## Post 1 by blindaudio (Zone BBS Addict) on Friday, 17-Oct-2014 4:52:10

So let me first start off by saying, I'm a huge fan of note-takers. A lot of people say that a braille display with a phone is better, and I do see their point, I just choose note-takers more. I like having different programs on my spacific device, and not only that, I also like how I can use it as a braille display as well.
I began using a braille n speak many years ago. Then I think I transfered to the braille lite, then to the braillenote products, and now am a proud owner of a sense product. Out of my pc and phone, I honestly use this thing the most.
My goal is to help others out with the note-takers they use. I also make a point of collecting them, just as a hobby.
I currently own a braille sense u2, pacmate omni, braille n speak 2000, and a voice sense. I'm looking into getting a braillenote mpower to help out some people in my district, or maybe a braille lite, for old time's sake. I used to have a apex, but it belonged to the district. I used it for about 2 years, and I don't miss it all that much.
So, do you have any weird collections of devices such as these, or do you know anyone else who does? Also, are you a fan of note-takers and if so, which do you prefer?
Would love to know your thoughts.

## Post 2 by write away (The Zone's Blunt Object) on Saturday, 18-Oct-2014 11:17:39

I am a fan of notetakers yes. Call me old-fashioned, but I don't really buy that iPhone plus display convenience as a substitute, though I have a Brailliant BI32 with a phone just as well. I absolutely love my brailleSense onhand which I acquired second-hand recently; it's been my favorite so far, though I've had all of the notetakers you've mentioned in your first post.

## Post 3 by rat (star trek rules!) on Saturday, 18-Oct-2014 12:57:24

I really like note takers myself, there's nothing like an all in one device with draille and a braille keyboard if that's what you want. I've had everything from a Braille N Speak Scholar, to a BrailleNote Classic, and now a BrailleNote MPower. With luck I'll be getting a BrailleSense U2 soon, so if you're interested in the MPower we could work something out.

## Post 4 by blindaudio (Zone BBS Addict) on Saturday, 18-Oct-2014 14:49:03

That would be awesome!
Please email me at: blindaudio@gmail.com

## Post 5 by blindaudio (Zone BBS Addict) on Saturday, 18-Oct-2014 14:50:21

Cool, cool.
From what I have heard, the braille sense onhand is quite tiney.

## Post 6 by GreenTurtle (Music is life. Love. Vitality.) on Saturday, 18-Oct-2014 15:19:40

Note takers are cool. Nowadays, you can't really use them as your main device like you could back in the 90's, but they still have their place.
I currently have a Braille Note Apex, which I use almost exclusively for reading. Since I don't like audio books, and, in fact, can't retain audio information nearly as well as I can with Braille, I always get my books from Bookshare or Bard and download them to the Braille Note to read. If I need to read lengthy web pages or documents on my computer, I hook the Apex up and use it as a display.
The only other thing I really use my Braille Note for is to store important information, like phone numbers, credit card info, etc. I mean, no one is going to hack a Braille Note, and, even if it was stolen, I doubt anyone would be able to figure out how to get the information off of it.
But that's about as far as it goes for me. It holds an integral place in my life, and I don't know what I'd do without it. But I would never use the internet on it, or the built-in email program, or any of that stuff. It's not intuitive at all, the commands make 0 sense, and it's unstable. My PC fills all my other computing needs, in other words.
As for note takers I've used in the past, I owned a Braille Lite 40 for many years. I still have it, in fact, but I don't think it works. Man, I loved that thing. I used to read in class all the time with it, or play the games. I got in trouble for that so many times it wasn't even funny. I also used a Type Lite for awhile, and that was cool, because it really improved my typing skills on a qwerty keyboard at the time.
I've also played with or briefly used both the Braille Note classic and MPower.

## Post 7 by blindaudio (Zone BBS Addict) on Saturday, 18-Oct-2014 15:39:47

I'm currently looking for a braille lite in working condition, but haven't stumbled upon one yet. They are hard to find, haha.
The thing that bothered me so much about the apex, is that I can't really multitask on that device. With the sense, as well as the pacmate omni, I can.
But I can't use the pacmate omni as a braille display, so that sucks.
Braillenote still doesn't support imap email. I didn't know the difference until I got a sense, and now, I love it!

## Post 8 by GreenTurtle (Music is life. Love. Vitality.) on Saturday, 18-Oct-2014 22:56:52

I haven't used any of the Sense line of products. I don't really know anything about them. How are they more efficient at multitasking?
Yeah, my Braille Lite is still sitting in my closet, but it hasn't been used in so long that I wouldn't trust plugging it in. The battery must be all nasty and corroded by now.
While I'm on this subject, I used to have one of the proprietary Blazie disk drives to go with my Braille Lite. At one point, the battery stopped functioning, so I would just plug it in and run it off AC power whenever I needed to use a floppy disk. Well, one day, I plugged it in, flipped the switch, and instead of the normal three cheerful beeps that signaled the device was powered on and ready for use, it made a horrible buzzing sound, and I smelled fried components. The back of it was burning hot, and needless to say, it was done for.
That sucked, because, back in those days, you didn't really have other options for transferring data to and from your device. There was Hyper Terminal, but I either didn't know of it then, or I didn't have access to a computer to use it.

## Post 9 by blindaudio (Zone BBS Addict) on Sunday, 19-Oct-2014 1:04:35

The braille sense allows one to run 7 tasks at once.
So if I wish to check my email, while using youtube, all while downloading a file, while writing in the word processor, I could do that.
If you ever do decide to plug in your braille lite, and it does work, let me know. I'll definitely purchase it from you.

## Post 10 by Leafs Fan (I'll have the last word, thank you!) on Monday, 20-Oct-2014 11:03:29

As others have said, in my own personal opinion a cell phone and Braille display aren't enough to make up for a Braille notetaking device. To me, in my own personal way of doing things, notetaking in the true sense of the word, jotting down credit card information or what have you, taking notes during a meeting or lecture, etc. ... to me there is no way that a cell phone or mainstream tablet paired with a Bluetooth keyboard or Braille display can accomplish that. Also as others have said, I prefer mainstream technology for most online activity, but I use my Pac Mate at least a little bit almost every day and would be lost without it, even though it is an antique by today's standards and I hope someday to get a Sense product.

## Post 11 by LittleSneezer (The Zone-BBS is my prison, but I like it here.) on Monday, 20-Oct-2014 20:28:23

I used a Braille 'n' Speak in middle school, a Braille Lite 18 9 high school, a BrailleNote Classic and a BrailleNote mPower at different times in college, a BrailleNote PK and a Braille Sense at work, and now a BrailleNote Apex. My mPower still works, but only when plugged in. The Apex is definitely my favorite of all of those devices. I use it for email and internet, as well as reading and storing important information. I do use it as a braille display with my iPhone, but I'm glad it's more than just a display.

## Post 12 by Henry the Great (Generic Zoner) on Monday, 20-Oct-2014 21:04:04

I started out using the braille'n speak 640 when I was in 4th grade. I pretty much learned how to use it by listening to those tapes that came with them back then. I learned the type'n speak witch is pretty much the same in middle school but I continued using the braille'n speak cause it was smaller I had way to many braille books in my book bag back then. by the time I graduated high school the pac mate was out and my cownceler convinced me that I should get it. I never learned it haha maybe because I was in college and I didn't have enough time but basically I traded the pac mate for a braille'n speak 2000. I still own it to this day. nothing like it. I have a lot of personal information in there like bank and credit cards plus numbers. Its nice to have that stuff and safe unlike a computer where it could get hacked. I don't know what I'm going to use once it finally dies. about in 2008 I sent it in to freedom scientific and the updated it and put in a new battery for 125 dollars but I don't even know if they service them still. let me know. I love the topic.

## Post 13 by GreenTurtle (Music is life. Love. Vitality.) on Tuesday, 21-Oct-2014 0:47:39

I have no idea if Freedom Scientific still services the old devices, but I dout it.
I never had the tapes that came with the Blazie products, but I did read the help file that was on the Braille Lite. I taught myself how to use it by reading that file, as well as the other documents that came on the update disks.

## Post 14 by Leafs Fan (I'll have the last word, thank you!) on Tuesday, 21-Oct-2014 7:44:39

I started out with a Eureka A4! It was a lovely device. then I moved to the Braille n Speak in 1996 and really was a huge fan of that for many years, until it broke in 2005. The disc drive accessory is something I also had, with its occasional ominous beeps and all. I too learned how to use the notetaker through the large help file, and I was really geeky about it and used each and every feature, even the wind chill factor in the calculator! It's nice to see that notetakers are still innovating and that, even though many are turning away from them, many see them as continuing to be great tools.

## Post 15 by KC8PNL (The best criticism of the bad is the practice of the better.) on Tuesday, 21-Oct-2014 8:27:35

I used a very early version of the braille N speak back in the 1980's, then a bns 640, then a braille lite 2000, then a braille lite millennium 20, then the classic braille sense in 2006, then the mPower, which I still have, and have used all of the notetakers currently on the market. The u2 mini, the u2 qwerty and braille keyboard models, both versions of the Apex, and even the Pronto. I tend to like the HIMS line of notetakers much more than those made by Humanware, it just doesn't seem Humanware is keeping up anymore. The BN classic was released in 2001, the mPower in 2005, and the Apex in 2009. Well, nothing new on that 4 year cycle which came and went last year. The Apex still has its place for people who are most comfortable with Keysoft and do not wish to switch to something new, but I'm afraid that market is dying. As for the notetaker vs. Bluetooth display debate, it really boils down to personal preference. I like the Braille Edge, another HIMS product, as it's kind of a compromise between a notetaker and a braille display. Another product like this is the Vario Connect from Baum, if they ever actually release it.

## Post 16 by maddog (I'll have the last word, thank you!) on Tuesday, 21-Oct-2014 8:40:31

I still actually have a braille lite M-20 in reasonably good condition. That is to say, it still works. though it use to get some sort of weird keyboard error way back when that I haven't seen in some time. Anyway, I loved that thing, and still do. I keep a lot of information stored on it. It's pretty much like how others have said, that this is probably one of the most secure ways of storing your important data without resorting to paper since you won't have to worry about it being hacked.

## Post 17 by blindaudio (Zone BBS Addict) on Wednesday, 22-Oct-2014 11:01:10

I had a braille plus original for about a month, and, gotta tell you, that keyboard is small. I sold it quickly, do to the fact that I could never manage to actually type something on it.
Instead, I purchased a voice sense, because it is so small and when I travel, I can easily use it with dropbox, and have everything right then and there.
I've always wanted to find an original braille n speak, but not many have those, and if they do, they kind of want to keep them. That's kind of like with braille lites as well, haha.
I recall someone here used a pronto? What was that experience like for you? It seems a little outdated, much like the pacmate omni.
I've always wanted to check out a braille sense classic. But not many have those either, and if they do, it's kind of like the braille lite, in terms of not wanting to give it up.
So far, the u2 beats them all. I have also tried the braille edge, but wasn't a fan of the keyboard.

## Post 18 by Twinklestar09 (I've now got the bronze prolific poster award! now going for the silver award!) on Wednesday, 22-Oct-2014 15:28:16

I started with a Braille 'n Speak in the mid-90s, then went to using a Braille Lite in 2000 and 2001; both belonged to the school district. Then in 2001 (after graduating), I was given a Braille 'n Speak, but it soon messed up about a year or two after that. Voc Rehab now has it, so not too long after, I purchased a used Braille Note Classic that I used for several years. It worked well, but during the time I had it, I had bought a Braille 'n Speak Scholar because I think it had a scientific and/or graphing calculator feature that I figured I could use for math classes. (I never ended up using that feature.) Soon after getting the Scholar, I sold the Braille Note. I also soon stopped using the Scholar, and found out later that it had died. Now, since 2009, I have a Braille Sense which I've used quite a bit since then. But recently, while I like my notetaker, I've been using my iPhone for most things. I still find I like using my notetaker for some things%2

## Post 19 by Twinklestar09 (I've now got the bronze prolific poster award! now going for the silver award!) on Wednesday, 22-Oct-2014 15:38:20

Sorry; my first post got cut off. Here's the rest of it:
I still find I like using my notetaker for some things, but I'm considering getting something smaller and lighter. Although I've considered several options, I think I will ideally want to trade my Braille Sense Plus for a U2 Mini or an Onhand.

## Post 20 by blindaudio (Zone BBS Addict) on Wednesday, 22-Oct-2014 16:39:51

Yep, I'd get the u2 mini, if possible. The onhand will be cheaper, but doesn't offer as many features, as you probably know.
I also had a braille n speak scholar, but had to sell it. I wasn't too disappointed, because I never was a fan of doubletalk, really.

## Post 21 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Wednesday, 22-Oct-2014 17:53:44

I'm curious:
Is there a way to download Bard books direct onto a notetaker? Used to use WebBraille on the PAC Mate to do that. But are there dedicated apps for this now, outside the web browsers, to do the all in one downloading of Braille books?
I could definitely see the positive to it if I could spring a few thousand for something, sounds like the Sense notetakers are pretty nice.

## Post 22 by blindaudio (Zone BBS Addict) on Wednesday, 22-Oct-2014 20:40:10

Actually,
The sense products, except for the braille sense classic, has a bookshare download app. You can grab books and it will even upzip them for you to the folder you want. Also the sense products do the vision Australia and cnb library, or whatever that's called from Canada. Very handy apps there.
Hope this is what you wanted?

## Post 23 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Thursday, 23-Oct-2014 10:29:13

Ah interesting. No NLS Bard app though, I suppose you could visit the Bard website using their web browser and download from there.

## Post 24 by blindaudio (Zone BBS Addict) on Thursday, 23-Oct-2014 11:26:51

This is correct. Of course you can play them on your braille sense product, not voice sense, because there is not enough memory.

## Post 25 by GreenTurtle (Music is life. Love. Vitality.) on Thursday, 23-Oct-2014 14:23:00

Ah, the first generation Braille Plus. I never owned one, but I used to date someone who did. He also had the docking station for it, so the tiny keyboard wasn't much of an issue.
I really liked it, actually. But it was much too fragile. The charging cord would break constantly, and if you dropped it, that was it.
But the RSS directory, music player, and the radio were pretty cool.
I'd love to try one of the new models of the Braille Plus, but don't know if I would want to invest in it. If I would do that, I would want to sell my Apex to make enough money to purchase one. But if the new Braille Plus has too many flaws, I would really hate to have gotten rid of my Apex, and unfortunately, I don't know anyone who uses one, so I can't try it out.

## Post 26 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Thursday, 23-Oct-2014 15:01:17

See, that's just it. In order to get the luxury of a notetaker, and I can see uses for one, I have to plunk down several thousand dollars. That isn't a complaint, just an observation.
So, sure, if I'm out at a community event, it may be useful to save my Bluetooth and use a notetaker to write things down. After all, it keeps your place in the file you're writing in. If it can go on Bard and download Braille books, then fantastic.
But, here is where the rubber meets the road: There's a concept in business known as the $50 golf ball. What that means is, you have invented an amazing golf ball. When you hit it, it scores much better, really ups your game. However, in order for you to make a profit, it turns out, you need to charge $50 per golf ball. You justify it, it's for a niche audience, it's also expensive to make with expensive parts. But to most of the world it's just a damned golf ball!
If I had several thousand dollars of bumming around money, sure, I'd probably buy one of the Sense notetakers. I could read with Braille on it for hours, unlike the iPhone which will ultimately run down. Also, I could turn it on and do only Braille right out of the gate. The document doesn't ever lose it's place.
Well, the NLS Bard app does an amazing job of this for reading books. But other applications for writing, you really do have to get back in the space to get where you were. An inconvenience? Sure. Worth several thousand dollars? I don't know how I would explain that one with a straight face to the Wife or the kid who may need that from us at some random crisis event.
I guess for people having the government buy it for them, this may not be an issue, provided you convince them you need it. That in and of itself may take a great deal of effort, what with budget cuts and such lately.
Not necessarily down on notetakers, but wonder if it's the $50 golf ball. Add to this, you have to use your computer to do everythibg to upload to the notetaker. We can't take SD cards and move data on those from the iPhone. More and more people are using their computers at work, and tablets / phones at home. I are one of these, these days. Maybe I'll buy a mac at some point. But I just bought the Wife a $1200 or so MacBook Pro recently.

## Post 27 by blindaudio (Zone BBS Addict) on Friday, 24-Oct-2014 11:56:58

Greenturtle,
I never actually experienced my cord on my braille plus break, but then again, I did have it for only a month, and the person who bought it from me, might have already broken it, haha.
The music player was honestly my favorite part of the device. And that was it, honestly.
From what I have seen, the braille plus second generation isn't the greatest device. From people that have used both a braille plus second generation, and the braille sense u2, like the sense products more. They can do more with the programs they offer.
Leo, I gotcha. I did get my sense u2 from an organization, and as of recent, seems like more people are actually having to pay for their own note-takers, rather than the government doing so.

## Post 28 by write away (The Zone's Blunt Object) on Saturday, 25-Oct-2014 5:23:20

Ah, I love this topic. It's so interesting to me; It seems that most self-conscious blind people are so wrapped up in wanting to do everything mainstream these days, especially in terms of technology, that a discussion about notetakers is somehow lame.
First of all, regarding the Braille Plus 18 second gen, uh, just, no. I had one for a time. Very well-built in terms of hardware. The braille display was pretty excellent, given that it worked with whatever app I wanted to use with it. which was actually not that often. Yeah... I actually traded my braille plus 18 for someone's braillesense onhand and I'm in heaven with the sense product in comparison with the bp18.
I hope my partner in trading isn't too regretful. lol.
Anyway, the bp18 is an android device, and no matter what some android fanatics wil say, android leaves a lot to be desired in terms of accessibility, especially where braille is concerned.
Now, onto the notetaker preference...
It's kind of funny you mention the 50-dollar golf ball concept leo, because that's something my state rehab counsellor and tech consultant told me.
This concept may be true for some, but for someone who's always had a notetaker handy, like myself, an iPhone with a braille display will always pale in comparison.
Kind of funny; states used to be eager to fund multithousand-dollar notetakers over stand-alone displays. Now it's pretty much the opposite. I had a chance to secure state-funded tech for a recent job I was hired for, and I was hoping I could get a u2 18. I would have been more than agreeable to that, and thought my counsellor would have been to; it's less than most larger braille displays after all. But guess what? She was more eager to secure funding for a Brailliant BI40-cell braille display instead. That device costs more than twice the price of the u2 18. Guesss where that shiny new display lives? on my desk. Guess how much it's been used. Maybe three times if that; once to do some texting on my phone, once to check out the Bluetooth connectivity with my mac and once to try and see how it works with system access on my PC. Never more. Is it a nice display? Sure. Of course. it's top-of-the-line. Would I have used a u2 18 more? You bet. it would have been thoroughly used (gently of course) by now. I would have broken it in I n no time.
Now, I'll address something else you said, Leo. You said you'd be hesitant to spend the thousands a notetaker might cost... But how much does a braille display cost? Not thousands? Yep. And with far less functionality. Because remember, a braille notetaker these days can act as a braille display too, and definitely in conjunction with an iPhone.
That's what I tried to explain to my counsellor, but she had none of it. I wonder why; especially since I can't ever see myself using my iPhone as a notetaker on a regular basis, no matter how excellent and shiny-new my display may be.
Of course, too, I'm someone who's had a notetaker at my disposal since I was eight, though, so maybe that's where my preference stems from.
Needless to say, I've been trying to sell my display and buy a brand-new Braille Sense U2 qwerty for that money. according to my state contract (in Connecticut) I can do as I please with my state-purchased tech, so if I wanted to sell it, I certainly can; I retain its ownership as per CT law, my counsellor even suggested selling it when she brought it if I wasn't satisfied with it.
So that brings me to my next point... Leo, you don't really have to spend through the roof for a brand-new notetaker. People have been buying and trading like-new used tech in the blind community for years, especially notetakers. That's how I came into having the Bp18 first, and then my BrailleSense onhand. Technically, I never paid actual cash for them, as each device was fairly traded for something of equal or similar value that I had in my tech toolkit.
It's a matter of two people having what the other might prefer.
Oh, and as for transferring and uploading files, no leo, with the use of dropbox, you really don't need the computer to be your mediator between the iPhone or tablet and the notetaker. You dont' even really need the SD card, though I use one myself
So notetakers aren't really as antiquated as some might think, and they certainly, I think, have more of a place in their target market than the fifty-dollar golf ball. lol.

## Post 29 by GreenTurtle (Music is life. Love. Vitality.) on Saturday, 25-Oct-2014 19:01:39

Thanks for that info about the Braille Plus. I guess I was expecting more from it, given the fact that the first gen one was actually a pretty decent note taker for its time, despite the flaws in its design.
I also know what you mean about always having a note taker handy. I'd feel weird if I didn't have one too. I first got my Braille Lite 40 when I was 8, and, while I was starting to learn to type around the same time, I was doing that with Write Out Loud on a Mac. And back in those days (late 90's), we all know what Apple's accessibility was like. So my attitude was kind of, "who cares? I won't be able to do most things on a computer anyway." Keep in mind that I didn't actually experience Jaws on a Windows computer until a couple of years after that. But at the time, I had my Braille Lite, which I could basically do what I wanted with.
Of course, once I did start to use Windows, things changed quite a bit. But I'd still never want to do without my Braille Note. To be honest, the reason I haven't seriously pursued one of the more modern note takers such as the Sense products is because, as I said previously, my Braille Note is only relegated to a few tasks nowadays, mainly reading with the display. I think it would be odd for me to be able to use Dropbox and actually have a decent web browsing experience on a note taker, even if it would be convenient.
The only reason I was curious about the Braille Plus was because of its capability to act as a phone without having to be the dreaded touch screen, lol.
Call me old-fashioned, or weird, or what have you, but I like having different devices to do different things. I've never understood people who can depend on their phones for everything. It's disconcerting to me, and is one of the reasons I've been reluctant to get an IPhone, although I've been saying for awhile that I should, and I know it would be beneficial in a lot of ways. I just don't like the culture surrounding it, if you know what I mean.

## Post 30 by blindaudio (Zone BBS Addict) on Saturday, 25-Oct-2014 19:11:57

I understand you here, really I do.
I use my pc, sense, and iphone for all different things. The main device I use however, is my braille sense, because I like braille keyboards, and it is small. That and I haven't really gotten used to programs such as safari and other apple applications.
This being said, the iphone I can call and text and use the sense as my display. It also has good radio streaming abilities with certain things like tunein. And of course, I couldn't live without my pc because I do music editing, games, and some powerpoint stuff on it as well.
I, like you, was also interested in the braille plus second gen. But I'm really glad I didn't get it. From what I heard, trying to actually use it as a cell phone doesn't work to well, because lots of people actually can't hear your voice, from what I have heard.

## Post 31 by GreenTurtle (Music is life. Love. Vitality.) on Saturday, 25-Oct-2014 19:23:40

Yeah, I heard that it always goes to speaker phone, even if you have a headset plugged in, which really isn't cool if you don't want everyone hearing your conversations, as I'm sure the vast majority of us don't.

## Post 32 by blindaudio (Zone BBS Addict) on Saturday, 25-Oct-2014 20:46:45

Yeah, this is correct.
I did think about getting that particular device, but realized, hey, I could get a sense and if I needed a phone, I could just buy one, you know?
Glad I have what I have, honestly.

## Post 33 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Sunday, 26-Oct-2014 12:27:22

The culture surrounding it? What does that even mean? A tool is a tool. I don't know
anything about what Bernadetta is talking about, when it comes to attitude about no
takers.I got my braille supply, a refreshabraille 18 first generation, for 1000 bucks. good
to know about what you said, about used equipment on the market. That's how I got
mine. I don't think I could really trade what I have for the note taker, as when you look
on the market, and 18 celebrate all display does cost less then a notetaker. If somebody
knows differently, and I could still use that note taker as a braille display for the phone
also, I'm definitely open. Again, this was a first generation braille display, from 2009,
which I got for Thousand dollars.
However, using attitude from the community, or not wanting to be part of one culture or
another, is absolute and Piora lunacy, when it comes to tool used. Who in their right mind,
four instance, would ever say I will never buy a craftsman screwdriver because of the
culture or community? That is an argument is patently ridiculous.

## Post 34 by GreenTurtle (Music is life. Love. Vitality.) on Sunday, 26-Oct-2014 13:16:09

When I talk about the culture surrounding IDevices, I mean things like the epic sparring matches between IDevice users and Android users. If these devices were just a tool, as they should be, emotions wouldn't run so high when people discuss these things. They would be able to just relax and compare features in technical terms, not say stuff like, "OMG! You hurt my feelings because of COURSE the IPhone is better!"
Who needs that crap? I sure don't.
Secondly, it sickens me when people use these devices to parent. I really don't care how "kid-friendly" you've made your tablet, a child under the age of 3 doesn't need it. There are plenty of other educational toys on the market without introducing your child to overly complex concepts like computers and tablets and the like. I don't even think a child should have their own smartphone until they're teenagers, and even that sometimes has disastrous consequences. Note I did not say they shouldn't have phones; when you're school age, you should probably at least know how to use a basic cell phone nowadays, if not have one on hand for emergencies.
But overstimulating kids with these things, even the so-called ones that are designed specifically for children, is a huge no-no in my book.
Finally, the fact that people feel like they have to go out and buy the latest and greatest smartphone the day it comes out are ridiculous. Let's say you had a 5s, and you switched to the 6. Well, sure, there are bound to be improvements, but are they really good enough to pay $700 out of pocket, or however much they cost now? Good enough to cause people to get killed in the stampede to get them? I really, really doubt that.
I knew someone who had bought a used 5s about 3 months before the 6 came out. He was going on and on to me about upgrading. I had to ask, "so wait, why did you buy the 5s, then, if you're only going to sell it in a few months anyway?"
Plus, as I mentioned briefly, most people seem to think it's ok to just use one device for everything. Personally, I don't think you should put all your eggs in one basket, no matter how awesome that device may be. As you accurately said, Leo, it's a tool. And no sane person is going to walk around with a toolbox that only contains one wrench, right? They're not going to try to solve every problem they encounter with that one wrench. So why should their smartphone not be just another tool in their arsenal? To be a well-rounded individual, one should remember where they've been, where they are, and where they will be, so to speak.
What would I do with an IPhone? Well, I'd love it for scanning barcodes, identifying money, GPS features, and to try out some of the games. But I wouldn't just drop my PC and note taker like hot potatoes and have some sort of glorified epiphany.
So maybe culture isn't the right word to describe what I'm saying. But these things happen too often for them to be considered isolated incidents, too.
I realize I don't have to take part in any of that madness. I realize that I can use an IPhone as a tool. But guess what? If I buy one, I buy the whole package, warts and all. If I buy an IPhone, I'm condoning the people who use them to parent. If I buy an IPhone, I'm psychologically inclined to take a side in those "phone wars."
This is why I will most certainly understand them from a technical standpoint. I'll understand what they can do. But I don't know if I, personally, can put aside my disdain for all those things I mentioned above.

## Post 35 by contradiction (aww, I always knew my opinion mattered to you!) on Sunday, 26-Oct-2014 14:56:44

Very well articulated, GreenTurtle.

## Post 36 by chelslicious (like it or not, I'm gonna say what I mean. all the time.) on Sunday, 26-Oct-2014 15:32:32

to answer the question of why people would put everything that they could on one device: it's incredibly valuable to have access to everything on one device; I say that as someone who used to wonder the same thing GT did, before I became an iPhone user.
I flat out used to adopt the attitude that GT currently has, about phones only meant to be phones.
however, now that I've seen for myself firsthand what the iPhone's capabilities are, I've learned that, as silly as this will sound to some, the world is truly open to me, in ways that it wasn't, before owning an iPhone.
if that is not truly a great thing, I have no idea what is.

## Post 37 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Sunday, 26-Oct-2014 22:04:17

GT: I own a machete. I'm even reasonably proud of my skill with a machete, for utilitarian
purposes.
Now, there are cultures of evil people who hack defenseless people to death with
machetes. Only a child would say I'm buying into that whole thing, warts and all,
supporting the hacking to death of innocent civilians because I own a machete.
So, buy an Android, an iPhone, or neither. But do so using your intelligence, not Tumblr
SJW groupthink.
I may someday buy a note taker, I don't know. But buying tools doesn't support other
people's stupidity or savagery.

## Post 38 by write away (The Zone's Blunt Object) on Monday, 27-Oct-2014 0:20:53

Well GT, I am an avid iPhone user. I also have an iPad. I also have a two-year-old... And I despise iDevice parenting too. I really do. And you know what? No matter how my family ridicules me for being "weird" and for "not letting the kid do what all kids his age do nowadays," my toddler has no access to my iPhone. He cannot use my iPad. And my family members with iPhones have happily handed him over theirs for a short time to distract him, to entertain him, to make him laugh or to impress him... And I just as purposefully go and take that phone away every time. I dont' care who's it is. And I go to that iPhone user, give them back their phone along with a piece of my mind so that hopefully, that iPhone doesn't find its way into my kids hands anytime i the near future again.
Still, I repeat, I am an avid iPhone user. I wouldn't give it up just because my fellow peers and parents are stupid and prone to idiotic fads. My phone is indespensible to me, and that's all that matters. Who cares about the so-called culture surrounding, what you say yourself is a tool, if that tool can be helpful and useful to you. I hate the fact that cows get slaughtered on a regular bais... but I'm not giving up my steak just yet because I crave it. lol.
Yeah, poor analogy, maybe, but my point is you shouldn't sacrifice something you might find useful or enjoy just because others are acting stupid about it.
And to anser your question Leo, the notetaker I have, the Braillesense on-hand, is an eighteen-cell notetaker, and used, it goes for less than a thousand nowadays, usually. It can act as a braille display for the iPhone; it does so flawlessly in fact. But it also has a host of superior stand-alone functions and apps, that are exceptionally productive even in terms of notetakers alone. I can browse the internet with it just as efficiently as I would on an iPhone something you couldnt' really do on a different line of notetakers. I have a dedicated daisy bookreading app that I can use without even engaging my phone. I have a microsoft-word compatible word processor at my disposal almost immediately, and it keeps my place if I turn the notetaker off and then come bakc to it later. It can accomodate up to 32-gb in SD cards, and the same with jump drives. And that, as I said, is in addition to the iPhone braille display capabilities. Oh. and did I mention it has its own scientific calculator, timer/stopwatch, address book, appointmet scheduler, etc. And I used to have a refreshabraille, so I know that this notetaker is smaller than even that display. And certainly more comfortable to scroll with during lengthy durations of reading.
I'm not trying to gloss it over or sell you the idea, I'm merely making you aware of what a notetaker like this one can do compared with a regular braille display... oh. and you have a dedicated dropbox and facebook app to use as well.
But yeah, all this for less than a thousand usually, because this model is a predecessor of the latest one which is the u2mini.

## Post 39 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Monday, 27-Oct-2014 8:06:46

Oh my god, Bernadetta, I simply had no idea! I hate the scrolling on that RefreshaBraille!
I admit, I'm blown away!

## Post 40 by blindaudio (Zone BBS Addict) on Monday, 27-Oct-2014 12:15:08

I almost did get a braille sense onhand, but it didn't have all of the features I wanted. It is definitely tiney, I'll give you that one.
In addition to having a braille sense u2, I found a voice sense for a good deal. Really good for traveling on vacation, (paid).

## Post 41 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Monday, 27-Oct-2014 12:28:50

I'm afraid if I was getting a notetaker it would have to be Braille.
Having DropBox apps and other modern applications is a huge benefit.
I can't speak to how governments do things: I'm a rogue, and I know it.

## Post 42 by blindaudio (Zone BBS Addict) on Monday, 27-Oct-2014 17:32:29

Hi,
Like you Leo, I'm a huge fan of the braille as well. I could probably get a sync braille, which is a small braille display that connects to the voice sense via only usb, but wasn't in the price range I could afford.
Minus the braille sense classic, all braille and voice sense products have dropbox, imap email support, nemeth braille support, and lots of other great features.

## Post 43 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Monday, 27-Oct-2014 18:16:50

Well, Dropbox would be a must for me. Use it all the time on my I devices.
Now, my current RefreshaBraille, I doubt anyone would want to exchange it for a Braille Sense. Lol lol there's always after the baby girl is out of college though.

## Post 44 by blindaudio (Zone BBS Addict) on Monday, 27-Oct-2014 19:53:37

I must admit, I did get to use a refresha braille, and I did not like it whatsoever.
That's just me, though, and I'm sure lots of people enjoy that product.

## Post 45 by Leafs Fan (I'll have the last word, thank you!) on Wednesday, 29-Oct-2014 11:07:23

I agree with what Green Turtle is saying here in some ways. I think that, as Chelsea says, the world is far more open to us all than it was before iOS offered VoiceOver. Now we can check anything online wherever we are, as sighted people had the ability to do before that time. I think where the culture comes into play for me is the holier-than-thou crowd that GT mentions. I have an iPhone, notetakers are so antiquated that I simply can't believe any blind person would think about using one! Android sucks! JAWS sucks, NVDA is the only thing I will ever use with Windows, and Windows sucks so I only use a Mac. We do have an element in our community that preaches that stuff quite a bit. I mean, obviously we have it in the sighted community too, but screen reader and notetaker bashing are unique to us. Everyone has preferences ... mine is to use iOS for most mainstream stuff, Windows with JAWS as my PC, and a notetaker for other tasks many have mentioned here. It's always interesting to hear other's views as well, and learn from them.

## Post 46 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Wednesday, 29-Oct-2014 11:16:12

Ah yes, learn from them. Learn from, say, people like you and Bernadetta, who usually put out information the rest of us didn't have. That bit on the Braille Sense is in the back of my mind for future reference.
Hell, I used a slate and stylus of all things, when out and about doing radio communications at a public event. Judge me or do whatever is culturally your thing. I can totally see how a notetaker would have been faster, couldn't be bothered to hook up the Bluetooth to the iPhone then scroll and find a spot yada yada yada, yes, just to write down a runner number and color description was faster on paper than going through the gyrations on an iPhone. But would have been faster than that on a notetaker, if the PAC Mate was any indication for what a notetaker could be.
Now that there is such an animal which can sync with my Drop Box, what a beautiful thing ... when I can go out and spring for one.
So next time someone wants to judge a notetaker user, judge me first, pad and paper, slightly covered up in the rain, slow boat to China using a slate and stylus. But, got it done.

## Post 47 by write away (The Zone's Blunt Object) on Wednesday, 29-Oct-2014 19:46:34

Well Leo, the one thing I do not like about my braille Sense OnHand is the fact that it only has a perkins keyboard. Nothing wrong with it; it's actually very very comfortable as keyboards go. It's strictly preference; My ideal notetaker would be one of the sense products with a qwerty. There's the u2 qwerty, which I'm actually hunting around for. I am looking to either sell my useless-to-me Brailliant BI32 or trade it for a u2 qwerty. If I ever do that, I'll be ready to get rid of my Onhand. If I do find that sweet deal, I can let you know. I wouldn't mind trading an onhand for a refreshabraille if I had a qwerty sense product in my arsenal. lol.
Believe it or not, aside from the scrolling bit, I loved my refreshabraille and only grudgingly let it go because I wanted to get my hands on that fancy schmancy new braille plus 18.
Ah. lol. Can you all tell I love my braille gadgets? haha.

## Post 48 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Thursday, 30-Oct-2014 13:36:41

Oh Bernadetta, I have used Braille less due to my RefreshaBraille: No thumb keys = lots and lots of hand fatigue when I read Braille for extended periods of time.
I put a for trade ad up on this site as a tentative experiment RE: what you were talking about. Now, if it's true that APH has a sort of notetaker app for the iPhone, I might just check that out also, unless someone actually wanted to trade me a RefreshaBraille for a notetaker like that.
So, we'll see how things go.
I'm more and more convinced that the problem is not culture as some call it. It's education. I thought you'd have to spend $4000 or something for a notetaker with Braille. And I thought they were incompatible with modern systems like Dropbox. So, it seems, some kiddies should probably get out of high school and stop complaining about cliques, and instead talk about what's out there, make an actual case for the notetaker in the modern world. I feel like Bernadetta has done this artfully and with intent to rationally prove an argument. That's a sure fire way to convince ol' Leo to take a long look.
And, I hope for your sake, Bernadetta, that you get the deal you want. I won't mind a Braille keyboard, can use both easily enough for what I need. So, PM me if that ever happens, unless someone else has done something beforehand.

## Post 49 by write away (The Zone's Blunt Object) on Thursday, 30-Oct-2014 15:35:23

Nah, I like for my well-taken-care-of tech to go into good hands, Leo, so I'll let you know if I get that deal. I really wouldn't mind a refreshabraille again because I'd never use it to read an actual book. hahaha. I'd need it for editing purposes. Like for my work; I prefer to see what I'm writing or what I've written in braille instead of just listening to it. I am really used to an eighteen-cell display so in my case, the more braille the better is not true.
Besides, I have this custom case that fits an iPhone and a refreshabraille which I'd love to use again. lol.
Unfortunately, I won't be able to get a qwerty sense notetaker with eighteen cells; I'll have to settle for the 32. lol.
But if I could get it, that would be a sweet deal all around.
Oh. Word of advice, Leo. Advertising notetakers or braille displays on the zone gets you exactly no where most of the time.
If you want, I can send you two lists I belong to where you can advertise your display. Both are dedicated exclusively to selling adaptive tech or other stuff that blind people might want to sell or trade.
Let me know and I can message them to you .

## Post 50 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Thursday, 30-Oct-2014 15:42:44

Ok, that would be great.
I bought the display off this site, actually, and also have bought a few other things on here, so occasionally it works for some.
Would be glad for the email lists, kind of hope they don't overload the email inboxes but we'll see.
Thanks for sending those.

## Post 51 by Imprecator (The Zone's Spelling Nazi) on Thursday, 30-Oct-2014 18:43:42

I've had a U2 for over a year now and love it, especially for reading books. Just got my first ever iPhone recently and I use the sense as a display for it and for texting.

## Post 52 by maddog (I'll have the last word, thank you!) on Sunday, 02-Nov-2014 13:57:45

There is really nothing wrong with advertising stuff on the site. I once bought a braille display from someone who took good care of her products, and would probably look into buying one of the modern-day notetakers if they were being sold at a reasonable price. My M-20 still works though, so it would have to be a really reasonable price to actually get me to switch since I don't need dropbox for most of the things I do with it or any of the other modern day apps. They would just be a nice bonus.

## Post 53 by blindaudio (Zone BBS Addict) on Friday, 07-Nov-2014 20:06:11

Having dropbox on my notetaking device is honestly quite nice. I prefer it more on the sense devices that I have, rather than on the pc.
I'm thinking of selling my voice sense which has dropbox on it, just because I can't seem to type as quickly as I might like with it.
Not sure yet, however. It's so small and easy to carry, I might miss the portability of the product.

## Post 54 by GreenTurtle (Music is life. Love. Vitality.) on Saturday, 08-Nov-2014 22:51:21

So, back to the topic of Braille Lites, or the older Blazie devices.
Do any of you guys remember the spectacular battery life those things had? I remember how there was an item in the status menu that would keep track of how many hours and minutes the battery had been in use for between charges. You had to reset it each time you charged the device if you wanted an accurate reading, but it was worth it to me.
With my Braille Lite 40, I remember getting about 35 hours of battery life, on average. And that was with pretty heavy use. I used it during the school day, and at home as well.
Also, how many of you guys enjoyed playing around with the speech settings on them? There was a specific frequency and pitch setting that made the synthesizer sound utterly ridiculous. I can't remember exactly what it was, but I know that the frequency was set almost as high as it would go and the pitch was about halfway up.
Good times.

## Post 55 by Imprecator (The Zone's Spelling Nazi) on Sunday, 09-Nov-2014 10:24:31

I'm guessing that's because the workings of the blazie devices weren't so taxing on the battery. Yeah, I always screwed around with the speech in class and in the blindy dorms, to the annoyance of students and teachers alike. Heh heh. I even got it to make the sound of the wheel on the Price Is Right. Sometimes I'd call up a radio station and try to request songs with it. The dj's would be like what? I can't understand you, robot man.

## Post 56 by GreenTurtle (Music is life. Love. Vitality.) on Sunday, 09-Nov-2014 21:22:22

Lol, nice.

## Post 57 by battle star queen (I just keep on posting!) on Saturday, 22-Nov-2014 20:59:47

I started using notetakers in high school, beginning with a braillenote classic. I used it for everything, from doing class work, to reading, writing in my journal, etc.When I moved out of state, I had to use a braille and speak, which I wanted to throw out the window more than once. About five years ago, I got a braillenote mpower, gladly putting the braille and speak in a desk drawer. I use that braillenote for a lot of stuff, reading, class work, listening to music, etc.

## Post 58 by blindaudio (Zone BBS Addict) on Sunday, 23-Nov-2014 2:37:55

I have a braille n speak, but it is only for collector's sake. I do charge the battery from time to time when it goes flat, but that's about all the use it gets around here.