# Widows 7 , possible upgrade in the future

Category: Geeks r Us

## Post 1 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 24-Jun-2012 19:19:10

okay so here's what microsoft says i put my comments after there's.
Windows Aero support Your current graphics adapter won't support the Windows Aero user interface. what is this does it work with jaws and do i need it?
Outlook Express This program is no longer included in Windows 7. hmm, isn't the new mailing program called windows mail or something like that? I thought IE was always bundled with Outlook distress.
Status Details
Creative EMU10K1 Audio Processor (WDM)
Creative Technology, Ltd. Not compatible The driver installed for this device is not compatible with Windows 7. does that mean there isn't a driver out there for it? its the Creative SB Live! card from 2000.
Creative Game Port
Creative Not compatible The driver installed for this device is not compatible with Windows 7. i dont ever use the game port, so who cares about that.
Focus 2 Braille Display USB
Freedom Scientific BLV Group, LLC Unknown We don't have compatibility information about this device. that's great, microsoft. how about you guys. this is the 80 cell braille display, I got it in 2004.
Santa Cruz(tm)
Voyetra Turtle Beach Unknown We don't have compatibility information about this device. this is another sound card.
Programs Status Details
Microsoft .NET Framework 1.1 Not compatible This version of the program will not work on Windows 7. not sure what it is or why i installed it but there was some reason.
Microsoft ActiveSync
version 4.5.5096.0
Microsoft Corporation Not compatible This version of the program will not work on Windows 7.
Visit the publisher's website for a possible solution wel when i did that, it took me to the download page for active think, which i read only works with XP and before. so how do you guys sn sync stuff with your PAC Mates?
Adobe AIR
version 1.0.4990
Adobe Systems Inc. Free update available We don't have compatibility information about this version of the program. i guess the free update would fix things.
Kurzweil 1000 v.10
version 10.00.0000
Kurzweil Educational Systems Known issues You may experience issues running this program on Windows 7. well i am trying to sell my scanner and can't get kurzwiel to uninstall.
Microsoft Office XP Professional with FrontPage
version 10.0.6626.0
Microsoft Corporation Paid update required This version of the program will not work on Windows 7. really? my dad installed it and it appears to work fine. I use MS Outlook from office for email so i'd wana make sure that works.
Sony Sound Forge 8.0d
version 8.0.128
Sony Paid update required This version of the program will not work on Windows 7.guess im gonna have to pay to upgrade SF, since i use that for recording.
Get a paid update to a compatible version
Ventrilo Client
version 3.0.0
Flagship Industries, Inc. Free update available We don't have compatibility information about this version of the program. guess that means once again an updated version will work with 7.
All and all tha'ts the only things MS listed. it sounds like i'm good as golden just 'bout.
it said i dont have enough HD space, but i'd do a total custem install anyway (they said that's what i should do.) so i'd c reformat and go from there.
Any thoughts suggestions, etc? (no, i dont plann on upgrading my hardware unless i have to), and probably wont upgrade til april 2014.

## Post 2 by glori (Veteran Zoner) on Monday, 25-Jun-2012 16:43:26

I have a Pac Mate and use Windows moboll device center
It is in all programs.
Thank you,

## Post 3 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Monday, 25-Jun-2012 19:59:27

Ah okay so you acomplish the same task differently.

## Post 4 by forereel (Just posting.) on Monday, 25-Jun-2012 22:26:51

Windows 7 doesn't come with a mail client. You must use Outlook or Windows live mail, or Thunderbird, or something for a free version.
When you update you'll find that some of your devices won't work as you have been told because of drivers not being available.
All your programs can and will be updated to current or newer versions, so the ones you have now aren't going to work, but you'll have new.
All Freedom products should work, but to make sure call and simply ask.
Windows 7 will load and install all new drivers as required after you have it installed. This is a feature of the OS. The only real problem is making sure your computer has enough power to run it, so if you didn't get that on the report don't worry about it.
When going from XP to 7 it is best to do it by the method Microsoft states. I have done this on 2 computers and it is easy.
There is a program Peat mobile I believe it is called,that will save all your data and when you have upgraded you simply run the installer and put your documents, music and such back. If you need the correct name say and I'll post it.

## Post 5 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Monday, 25-Jun-2012 22:34:15

please give me the actual name of the program that i can use to backup data? that would be useful.
when you say some of my devices wont work, is that to mean that the sound cards dont have drivers for 7? or is that just that microsoft doesn't make drivers, but say creative or Turtle Beach will.
when you say that

## Post 6 by forereel (Just posting.) on Monday, 25-Jun-2012 22:40:35

Yes I mean there are no drivers for them. This is not Microsoft's issue but creative's in your case. Microsoft doesn't make drivers for hardware the companies that create it do.
If you want to learn if your cardsor any other devices currently have updates Microsoft didn't catch go to the companies site and put the model numbers in and learn.
I'll get the name of the program you want.

## Post 7 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Monday, 25-Jun-2012 22:47:38

ah okay. i thought microsoft made some generic drivers that worked with different things, but they are issued by MS, not by the manufacture.
the best way to get the actual model number is to use something like belark adviser?

## Post 8 by forereel (Just posting.) on Wednesday, 27-Jun-2012 2:19:35

In the report you have the information you require to use on the companies sites.
Here is the program I was talking about.
Laplink Software® - PCmover Overview
www.laplink.com/pcmover

## Post 9 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Wednesday, 27-Jun-2012 14:40:25

You are going to have several problems, the way I see it.
First, if you are going to do this by yourself, you may be out of luck when it comes to sound on install, because of the proprietary nature of your sound cards. I don't know if the generic sound mapper will send relevant audio to your Creative sound card or not.
Creative labs and turtle beach both, though the darlings of the audio industry, are problematic resource hogs when it comes to Windows. Here's what I would do actually:
Get a USB headset first.
Bring it home, plug it in with the computer turned on. Wait, and probably your default sound will switch to that.
Then, pull both cards and restart in XP.
Then go ahead and install your new Windows, you having a headset which will do sound for you through the install. I use a combination of Narrator and NVDA when I do installs for people.
Then put all your programs back on, make sure Windows is activated, and in so doing you have rebooted several times.
Now download the latest compatible drivers for your Creative Labs card and put them someplace on your hard drive. You need to continue to use your generic USB headset, I have a plug-and-pray Logitech which does the job but you want anything similar that is not expensive, suffer through the reduced audio quality. Plenty of sighted people who are into photography still have to use CRT monitors so the audio kids can tolerate a bit of reduced sound for awhile in order to get the system up and running.
Extract those Creative Labs drivers to a location on your hard drive where you know where to find them.
Now, turn your machine off, and insert the Creative card.
Reboot, and keep that USB headset plugged in. Microsoft won't try to switch to the Creative drivers until they're fully installed. Have a speaker hooked up to the Creative card anyway, so when it does, you won't be shooting blind.
Go through the hardware setup process, and after it is done, reset your default sound device to the USB sound card. This step is extremely important because to install that Turtle Beach card you may lose speech partway along the way if you're using Creative, and we run into hardware conflicts like IRQ / DMA or anything else. I realize some of this is a bit old-school but trust me, it works: I do it to sighted people who are as fancy-ants about their video and gaming as you are about your audio. And they also cry and carry on about the lower-end video being used to set them up, but it's just how it's gonna be till things are installed.
Now do for your Turtle Beach exactly what you did for your Creative card.
Find the drivers, even Vista drivers if you must, and get them downloaded and into a location you know where they are. Then turn your machine off and install the Turtle Beach crd. I have not installed one of those since the 90s, but I know they at least used to always be a pain in the ass to set up, so your USB headset as a blind guy is absolutely imperative!
Remember to have a speaker plugged into your Turtle Beach also, one for Creative, one for Turtle Beach, because you don't know what Windows is going to do to you / it. Windows is generally sloppy when it comes to these types of things, and I'm shocked the blind especially, are still using it for audio fancy pants installs.
Anyway, use whatever instructions you find with your download to resolve any conflicts, and once you have everything all set up, you've got to reboot your machine at least 3 times.
This allows all the registry hardware databases to be updated properly. Do not do otherwise.
Once it's rebooted, feel free to first set your primary sound device in Windows, and then unplug your USB headset if you've decided you don't want it anymore.
That is how you manage tricky hardware during a Windows install. I modified what I said to match the blind, because of our constraints needing to use audio to do installs. Trust me, I've told some of these whipper-snapper gamer snoots the same things, so they don't end up with dead or barely-readable video when trying to install.
If you have two or more devices that do the same thing, you want to only leave the simplest one installed.
That usually means onboard, but I suspect you either had no onboard audio, or you turned it off in the BIOS, which is why I gave you this as a recommendation.
Kick it old-school, and systematically install the troublesome hardware.

## Post 10 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Wednesday, 27-Jun-2012 16:59:25

yikes okay.i will be having sited help. the person doesnt know how to take stuff out of the puter, i know the sound cards are in the pc someplace.
so you have to pull out the cards, hbfore you install Windows 7, it wont automaticly detect these cards?
Would it be helpful if i sent the report to one of you guys? i do have it saved.

## Post 11 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Wednesday, 27-Jun-2012 17:39:59

Ok, if you have someone sighted, and competent, helping you install you needn't worry about the USB headset.
Note I said both sighted and competent. Anybody can install Windows anymore, but we are talking fancy-pants hardware here, stuff that isn't going to plug in right away.
You don't need to send us the report because you in effect already did.
I'm going to explain this again in a way you can understand without the blindness constraint of needing audio through the whole setup:
Because your hardware requires special drivers, and in particular your Turtle Beach card is typically a finicky install, the best course of action is to remove all hardware Windows won't install drivers for by itself. Those warnings in your original post, from the compatibility checker, about your hardware? Those are all about how Windows can't be depended upon to find the drivers.
Especially if you have two devices that do the same thing, you absolutely must pull the hardware, and your sighted technician will know this, if they weren't in diapers when Windows 95 came out.
Windows hasn't changed much when it comes to troublesome hardware installs. Its database for known hardware and known websites has just gotten bigger.
Might it find one of these cards? Possibly. My guess would be it would find a generic driver that would get audio through your Creative Labs card.
But pulling troublesome hardware first means that you get a good foundation, a good Windows install up and running (though mute, which sucks for us without a USB headset).
You always pull the troublesome hardware, get your new OS installed, then re-insert the hardware, from least to most troublesome.
In your case, this means you will pull both cards, the Creative and the Turtle. It's not a blind thing if you don't know how: my family doesn't either and they can all see, I'm the one does it. It's not eyes, it's technical understanding so let your technician friend do it.
Then put the Creative card back in, once you know you have a good working Windows 7, get that installed like I said, and it will probably start by using some version of the generic sb16 32 Wave out driver.
Then install your Turtle Beach.
Doing this way, you're going to be able to solve any issues with device cconflicts, well, your technician will. Again, don't just 'get someone sighted'. Get a person who knows what the f*** they're doing. Most people don't need this extra but you do, because you have the fancy hardware, which Windows notoriously gripes at.
As to how I got the job done in the 90s / before a Narrator or before an NVDA? Well, automated scripts, for one, and use of a bootable floppy, an Iomega zip drive, and a Doubletalk external for another. And a modified install of JAWS 2.0 through the early days of Windows 3.1 / 95. A royal pain in the ass, in other words.
But, what I'm telling you, was standard practice. The only reason anymore that you don't see technicians talking about it is most machines have decent hardware onboard - decent for most people.
Hope this helps you.

## Post 12 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Wednesday, 27-Jun-2012 17:53:38

now what about the ultra Graphics pro card?
it says it wont do arrow, but I gather that though it wont do that, the drivers will still work for it.
What is arrow, and is it useful for JAWS users?
do I need to pull the graphics card too?

## Post 13 by ¤§¤spike¤§¤ (This site is so "educational") on Thursday, 28-Jun-2012 6:11:43

I'll try to help out, seeing as I'm moving to Win 7 myself. Arrow isn't necessary for Jaws users at all. It usees up system resources and cpu cycles that you could use for other more important things. Arrow is a visual affects thing, makes the system look modern and shiny. You can disable the arrow stuff, but it requires you go into services.msc which can be dangerous if not done properly.
The services you need to disable to turn off arrow are:
Desktop Window Manager, set to manual and stop it
themes, set to manual and stop it
Here's more information. The link says its for Vista, but it is also for Windows 7. If you want the XP look, get Classic Shell.
www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/disable-aero-on-windows-vista/

## Post 14 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Thursday, 28-Jun-2012 13:39:11

I concur with the last poster, except that Aero will simply not install when you install Windows 7 with a card that doesn't support it. I have a machine here that works beautifully with no Aero support: It's 2004 hardware plus some extra RAM.
And no, do not ever pull your only video hardware out of your machine. Unless they have changed motherboards profoundly, what will happen is when you boot, during the power on self test (POST), you will get a long beep followed by two short higher beeps. Your input/output system (I/O) needs to have an out, and the default for every piece of hardware on the market is video, even if there is no screen.
The real moral of this story, and I tell people this all the time, if you must insist upon using real fancy-pants hardware that is "not normal," you need to either be very technically competent, or surround yourself with at least two technically competent people: one primary and one backup.
One very good reason I've been glad to see a lot of this fancy stuff be USB external, or even the basic new onboard video to be of amazing quality anymore. Part of your trouble is the generation hardware that you happen to own.The year 2000 was replete with support calls to video and audio manufacturers, and to Microsoft, and to computer vendors, because all of this hardware was often more troublesome than not. And you only notice it when you go for an upgrade.
It's a tough break: and I'm not being techie-elitist as many people imagine (and then cry later when things don't work when they didn't take the advice). You're just suffering from a mass amount of third-party-hardware availability plus few standards plus Windows being what it is.
If you can cough it up, you may just want to look at a new machine from a manufacturer that will let you preconfigure what you want on it online. Dell has this, but others will also do it for you. Lots of the newer hardware at its basic level contains what used to be premium features. And companies like Creative Labs produce USB modules which by definition are more hot-swappable and don't require some of the hardware resources your cards do.

## Post 15 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Thursday, 28-Jun-2012 19:38:40

Lio, what exactly do you mean by fancy pants hardware?
are those two sound cards fancy in some way?

## Post 16 by ¤§¤spike¤§¤ (This site is so "educational") on Friday, 29-Jun-2012 4:11:39

I think what LeoGardian is saying is that the drivers aren't easy to find for Windows 7. The older the soundcard, the less likely you'll be able to find drivers for it. Is there a reason you use 2 soundcards?

## Post 17 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 29-Jun-2012 13:29:48

Yes there is. I used to broadcast internet radio, and may do that at some point.
I also just prefer to do so when recording stuff, to have one deticated sound card for Windows stuff and a secondary for my music via Winamp.
This secondary card is also what I use for Skype calls, TeamTalk server, etc.
I dont know if this is the case, but in the New IE, or Firefox can't you set the sound from that to go to a different card too?
This way in those web players that i can't adjust the volume on, I could have that going thru one card and jaws thru the other,so I could turn down the volume of the secondary card, in effect turning down the web player.

## Post 18 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Friday, 29-Jun-2012 13:48:55

Certainly: at least by today's standards. Most systems come with onboard audio anymore, and it's quite good quality unless you are either an audiophile or a professional I suppose.
Even gamers, we set up with standard video cards, just extra cache memory perhaps but start out with that and then if they really need an upgrade go to something extra.
Your new hardware comes complete with a lot of this stuff built right in. Yes you can mod it, yes you can add to it, but that means you have already decided that you are interested in going to a lot of extra trouble.
This is the same sort of discussion my father used to have with would-be shade-tree mechanics, people who wanted to mod their cars. Now, he worked on his all the time, was always tinkering on it to keep it moving. But when you do that, you must always continue to tinker with it.
Bill Gates in 1996 compared computer users to 1950s people with their cars. But of course, we all know, cars moved on. So has computer hardware now. What makes more people computer users, is that fewer of them actually need to tinker. That means you really are in the wild a lot more, when it comes to you having extra add-on hardware.
There's a world of difference between 2000 (when many of us had Creative Labs cards), and 2012, where the onboard audio is actually pretty good quality.
You're in a profoundly different era now computer wise. I bet there are compatible drivers out there someplace, made by your manufacturer or otherwise. But you have now been promoted, or demoted, (depending on your perspective), to shade-tree mechanic rather than just user.
By way of example: The niece just got a computer, and all the off-the-shelf hardware in it just works. No need for old Uncle to come over and fiddle with it / work on it and get everything working for her, like I did for her mom 10 to 15 years ago. Your card is 12 years old, comes from a time when fiddle-faddle tinker around took more precedence than plug and play usability. Remember even in 2000, you had to install special drivers to get most your Creative Labs cards to work decently.
I hpope this better explains your situation, so you can make the best decision for yourself. I am a software professional myself. So for a computer that I actually need for work purposes, I will do what any user does now: get something that simply works so I can concentrate on getting the job done.
But, being a bit of a geek, I might have some junker hardware or hobby hardware, like the guy with the car on blocks in the garage, which is just for me to fool with and add cool mods to because I can. And if / when it screws up, I know I'm behaving like a shade tree mechanic / hobbyist, and am not financially or otherwise depending on the machine to be professionally primed and ready for service.
Look at it this way: The guy who mods cars for the fun of it, isn't going to mod the baby he has to drive to work with every day. If it screws up, how's he going to answer for showing up late?
So in your situation, I'd say get you a modern machine - mid 2000s or later - where the hardware just works, for your work and everyday use. Then if you are a bit of a hobbyist, have at it: Play around with the 12-year-old hardware, consider it a challenge to make it work in the modern universe. Some of that can be kind of fun, depending on how far you will go with modding. I hope this explains the difference now. I realize when you blew a hundred bucks in 2000 for a fancy Creative card with all the banks, the user and the shade tree mechanic were not so disparate from one another. But now they are, which is in part why you don't see those tiny dives all over the place: hole-in-the-wall computer shops who would mod anything and everything for users, and support them at least to a limited extent, until they went out of business six months to a year later.
You can of course get a USB headset / sound card, which by nature is a lot more plug and play. Happens all the time now.

## Post 19 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 29-Jun-2012 14:18:23

regardless of how i decide to do things, i'd want to get two sound cards somehow.
if one is internal on the board and one is external audio tha'ts fine, but somehow two sound cards is a must.
Keep in mind, i have a hearing impairment, and run my two cards to an samsung Amp with a fibe-band graphical EQ on it, with Sure headphones plugged into the samsung amp.
I also use a Shure external mick connected to a mixer which runs into the line in of the Creative SB Live card.
One thing that my laptop doesnt have which my desktop does have is the ability to let me hear what is comeing out of the line-in on the Creative card.
I should also point out when recording in Sound Forge, it is the Creative card that my recordings are recorded thru as wel as playback.
I've seen USB cards, and this could be an option I suppose for the secondary card.
However, isn't that extra wires?
You can't plug a USB card directly into the back like you can this PC, right? You'd have to have an extra USB cable I believe.
I took out the 56K modom a long time ago, and put extra USB ports in there so do have extra USB ports to play with.
I have a duel-core P4 3.0 GHZ processor. 4GB of DDR 3 Ram, and the SIS AG315-64 Graphics Pro card I have has 128MB of ram built into the vidio card.
I took a look at Windows 7 and instaling it. It doesn't seem like a lot of work, just a bit time consuming for if or when I do upgrade.
I already got important files backed up off the Internal C drive.
And besides, I just like doin that sorta stuff never installed windows before so this soundds like fun at least on the surface..

## Post 20 by b3n (I'm going for the prolific poster awards!) on Saturday, 30-Jun-2012 7:39:43

Hi,
You've been given some good advice here so there isn't really much to say, except for that you're mistaken about the specs of your system. The reason why you think your p4 is infact a dual core is because the OS is showing 2 cores due to hyperthreading - its actually only 1.
Also, you almost certainly don't have DDR3 memory.
How about instead of buying all of those software upgrades you spend the money on a new system and use open source alternatives? Almost anything will run better than your aging p4 will do.

## Post 21 by forereel (Just posting.) on Saturday, 30-Jun-2012 18:29:13

Well, I have to agree with the last poster. For $350 you'll hae a 64 bit machine that will work worlds better.
However, 2 sound cards is easy with Win 7 and Win 7 even has a feature that allows you to adjust the volume of any application with one card. I use 2 sometimes and a simple USB for Jaws and whatever you want for the rest is about a 15 dollar option.
AT Guys and Office depot carry the cheap USB.
On shopper.com Dell have a 620 with an I 3 and 6 GB memory, plus 500 GB storage for 350 today. I got one for a friend for Christmas and it is a sweet computer, special for that price.
But if you must upgrad just get the sighted person to install the 7 and than see what you've got. Follow the Microsoft instructions and with eyes it is a piece of cake. I have done it twice, but my computers were more updated than what you are dealing with. Remember, if your system doesn't have 2 GB it will be sort of slow, so maybe keep that one as is and get a new one as your main play baby. Lol

## Post 22 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Saturday, 30-Jun-2012 20:59:51

Wow. i wonder why the A T Guys who make this site have the USB card as so expensive then?
And since I probably wont upgrade till two years from now, the entire landscape may have changed then.
I'd have to do my research on processors at that point. Puters keep comeing down and down in price, so perhaps maybe custem built isn't the way to go at that point.
I remember looking at laptops over the holiday season for my parenst, and it seems right now you dont have to spend more then $600 or so to get a decent one. Desktops are probably the same.
My system has 4 GB of Ram.
I didn't expect all this advice from you guys and wish to thank you for all your help.

## Post 23 by forereel (Just posting.) on Sunday, 01-Jul-2012 9:04:24

On AT Guys the USB carde is 14 dollars and shipping, so not expensive. Office depot's is 17. I like it a little better after seeing AT Buys, because it is sturdy. AT Guys does allow for more features however, but if the card gets cracked easy it won't be any good anyway, and for me on the second card I don't require mike inputs.
It also have a volume control, so a nice feature as well. A good deal.

## Post 24 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 01-Jul-2012 15:48:35

yikes. maybe i heard wrong itss beena while since I looked at them.
Which one has the volume control, more features and a mike input?
Two things that is a must:
line input (seprit then mick input), and a stereo mix or "What you hear option" or that thing in windows that you can unmute the line in jack to monitor what is going thru it.

## Post 25 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Sunday, 01-Jul-2012 16:03:51

One additional thought, since it sounds like you know quite a bit of what you're doing. When you do upgrade, consider taking your older machine and putting a flavor of Linux on it as a adventure. Ubuntu comes to mind, and there are copious amounts of documents regarding how to get it to talk right away, etc. Just a thought for the older machine when you're done with it.
Because if you recycle it / give it away to FreeGeek - a great option in my opinion - that is precisely what they will do to it.

## Post 26 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 01-Jul-2012 16:06:25

Freegeek? what is that.
i usually port older hardware like HD's CDRW's and RAM into new boxes.

## Post 27 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Sunday, 01-Jul-2012 16:23:56

Free Geek is a service for recycling old hardware: they fix it up, put all open source OS and software on it, and sell it at cost to low-income folks to get their game on in the online universe.
I may get involved with them someday and help them out, perhaps when I am out of Suburban Jail / after the daughter's graduation, when I am back inthe city and can come and go like a real man again, rather than this existence I now lead and pretend to call living.

## Post 28 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 01-Jul-2012 16:26:18

hmmm. i'll have to check them out!
do they have a web presents?

## Post 29 by forereel (Just posting.) on Sunday, 01-Jul-2012 18:23:15

The one that A T Guys sells
atguys.com

## Post 30 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Sunday, 01-Jul-2012 19:38:49

Yes, just google them.