# PDA or Notetaker?

Category: Geeks r Us

## Post 1 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2014 19:39:28

I'm very much annoyed with my Windows 7 machine. I wrote about this here.
https://www.zonebbs.com/boards.php?t=28752
So I'm considering buying a notetaker or pda to use as a substitute for most activities. But I'm not sure which one would best suit my needs. Perhaps, if I explain how I use my computer, it may help with suggestions. Only 1 through 4 are truly essential, as I can do the rest on a laptop or desktop. Please note that, if you suggest a phone, I do not want to access the internet through a phone plan, as those can be quite expensive.
1. Internet. I use the internet for GMail, Facebook (mobile version), Google searches, watching videos on Youtube, and buying products. I have both a wireless and a dialup connection available, but no cable modem or router as that's downstairs, in the main house. So I cannot use ethernet.
2. Word processing. I use Wordpad for 99% of everything and Notepad for the rest. I save in rtf or txt formats, and require no special formatting to my documents. That said, if possible, I would prefer the ability to write, to read and to save files in Greek, both for wordprocessing and when using the internet. I don't use any kind of office software, like spreadsheets, powerpoint, etc. though a calculator, calendar and/or planner, and stopwatch and/or alarm would be appreciated.
3. Listening to music. The only three formats that I really use are mp3, wav, and occasionally, wma.
4. Backing up files. I use either compact flash cards or external flash drives. I would prefer a built-in pcmcia slot, as I don't like working with usb readers. I also don't like sd cards. I don't use any specialised backup software. I just copy the files onto my medium of choice. I would prefer the ability to use a minimum of an 8gb card or drive, though I see no reason why I should need more than 32gb.
5. Pdf conversion. While I despise pdfs, I often come across them and have to convert them to rtf in order to read them. Thankfully, this can also be done online if necessary.
6. Recording voice files and downloading music. I record voice files, either with my computer or my Wilson, but don't do any kind of audio editing, mixing, etc. I download things from Youtube using Songr, but I could use an online conversion tool for that or just download with a laptop and then save the files to my device.
7. Making videos. These are very simple ones of me talking. As with audio, I don't do any kind of editing.
8. Skype. I generally only use the voice features but sometimes use video as well.
9. Scanning printed books or using ocr to convert scanned pdfs. I need the ability to work with both English and Greek.
10. Printing. I prefer a built-in paralell port so that I can either print or emboss in braille.
As for product specifications, that really depends on whether I'm seeking a blind-specific notetaker or a mainstream one. I don't require a braille display or Perkins-style keyboard, though I don't mind them, as I am a fluent braille user, and I like the ability to translate between braille and txt. I have also heard that notetakers for the blind have a long battery life, and having worked personally with the Braille Lite 2000 and the Braillenote (from 2002) I can verify this. On the flip side, as we all know, adaptive technology is quite expensive. But to be fair, I have found some slightly older models for a few hundred, as opposed to a few thousand, dollars on Ebay.
Mainstream PDAs are usually far cheaper, but this is often cancelled out by the cost of screen readers for them. To my knowledge, there is nothing like NVDA for mobile devices. Unlike Notetakers, however, these are expandable and upgradeable. Plus, they offer the advantage of working with a large amount of software and they can be repaired or replaced much more easily. But I refuse to work with a touchscreen, and many devices are made that way today. I want something with a genuine keyboard. It must also be fully accessible, at the very least, in its core programs. I don't want something that I am only partially able to use.
I found a few items on Ebay, including several Pacmates (BNS and Omni QX400), a few BrailleNotes, an original Braille Plus, a Maestro with Trecker, and after 12 years of searching, a Keynote Companion! But I'll save that one for a later post. I didn't search for mainstream pdas, because I really don't know what's available that meets my specifications..
I also found these articles, as well as a few Youtube demonstrations, which gave me a bit of perspective on the various options available.
https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm12/bm1206/bm120604.html
http://www.braillenoteusers.info/docs/PDA-comparisons
http://www.aph.org/webcasts/brailleplus2/faq.html
http://arogatechnologies.wordpress.com/2012/01/12/braillesense-vs-braillenote-a-user-perspective/
Just to be fair, for those who are against adaptive technology, here is an interesting look from the positive perspective.
http://mosen.org/index.php/theres-no-such-thing-as-a-blind-ghetto-product/
At any rate, considering all of the above, which Notetaker or mainstream pda would you recommend and why? What is the oldest machine I could get that would still enable me to successfully complete my daily tasks?

## Post 2 by write away (The Zone's Blunt Object) on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2014 20:27:42

Honestly, today, a notetaker and a PDA are somewhat interchangeable. Here's a few things that stood out for me from your post.
You want a serial or parallel port for printing/embossing, but serial and parallel ports are extremely outdated. As in, no modern notetakers or PDA's feature them. I think the latest notetaker that features one or the other is a braillenote MPower.
You can get an older notetaker and most of your tasks might be manageable, but if you do, you can forget about watching videos on youtube or browsing the net successfully on them. Most of the older notetakers don't feature built-in wireless, and it's a major hassle to connect and browse the Internet. Even if you could do it, its not recommended to do any extensive web browsing on them (which by the way includes watching videos and viewing facebook, etc), because the ram in them is so tiny compared to modern ram capacities that the machine would be overwhelmed very quickly with that sort of use.
If you might back down on your stance of no touch screens, I think an IPad mini with a bluetooth keyboard might suit you well if you were going for a mainstream PDA. If you were to do that, you'd only spend about four hundred dollars for a new device--thsi includes case and keyboard by the way--rather than spending, say, four thousand. If you had a bit of money left ot spare, you could also purchase a refreshabraille braille display to complement your IPad. This would basically turn your IPad into more of a notetaker, and you coudl get a good, used refreshabraille for about 800 dollars. So you'd be spending 1200 in taht instance, as apposed to three or four thousand.
if you're very much against the touch screens and you won't budge on them, then I think aside from the iPad, none of the mainstream tablets would do you any good. First of all, as you said, most of them are touchscreen devices. Secondly, if it's not an iPad, it runs on the Android operating system. And that, if you're blind, requires you to have a more advanced knowledge of android and today's technology in general in order to use it. Android is not nearly as accessible as Apple's iOS whcih the iPad runs on anyway, no matter how many android enthusiasts swear it is. You have to be willing to customize and switch things up with your tablet if you plan on putting up with the Android opperating system. In short, stay away from android, which includes most of today's tablet and PDA's that aren't Apple products.
As for notetakers, I think if you were going to go for something older, I'd settle for a braillenote MPower, braille note apex, or a braille sense plus or U@ if I wer you. Those four all have qwerty keyboards--they also have perkin's style keyboards so it's a matter of choosing the right one.
If you choose the braille note MPower though, forget about doing anything online for too long, even with a flash cardinstallled. For most other tasks you mentioned though, the braille note MPower would be ok. For a cheaper options, you can also get the models of either the sense line or the humanware note line without the display. Used, the machines withotu the display would probab cost a few hundred dollars. So those are the voicesense modles or the voicenote models. as oposed to braillesense and braillenote.
There are some newer notetaker/PDA's out on the market today, such as the Braille plus 18 which runs on an accessible version of android, but its still in its most basic stages of programming where its platform is concerned, so it would probably be a bit useless to you. The first generation braille plus with a docking station, though, would probably be ideal for you. It works well when browsing the internet, you can use email on there and read and write successfully. Don't knwo if it has the ability to read greek text though.
Well anyway, hope this helps a bit.

## Post 3 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2014 20:57:34

I don't necessarily need a serial, as I would only use those to connect computers or to use a notetaker as a speech synthesizer for DOS. But I do like parallel, since I can use both my printer and embosser. Alternatively, if I can use a pcmcia to parallel adapter, that would be fine. I did successfully browse the internet with my BrailleNote, using a dialup connection. Of course, I didn't use Youtube then, but I was able to search for things and to use my e-mail. But at that time, I didn't have GMail, so used the KeyMail client. Someone told me, however, that I could use wireless on a BrailleNote using a pcmcia adapter. I wouldn't try Youtube on one, but I thought that the mobile version of Facebook would work well, since it's a lighter version of the main site. Just for clarification, what did you mean when you said that the machine would get overwhelmed? Would it overheat, stop working, or just work very slowly? I'm sure a DOS machine could handle it, but if these work on Windows, it may explain the problem, and I certainly don't want to break my machine.
I really don't want to spend over $500, $1,000 at the absolute most, and then, it had better do everything in the world but make my coffee. To my mind, less is better. So $1,200 for the Ipad and braille display is out of the question. This is also why I am looking at older notetakers as opposed to new ones. I have used Leopard and Snow Leopard on my Macbook and didn't like either one. I hate interacting with things, , and from my experience with the Android, I learned that I don't like gestures and hunting around a flat screen either. I do need to clarify on the mainstream devices. I am not necesssarily looking for tablets. It could be a palmtop or a phone as well and could run Windows Mobile, DOS, Symbian, or anything else that is fairly accessible. Even Linux, which I have been against for years, because it's so foreign. Still, I would rather that than a touchscreen. So if anyone can recommend one of those, I would appreciate it.
In the meantime, I'll do a search for the VoiceNote, Voice Sense, and so on. I did find a Braille Plus, for $500. Someone was also selling a docking station, though they said it was for the 18 Model, which I think is the newer one.

## Post 4 by SilverLightning (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2014 21:17:01

I'll make this simple. The answer to your question is no. There is nothing that
meets your antiquated requirements unless you befriend Dr. Who. You're just
going to have to get used to the fact that technology has advanced past 1985
and you're going to have to advance with it.
What bernadetta means by the machine being overwhelmed is that it would
crash. Old machines, and old programming for old machines, simply cannot
handle the internet of today. There is too much information, too many graphics,
too much data to be displayed. they simply aren't designed to handle it, so they
crash. And they do it quite frequently. Just because you once used a braille note
to connect to the internet, doesn't mean you can do it today. Its called
advancement.
Now then, let me give you one helpful suggestion, get used to touch screens.
They're cheaper to make, easier to use, last longer and are less prone to
damage than keyboards. Thus, they're going to become more and more
common as time goes by. They're already practically retro on phones by the
vast majority of makers and the vast majority of models even from the lesser
known makers. So you're just going to have to get over them.
Let me also defuse a bit of your misconceptions. You don't have to hunt
around on touch screens. Sure, you have to hunt a bit when you first get it, but
you have to do that on keyboards too. Try using an HP computer for example.
You'll forget to hit the function key to use the F1 and F2 keys all the time for
about the first month; true story. Its like that with every new piece of
technology. But you learn to use it. Its called a learning curve. I can type on my
IPhone without having to hunt, and I can do it faster than I could with those
tiny little keys they put on regular phones, or used to, since as I said, they don't
make those anymore.
So get yourself an IPad and learn to use it. Welcome to the present. Its
pleasant here.

## Post 5 by Imprecator (The Zone's Spelling Nazi) on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2014 21:24:54

Or, she could fuck off to Greece, that country she loves so much, and type out essays about torture and sterilization and the imaginary gods on her ancient manual typewriter, and have them delivered to her facebook friends on horseback.

## Post 6 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2014 21:42:15

SilverLightning, I must admit, for you, that was a pretty decent post with clear and logical answers. That said, I have used touchscreens, not merely talked about them, and as I said, I don't like them. As for keyboards, the Model M is still considered among the best in the world, though the earlier ones are prized above the latter. I now own one, from 1989 or so, and it's in perfect condition. In any case, I will not use an interface that I hate. I tried it and the frustration and annoyance, plus the steep learninv curve simply isn't worth it.
Imprecator, neither my patriotism nor my political views have anything to do with this. I am asking for help with a technological device. However, if I wanted something ancient and Hellenic, it would be an Antikythera Mechanism.

## Post 7 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2014 22:07:03

honestly? as silver said, there is no note taking sollution that will do what you want. but I disagree with him that you must get with the program on touch screens. The QWERTY keyboard isn't deadyet. if you are willing to work with windows (and by this I mean mainstream windows), i'd suggest a Dell Venue 8 Pro tablit. dont panic. you can hook up a keyboard to it, and you can configure Windows 8.1 to never show the apps screens. In other words, you can make it look just like your desktop. This is a device I'd consider for myself. Get the model with 4GB of ram.

## Post 8 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2014 22:24:02

I didn't know it could be configured that way. I'll need to investigate this version and how it differs from XP and 7. I can't remember offhand which one, but I know there is a podcast for the blind where it's discussed.

## Post 9 by SilverLightning (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2014 22:26:19

Tif, I also have old things, I love old things. I have quills and fountain pens. I
still use a computer. I've seen record players from the twenties in perfect
condition also, it doesn't mean I can listen to MP3 files on them. I can't even
listen to the beatles on them very well because of a lot of different reasons
dealing with length of recordings and I just don't feel like explaining all that
right now.
my point is, just because you have one from 1989 that is in good condition,
doesn't mean its going to work. It just doesn't have what is required of it,
because what is required of it didn't exist when it was built. That's how progress
works.
Unfortunately, in the field of highly portable technology, for many reasons in
addition to the ones I listed, touch screens are quickly becoming the norm. The
market is calling for them, because pretty much everybody but you gets along
fine with them. So you can either start using morse code and a telegraph to
post Facebook messages and watch youtube videos on an edison projector, or
you can learn to use what is available to you.
Now, are there things without a touch screen nowadays, sure, but they're
usually harder to find, much harder to make accessible, often more expensive,
and not nearly as portable. Just look at the size difference between iPhones and
the popular offerings from the galaxy line; much more portable and comfortable
to carry in a pocket.
Bottom line, so you don't like touch screens, get over it.

## Post 10 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2014 22:34:11

Tiff you will want to enable the boot directly to desktop feature in windows 8.1
Wayne, help? isn't there some way to make anything running Windows 8.1 only open desktop applications? i'm not sure if this is possible but I believe so. If not, maybe its in update 1 that is coming out in less than a month.

## Post 11 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2014 22:34:20

haha Well, I wasn't thinking of using my Model M with a pda. But it does work very well with laptops and desktops. Obviously, I'm not the only one who doesn't like touchscreens if machines with normal keyboards are still being made. I would like a small device, but I certainly don't need it to fit in my pocket. Something the size of a BrailleNote or Language Master would be fine.

## Post 12 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2014 22:38:23

you can get lots of stuff with normal keyboards tiff.
if you look at non-touch devices, these devices well duh.... LOL dont have a screen that has touch .

## Post 13 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 0:23:56

I know that many of the notetakers for the blind use Windows CE or Windows Mobile. I have also seen some mainstream handhelds that use them as well as Palm. But are any of these accessible in pure form? That is, without something like Keysoft over them? I heard that Windows Mobile may be, but I don't know to what degree. Also, what do the modern devices with keyboards use? I'm guessing not Android, as that's largely a gesture-based system. What are they called anyway? Handhelds, palmtops, or PDAs?

## Post 14 by write away (The Zone's Blunt Object) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 0:51:16

Tif, there aren't many--if any--mainstream portable PDA's with keyboards built in. Thatt's what you have Bluetooth keyboards for. A Bluetooth keyboard will work with a touch screen device, and you don't have to worry about the touch screen for the most part at all. Now, you've used a touch screen, but you've only used android if I'm correct. If I used android as my first touch screen, I'd also be willing to foregoe the use of them forever. Try using an iPad, because that doesnt' run on android. It also gives you a lot more text to speech feedback.
As for serial ports, technology today, whether mainstream or adaptive, simply doesn't feature those ports anymore. PCMCIA ports are far and few as well. you need to get used to USB or at least find a serial-to-USB adapter, because no new piece of machinery that will allow you browse the internet etc, will have these ports.
Furthermore, cody is correct. if you try to use old technology like the braille lite melenium or the keynote companion for instance, to browse today's World Wide Web, you'll encounter much difficulty. The Internet is much, much, much more advanced today than it was in the nineties. A single web page may take up a ton of your ram on such an old device just to load it, never mind actually browsing the page. Today's mobile pages are more compact than the full pages, but that doesn't mean they're devoid of the complex graphics, coding, etc that the full pages have. The internet has outgrown such technology a long time ago. and the technology buckles under it. it crashes so nothing can get done. I'm not saying it to be mean or irrational or spiteful, I'm simply stating the facts. You're better off just getting a simple XP laptop for a couple hundred dollars and using that. Or go for the braille plus, and buy that docking station--you'll need it. and no, the dockingstation you saw advertised couldn't have been for the newer generation braille plus--the newer generation doesnt' use one. There is only one docking station for only one type of braille plus, and quite honestly, I think that would meet your needs perfectly. it doesn't have braille, but a perkin's style keyboard is featured on the main unit. Once you clip it into the docking station though, you have a full-size keyboard and perfect functionality. I loved my braille plus when I had it; I actually used it more than I use the new one I traded it for. It's seriously simple to use and it has all of your needs--besides being able to use a compact flash card. It uses an SD card instead, but transferring your information from a compact flash card to an sd card would be easy enough, or you can always just get an adapter.
I'd honestly go for that one if I were you, based on your needs, what you want out of technology and what you don't want. The braile plus is not antiquated like your dos-based machines, but it's fully accessible and easy to use, and it works with today's technology. Go for it.

## Post 15 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 1:00:09

perhaps an xp system for a few hundred dollars could do what you wn want, but it sounds like you already got what you want in that HP laptop.
you could use 7 or use your downgrade rights.
are you really wanting another device? or are you only wanting this if if you cant get what you have to work the way you want it too?

## Post 16 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 1:11:22

As I said, serial is not necessary. But pcmcia or compact flash most certainly is. I hate those readers, and why I did find a nice usb flash drive, I still want a slot for my cards and for other peripherals. I don't want a bluetooth keyboard, as I have no way of checking the batteries and if they go dead, I'll be stuck with a useless machine until I could get more. Plus, it's an extra thing to carry. The whole point is to be portable. I have a case with a built-in keyboard for the Android, and it broke. Granted, it was quite cheap, but I still want a built-in keyboard, so that this sort of thing won't be necessary. Regardless, one person tells me that I can get lots of things with them and another says I cannot. *sigh*
My mother has an Ipad, though I don't think it's the mini. If I remember correctly, she got it last year, but has no intentions of upgrading it, as it serves her needs, which are very basic. Maybe, I could try that. But as I said, I had bad experiences with VoiceOver on the Mac and don't like tapping, flicking, swiping, rubbing, and doing little dances to get things done.
I'm actually trying to keep my DOS/very old palmtop thread separate from this one, since I'm interested in learning about newer devices. I'd say from 2007 until now.
I xdon't find you to be mean, irrational, or spiteful, but extremely helpful! *smile* Thanks for the advice on the Braille Plus. It sounds exciting! Other than the keyboard, what other advantages will the docking station give me?

## Post 17 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 1:13:54

Actually, a little of both. That is, I originally started out wanting another device because I wanted to change operating system after being infuriated with Windows. XP will no longer be supported and 7 is driving me up the wall! But I have also wanted, for a very long time now, to use something smaller than a laptop. I never really considered a notetaker, because they were always out of my price range. But since the older ones are now selling for so much less, I figured I would ask about them, and also what mainstream options are available besides IOS and Android.

## Post 18 by SilverLightning (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 1:47:02

2007 is not new. It was seven years ago, just in the realm of phones the field
has entirely and completely changed in that time. Its changed entirely in half
that time. You might be able to cobble together something that will pass muster,
but if you want smoothness or full reliability, not to mention the worry of
something changing and your technology being little more than a paperweight
with buttons next year, you're out of luck until you get a calendar and start
living by it.

## Post 19 by write away (The Zone's Blunt Object) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 1:48:07

Look--trust me. there aren't many options out there with built-in keyboards these days, no matter who may tell you there are. There are some phones that have them built-in, but you need to run them on a cellular data plan and I doubt you want to do that.
the docking station also gives you extended battery life; you can charge the braille plus through it actually , provided teh docking station itself is charged. So you'd just want to keep the docking station charged when you're at home, then, if you wanted to go out and take the braille plus with you, you just clip it into the docking station and you can charge on the go without needing an AC adapter with you.
The docking station also has some dedicated buttons, like menu, and some other ones so you don't have to root around lists and such to get to those much-used applications. I'd really go for that if I were you.
Too bad I got rid of mine just a few months ago or I'd have sold it to you for a good price seeing as I didnt' really need it anymore. Once I got my iPad, I didnt' use it much at all though it' was an excellent device. You should try to jump on that deal; and I mean that from an objective standpoint. i really don't think you'll find a better PDA in your price range that can do what you need it to do. You will just need to transfer your stuff from the compact flash to an SD card. basically the same thing, really, just a much smaller object. Think about half the size of a cf card and about half as slim. You can also use your usb flash drive actually, provided you have the docking station. The docking station actually has either two or three USB ports on it which is another benefit.
Oh. and you have built-in speakers on the docking station as well. Good sounding stereo speakers.
Plus, the braille plus uses eloquence as its speech synthesizer, whcih, you really cant' get a better speech synthesizer, or a more stable one at that.

## Post 20 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 2:13:43

I never said new, just modern, meaning more modern than my old BrailleNote, etc. I used 2007 as a starting point, but if I can find something newer that which still meets my criteria, I'll get it. But I can't get something from last year or even 2012, if it's assistive technology, because it will still most likely cost $1,000 or more. It anything, it may be only slightly under than amount, and I'm not willing to pay that much. If it's mainstream, again, we run into the issue of keyboards, touchscreens, and the like. So it will probably need to be at least two or three years old, maybe a bit more. Just to be fair, my HP Pavilion ZE5385US, from 2002, with XP on it still works flawlessly on the internet, as does my Thinkpad X60 from 2006 with the same setup, and my HP Elitebook 2540P, from a few years ago, with Windows 7. The only real difference that I see from a user's perspective, other than weight, size, ports, slots, drives, and operating system (in the case of the Elitebook) is that my latest computer is extremely fast due to the 4gb of ram. Obviously, there are major technical differences, but I'm referring to performance and daily use.
Anyway, the more I hear about it, the more I like this Braille Plus. I have never had something that I could charge on the go. Is it the size of a laptop, then, or smaller, and how steep is the learning curve?
Here is the one that I found on Ebay. It's $595 and not $500 as I first thought. Both prices are quite high. But if this will serve me for years to come, maybe, I will get it and sell a few of my other machines.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/APH-Braille-Mobile-Manager-PDA-for-the-Blind-BraillePlus-Braille-Plus-/261409870215?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cdd3e1187
Unfortunately, the docking station appears to be gone, which is a real shame, given your description of it. One of the reasons why I hate sd cards is that they're so small and easily lost. Maybe, it's the mini sds that I saw. Whatever the original KNFB Reader uses. I don't like them. Besides, I've been using compact flash for about eight years with no problems. But this Sandisk drive is pretty decent as well. As for eloquence, it's okay, but if I had the choice, I would use ESpeak, preferably with the Michel voice from NVDA, and set to Greek. haha But for English, there are some other very decent ones out there. Back when I used JFW (I stopped at 4.5), I would always set Eloquence to British.

## Post 21 by write away (The Zone's Blunt Object) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 2:26:19

Look o the site Blind Bargains.
www.blindbargains.com
there, you may find someone who's selling a docking station for the braille plus. I also belong to a few adaptive tech sales email lists and I saw a docking station being sold on there too recently. I can inquire for you if you want, just to scope out availablilty. I don't mind. :)
The braille plus itself will fit in teh palm of your hand. it's almost teh size of a full deck of cards--perhaps a little larger. With the docking station, it's nowhere near as large as a laptop, and it's certainly lighter. You also have this little arm rest that folds out and use, whcih I found really convenient when on the go. I understand what you're saying about all of yoru older XP machines being able to browse the internet adn perform other basic application functions, etc. But what I'm trying to say is those adaptive tech items you mentioned like the keynote companion, etc, have a lot less power and more importantly, ram, than any of your laptops. that's why they cant' handle most of todays' processes. They can certainly handle functions originally native to the machine as it was made, but sadly, today's applications and codes are well advanced over those created back in teh day, so many programs and online sites would be very incompatible.

## Post 22 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 2:57:00

I see what you mean. I thought you were referring to mainstream tech. Even the DOS users of today would think I was crazy if I told them the specs of those machines! The os has grown as well, and so has its capabilities. *smile*

## Post 23 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 2:58:56

Oh yes. And I sincerely appreciate your offer. If you do find anything, please let me know. And if someone has a golden oldy of any kind that they want to get rid of, I may be interested as well, so pass it on. Thanks again for everything.

## Post 24 by Faial (Zone BBS Addict) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 12:45:32

Simple answer! One iPad with a bluetooth keyboard. You have all your needs fullfilled!

## Post 25 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 14:01:17

Well bernadetta is right in the fact the android stuff is deffinetly not going away any time soon.

## Post 26 by Dolce Eleganza (I'll have the last word, thank you!) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 14:06:27

You don't like touch screens? I don't like renewing my cards, updating my
information because it takes a very long time to process and fill out paperwork
for, but I've got to do it. You can't watch videos on YouTube on your braille note.
Oh and by the way you can print wirelessly and emboss via blootooth, so you
don't need the cereal port for that. I'd say an iDevice would suit all your needs,
and it also goes with what you're willing to pay. With an iPad you can get 3G
internet, it's as small as you'd like it to be, you can watch videos on youtube
and brown the net, you can write and record and a whole host of other things.
You can always give touch screens a second chance, especially if you've only
used android. Unless you're willing to pay about 4400 for a ninny laptop plus
another 1800 for jaws and all the other programs to make it accessible. It is not
touch screen. You might spend more, but you can't get any quality and quantity
as you would with apple. Can't have it all, I guess. Besides, there's no time
frame as to how long you'd take to learn it. You might end up liking it.

## Post 27 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 14:08:02

this is lacking in ports so you'd need to possibly use a hub, but a more expensive yet excelent qualety option is the Microsoft Surface Pro . You could get the Pro and a power type cover keyboard that would be really fast and run all the programs you want, as like the Dell venue 8 Pro, its Windows 8.1 full version on a tablit.
the Pro is cheaper than the Pro2, because it uses last generation core I5 processor (named Ivy bridge, if i'm not mistaken.)
I suggest the type power cover as the power cover has a battery in the keyboard, which is suppose to extend the life of your Surface. if you just got a surface Pro with a non-powered Keyboard cover, you'd only get about 4 hours of batttery life. This is due to the first generation pros not useing the Haswell chips.

## Post 28 by Dolce Eleganza (I'll have the last word, thank you!) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 14:09:08

I meant about $600 for a mini laptop and $1800 for jaws

## Post 29 by Dolce Eleganza (I'll have the last word, thank you!) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 14:11:01

yes but it's still touch screen, even if you use the keyboard.

## Post 30 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 14:11:03

there is no way she'd need to pay $4000 for a non-touch screen laptop.
she wouldn't be using jaws anyway. her latest version is 4.5, and i forget what OS that stopped working with. lol

## Post 31 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 14:16:44

yes but you can turn off the touch screen apps.
besides. ok so she has a touch screen on that tablit or the Dell venue. nobody said she has to use it.
Ah $600. but you can get something good for less than that. she already has a laptop, so unless she was looking at something smaller and lighter such as an ultrabook, she wouldn't need to spend a lot.

## Post 32 by starfly (99956) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 14:19:26

she has a nexus7 and Tiff could pair a blue tooth keyboard to it. It can do facebook, twitter and more. If she has the 2013 moddle it can does some ocr and object recognition. Tiff upgrade that puppy to kitcat like now!. I agree get used to the nexus7's touch screen, you can flick and explore and getthis change that keyboard your using to any keyboard that is accessible like swipe from dragon.

## Post 33 by starfly (99956) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 14:21:49

Skype is quite accessible on android so there ya go, on, in kitcat you can even print from that puppy if you have a printer that supports it. Try talkback accessible talking editer tiff, it is quite useful and will let you edit documents quite easy.

## Post 34 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 14:43:52

Cody and others are right. My wife, who four years ago emphatically told me she did not want a touch screen, is now using a Samsung Galaxy Note 3 phone and a MacBook Pro.
If I remember your age, she is two decades older than you and she is doing it.
You know what? She loves paper. She spreads things out on paper and prints stuff off the Internet and emails. She's able to combine things so she can use both new technology and paper / folders and things.
So can you.
And they're right: I haven't seen a PCMCIA port or card in ten years, and I work in the technology field.

## Post 35 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 15:08:26

Dolce Eleganza, there's a difference between having to do paperwork for cards and using a piece of equipment. The one is necessary and you don't have a choice in how it'ws done. The other is a consumer's decision, so you can choose what and what not to use. If I can get an Ipad and use it strictly from the keyboard, and also not have to worry about interacting and whatnot, then I'll do it. I don't mind if something has a touchscreen, so long as it also has a real keyboard, or some kind of docking station with one, and I can use that.
I paid under $200 for my current laptop, but it's full size. I use NVDA, which is free, so I don't need to worry about the cost of JFW. The only other things that I bought are Recordpad and Debut Video Capture software, and combined, they were still under $100. I have never heard of a mini laptop. I'm guessing you mean some kind of handheld/palmtop or something in between that and a netbook?
starfly, I have a 2012 Nexus 7 and a blue tooth keyboard. I can do some things with it, but as far as I know, some of the controls for Talkback, and many for Firefox, can only be done from the touchscreen. Please, if I am wrong, and if there's a way to use it exclusively with the keyboard, let me know. That would be great! I have never heard of the editor but will try it. Thanks!
LeoGuardian, I'm 30, if that helps. *smile* Mom is 64 and loves her iPad, but won't touch any other kind of computer because she is the exact opposite of me. She hates keyboards! haha
All of this aside, let us talk about the devices with keyboards and different operating systems. Obviously, they still exist, or did so fairly recently. Has anyone ever used one? If so, what was it, what did it run, and how accessible did you find it? This is really new territory for me, or I would be naming products and we could continue from there.

## Post 36 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 15:15:17

Someone here is selling a Microsoft Surface Pro with touch cover for $1,025.00. That's far more than I'm willing to pay. Plus, it has a ten inch screen. My Elitebook and my X60 are 12 inches and have built-in keyboards. The Thinkpad has a pcmcia slot and the Elitebook has a cd rom, built-in microphone and built-in camera. So why would I want a tablet, which is only two inches smaller and lacks a keyboard? I certainly don't need a hard drive that's hundreds of gigabytes.

## Post 37 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 15:32:12

first you are looking at one with a touch cover. you want one with a type cover.
second if you did pay that much you are paying waay too much for this first gen tablit.
third, how much stuff do you plann to put on this hard drive?

## Post 38 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 15:33:12

you wont get the built in DVD-RW on the surface but will have to pair it with a USB drive.
you'd have to use USB adaptor bto get PCMCIA s slot

## Post 39 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 15:43:08

I could fit my absolute essentials on an 8gb card, though 16gb is a bit more comfortable. As for an actual hard drive, 60gb should be enough for my needs. I've worked with 40gb as well, but wouldn't go lower than that if I was using Windows or any other resource heavy operating system.

## Post 40 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 15:46:13

I'm not a huge fan of usb, as many things with that connection break, and it can be quite tempramental. I'll use it when necessary, but prefer either built-in extras or ones that use a different interface, such as pcmcia, parallel, serial, or even another type of card bus, though I've never tried those. I have never worked with firewire either, but have seen it on many devices.

## Post 41 by Dolce Eleganza (I'll have the last word, thank you!) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 15:56:03

what about cloud storage, like dropbox or iCloud? ever used it?

## Post 42 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 16:03:26

there you go tiff. get that surface pro with 64gb SSD and use OneDrive ?
actually hmm. if you dont like USB blehness, then i dont know what to tell you...

## Post 43 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 16:03:36

If I ever did, it would only be for music, never for any of my personal files. I don't trust such things. The closest I come is XMarks, which enables me to syncrinise my favourites across platforms and web browsers.

## Post 44 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 16:45:26

In order to learn about the mainstream offerings, I looked up a few terms on Wikipedia.
Handheld PC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handheld_PC
Personal Digital Assistant
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_digital_assistant
Palm-Size PC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm-Size_PC
Pocket PC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pocket_PC
smartphone
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone
Apparently, handheld pcs are all supposed to have keyboards, but companies don't always meet the original standards. PDAs, Pocket Pcs, and smartphones can either come with or without touchscreens. If I want something with Windows Mobile, I will need either a device that says Classic or Standard, as these may be nontouch.
I also read about other operating systems, such as Bada, BlackBerry (and BlackBerry 10), Firefox OS, Palm OS, Sailfish OS, Symbian, and Windows Phone. Has anyone ever used any of these? If so, on what device? How accessible was it, and was it relatively easy to use and learn? Could you easily transfer information from and to Windows XP or 7 with your mobile operating system using a card, drive, or cable, without extra software? Did you have to pay extra money for basic applications or were they freely included?

## Post 45 by forereel (Just posting.) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 17:52:15

I'd say your windows 7 machine is the best for all your needs. You just need to learn the OS.
It doesn't require a touch screen, and can handle all your requirements as far as using goes.

## Post 46 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 19:04:53

* you think serial is more reliable than USB?
Somebody hasn't had to straighten the pin on a serial adapter.
Oh and uSB is serial.
You're just cranky about new things, not being rational.

## Post 47 by starfly (99956) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 19:22:43

Firefox for android does have a few keyboard commands, you can get around the OS on your tablit with a keyboard. Yes sometimes you have to tuch the screen so talkback can read web views and have its global and local context menus invoked. Tiff did you update our tablit to kitcat? Its android 4.4.2 currently until google releases something else.

## Post 48 by starfly (99956) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 19:23:26

I ment tiff your tablit lol.

## Post 49 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 19:43:45

I must admit, I have really only used serial for connecting one computer to another through Active Sync, and for connecting synthesizers to computers. The only problems I've ever had with it are that the port on my Braille Blazer is broken and Active Sync was a bit finicky, so wouldn't always connect properly. I have never seen a bent serial connector, but I have seen several usb connectors either break entirely or bend to the point that they're not usable. I've used parallel for printing and embossing, and I've used pcmcia for my compact cards, for a wireless card, and to connect a floppy drive to the BrailleNote. All of these connections, except usb, have been stable and physically secure. But I have used several usb adapters and devices and they do work. I just don't prefer them, even though they are serial.

## Post 50 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 20:07:34

I'm fairly sure that the Android is up-to-date. I wish they would have either kept the male voice or would allow us to download it. Other than that, I didn't see any major differences.

## Post 51 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 20:13:30

Even if my Windows 7 machine is the best, I am still interested in learning about ones with a smaller form factor. This laptop is fairly slim and not huge, but I really enjoyed the extreme portability of the BrailleNote.

## Post 52 by forereel (Just posting.) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 22:21:31

A tablit like an iPad or Microsofts entry would be smaller. You don't have to use the touchscreen, but could pair them with a keyboard as described. Way more expensive then a laptop, but doable.
You'd not get Windows 7, but 8, so still have to learn the OS. Same with Apple, you'd have to learn the OS.

## Post 53 by forereel (Just posting.) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 22:22:22

A tablit like an iPad or Microsofts entry would be smaller. You don't have to use the touchscreen, but could pair them with a keyboard as described. Way more expensive then a laptop, but doable.
You'd not get Windows 7, but 8, so still have to learn the OS. Same with Apple, you'd have to learn the OS.

## Post 54 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 22:26:05

I would really like to keep under $500, and under $300 if possible. This is why I said that I don't need a brand new machine. I'm going to investigate other mainstream devices that are not tablets, to see what they offer. at the very least, I'll look for information on the various operating systems and accessibility. So far, the best suggestion seems to be the Braille Plus.

## Post 55 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 22:45:24

tiff... you wana pass on BlackBerry. no screen reader accessibillity unless its 10 from what i saw, and tha'ts not so good. somebody correct me, but i dont even know if Symbian and Windows Phone are on anything other than phones?
either way windows phone (an accessibil version of it) such as on the HTC Ozone hasn't been updated since 2007 maybe?
i never had a problem with USB connections.

## Post 56 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 22:50:18

This is good progress! *smile* Thank you. I will skip Black Berry, then, and perhaps Windows Phone as well, though I thought that was newer than Windows Mobile and was still being updated. That should be easy enough to learn from Youtube. As for phones, I thought some have qwerty keyboards. If so, then are there any that work with wifi connections as opposed to only cellular plans?

## Post 57 by Striker (Consider your self warned, i'm creative and offensive like handicap porn.) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 23:13:25

Its really like others have said. the only thing that meets most of your needs is
the braille plus. and it uses SD cards.
You're not going to be able to use older note takers on the internet,because
they don't have enough ram. Most braille note takers load the majority of their
OS in to ram. then, you've got the rest left for what ever program and file
you're working with.
Problem is, when most of the ram is being used already, and the pool is
small.You can't easily open huge files.
While mobile web sights pages are not huge by our standard, by the braille
notes standards. they are. asking it to cash a 1 to 2 MB page is just too much
for it to take, because as far as I know the braille notes that have PCMCIA card
slots only have 16 mb of ram.
So, no modern internet for you.
If you got a pacmate, you may be able to use more modern internet pages, to a
point. though, again, you're going to have problems with ram, and problems
with the browser being way, out of date. Most web sights only grudgingly
support some aspects of internet explorer 6 because they must. You're not
going to have good luck with most new pages that support html 5, newer
versions of CSS, etc. These new formats and coding standards are becoming
more and more common. So even if something works now, on one of those
devices, its likely to not 1 to 2 years from now, for a number of reasons.
Supporting older technology that isn't being used is not only a waste of time,
but a huge security risk. Its not worth it to the developers, or users of the sight,
because supporting older browsers means new more modern features can't get
implemented, and you risk the security of the users accessing your sight.
now, on to ports, devices, etc. I haven't heard most of these terms PDa,palm
top,etc, in years. I'm thinking most other users haven't either. This
demonstrates more clearly than anything, that these devices are old, old tech.
In modern technology times, something 7 years old is almost 20. Its like dog
years, vs human years. Technology moves so, so fast.
Most of the older mobile OS's you mentioned are either not accessible, too new
for your hardware requirements, or have software to make them accessible that
was developed by companies, but never made freeware. Take windows mobile
for example. there is a product that would make it accessible. But the company
that made mobile speak for windows mobile doesn't support it any more.
On top of that, most small form factor devices from 2000 to about the time
those devices were no longer made around 2009 may have had serial ports,
but they usually didn't have parallel or PCMCIA. Some did, but getting compact
flash on those was preferred. And even here, you hit the wall that is devices
that don't have enough ram and fast enough processors for the modern web.
Many of them did have serial ports, though even back then, technology was
moving to the Universal Serial bus, or Usb standard.
I'm not trying to be a jackass, but supporting all of your 1 threw 4 requirements
looks almost impossible. As again, most of these older OS's don't have TTS
voices for greek, etc.
the braille plus is your best bet, and even it won't do everything you'd like it to
doo...

## Post 58 by write away (The Zone's Blunt Object) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 23:14:28

No. if it's a phone, it works on a celular data connection only. Unless it's an android or an iPhone, that is. That's what I was trying to tell you. You can't go for any of those devices if you're not interested in using cellular data.

## Post 59 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 23:55:15

Stormwing, I can live without the parallel and serial ports. I am willing to give up the pcmcia slot if truly necessary and if the alternatives for backup are decent. What I really need is portability, a good price, and a keyboard, and if I must give up that slot, then I at least want good battery life.
I found Mobile Speak here. It works with both Symbian and Windows Mobile, and can even handle Greek!
http://www.codefactory.es/en/products.asp?id=316
They appear to have the trial download available, but no linke for actually buying the software.
When I look for a pcmcia slot, it's usually so that I can use compact flash. So a dedicated slot for those cards would be welcome.
Sadly, as much as I would love to do things in Greek, I realise this may not be an option. At least, not with most notetakers. I could understand why 1 might prove difficult, but I see no problem with 2 through 4, once the issue of file transfers is handled. I'll probably use my usb drive and then store things to my card from there, using my Thinkpad.
write away, thanks for clearing up the issue of the phones. I have used many mobile phones, but strictly for making and receiving calls. So I never even tried to find out about that option until now. I'm glad I asked, as it saved me much time and annoyance.

## Post 60 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Thursday, 20-Mar-2014 23:58:30

Actually, now that I think of it, I'm on a family plan with TMobile. I think voice might be unlimited. If so, then perhaps data is as well, which would open the possibility of me using a phone for the internet.

## Post 61 by Striker (Consider your self warned, i'm creative and offensive like handicap porn.) on Friday, 21-Mar-2014 0:01:12

Well, if you can use a phone, then i'd go iPhone with pocket sized bluetooth
keyboard. its a lot more user-friendly than android, and you can even use a
greek voice and keyboard.

## Post 62 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 21-Mar-2014 1:27:32

i'm still sayin go with something more moddern such as that dell.
i thought about getting a phone such as the Ozone but decided real fast it wasn't worth the price i'd pay for it.
now i'm glad i didn't.

## Post 63 by Striker (Consider your self warned, i'm creative and offensive like handicap porn.) on Friday, 21-Mar-2014 1:30:27

JH, she doesn't seem to want another windows device though.

## Post 64 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Friday, 21-Mar-2014 3:27:09

We've been discussing ram here, and I'm guessing that it has to do with the power of the system, the operating system, and the amount of ram present. I have an incredibly old machine that someone gave to me, which really shouldn't be running XP due to its low specifications. It has 256mb of ram, a Pentium II processor, and a 10gb hard disk. Obviously, it loads pages extremely slowly. But let's say that I put Windows 95/98 or DOS on it. Would it then load them quickly? If that's the case, then would one of the slightly older handhelds work for me? Not the ones with 1 or 2mb, but something much larger. How much ram does the Braille Plus have, and in all honesty, how long will I be able to use it before it becomes too obsolete to maintain? This is a serious down side of assistive technology. If something happens, say, to an HP 200LX, the userbase is huge and parts, software, and answers are readily available. But if something goes wrong with a Braille Lite or a BrailleNote Classic, the support probably won't be there, in most cases, the software is impossible to obtain, and the userbase is so small that finding someone who has one and who can help is difficult. This Braille Plus sounds like a wonderful idea and I really like it. But it's also almost $600 and that's a very expensive mistake.

## Post 65 by Ed_G (Zone BBS is my Life) on Friday, 21-Mar-2014 3:50:35

You can use phones other than Android or iOS devices to access the Internet
over Wifi as opposed to a cellular connection. The BlackBerry Curve will do this,
but the screen reader is sub-standard compared to the access offered by iOS or
even Android.
If you want something cheap and feel the need to be different, you could always
look at a Google Chromebook. You'll need a pretty constant Internet connection
to make it work though, as it does much of its work in the cloud. You'll also
want to check out how accessible it is, there was a review in Access World
around May last year that suggested it still had accessibility issues.
I agree with those on here that have recommended you get an iOS device with
a Bluetooth keyboard case. There are various options, the best of which is
probably the Logitech line of cases for the iPad or iPad mini. Sighted users still
need recourse to the touchscreen in order to navigate when using these cases,
but blind people using Voiceover do not, apart from when first pairing.

## Post 66 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Friday, 21-Mar-2014 4:06:34

I'm not really sure what the cloud is, other than online storage. Thanks for the explanation of the touchscreen and the iPad. This is good news. But do I still need to interact with things as I do with Snow Leopard? Also, one of the things I noticed with that system is that when I transfer Greek txt files to windows, they become jibberish and I can no longer read them on the Mac either. I have not tried another wordprocessing program, as I have not found one. Also, when I copy my files from the Mac to the pc, each one has a duplicate with a . in front of it. So I'll have coffee.rtf and then .coffee.rtf. The second file will be empty but will still be counted when I go through the files in Windows. I read that this has to do with the way that Mac and Windows handle data and it's some kind of fork. Finally, apple software and hardware is very Proprietary. Everything has to be Mac-compatible, and I'm stuck using only one screen reader, whether I like it or not. This, and the high price for Apple-related accessories and software, is why I originally chose an Android. Do any of these things hold true for iOS as well?

## Post 67 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Friday, 21-Mar-2014 4:28:52

Just out of curiosity, I went to Ebay and typed in iPad Mini. The cheapest one in America is $976.94 and the cheapest internationally (it's from Hong Cong, so who even knows if it's genuine) is $782.89. Each is well beyond my comfortable price range and even my maximum. For those prices, I might as well just have a customised laptop built! So while I sincerely thank all of you for your suggestions, I highly doubt that an Apple product will be in my future any time soon, unless I pull out my IIGS for some fun experiments.

## Post 68 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Friday, 21-Mar-2014 4:45:48

Wow! I typed in Apple IIGS internet youtube.com into Google as a joke, and actually found something! Yes, it is literally possible to browse the web on one of these, and the page didn't take 10 minutes to load!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PowUYedShYQ
I remember spending $150 on Proterm (I may have had TextTalker), in 2002, so that I could use my Apple IIGS that my high school actually gave me upon graduation. They were going to throw it away, but knew that I loved old tech, so decided to give it to me, along with a compatible printer and several boxes of paper. I was so excited that, soon afterword, , I called APH and they had only three packages left. So I grabbed one. Sadly, I never got to try it, though I still have the computer and all of the necessary software and hardware. I just need to get it out of the attic. But even for me, this is too old and would be a hobby at best. Still, I would love to try it.

## Post 69 by write away (The Zone's Blunt Object) on Friday, 21-Mar-2014 8:32:26

Um, I don't know what you saw on e-bay but you clearly either saw the wrong product or someone's really trying ot rip people off. An Ipad mini, brand new, costs around 329 to 450 dollars. thast' either a sixteen gb or a 32 gb model.

## Post 70 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Friday, 21-Mar-2014 8:51:57

Those are much better prices! *smile*

## Post 71 by hardyboy09 (I'm going for the prolific poster awards!) on Friday, 21-Mar-2014 9:23:16

Hi,
I just wanted to give you a warning as it relates to the BraillePlus:
If you drop it one time, the BraillePlus is doomed! Basically, the BraillePlus is a note-taker, which has a hard drive inside. It is not solid state, so it is less resistant to drops. It does have a rescue partition, but it can be damaged very easily, and I've heard the repairs generally take a long time to complete.
I had one and really liked it; when I went to sell it, somehow it got dropped in the shipping process, and all it would do is keep talking. I tried the rescue partition, but I couldn't get it to cooperate. I've never tried to get it repaired, because honestly, I don't see a need for it.
If I were you, and this is just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth, I wouldn't spend a dime on a BraillePlus. First, it's abandoned ware and APH doesn't even support it anymore. Secondly, if you drop it once, your basically screwed.

## Post 72 by starfly (99956) on Friday, 21-Mar-2014 9:52:28

I am still trying to save tiff money , you have a android tablit, rather then go spend money on an IPad, I suggest you take time learning your tablit. There are those who like me have used a android before it reached the level of IOS accessibility. As I said, kitcat has come along way with wevb views, system stability and all around system performance. If you want help with the tablit I would be glad to help, lets clear up something here, just because your have the system voice running, does not mean you can go change the TTs. Androi has e-speak, soon to have the voice jaws uses and much more to choose from. Something to ponder on as well tiff, firefox with flash installed can run YouTube with in the browser with out the actuall U-Tube app. If you want help side loading flash I can help as well. I guesss from what I saw your looking to not spend much, so spend money on a blue tooth keyboard and your set. go get talkback accessible editer for word processing, firefox for serfing, Skype ofr your VOP needs. Then our set as far as a PADA is conserned. If you really want to have a pone that will just run your about 300 then a nexus5 16 gig from the play store will work on any network other in vz. If you want even lower, the Motorola G cost 150, it will work on T-Mobile as well. Again you can take a blue tooth keyboard and pair it to the moto G and off to the races you go. Oh, the Moto G works well with Cam find androids count part for IOS's TapTapSee. :) Cam find is free and works well.

## Post 73 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Friday, 21-Mar-2014 9:55:35

Uh oh. That's not good at all! I literally can't afford to spend that kind of money to have something break that easily on me! This is really a shame, too, as it sounds like a great product.

## Post 74 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Friday, 21-Mar-2014 10:52:34

After some consideration, unless someone else can refute what has been said here, or unless there's some kind of protective case that I can use and easily find, I think I will need to eliminate the Braille Plus from my list of possibilities. That leaves me with something mainstream. I have always avoided Linux, which is odd, since Unix is older than DOS! But it always seemed like a strange and foreign system to me, with no drive letters. Plus, I would have to learn a new command system. But if I had to choose between that and some touchscreen operating, I think I would choose Linux. Then, I remembered that this is also the basis for Android! So could I somehow get into the terminal with my Nexus 7 and operated it that way? Is there a shell with menus, but a text user interface that can be used with Linux? If none of this is possible with Android, then do other small devices exist which use this system?

## Post 75 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 21-Mar-2014 12:18:39

Linix has some distrabution that isn't command line bassed, but i dont know how well it works with any so sort of screen reader that could be paired with it. i dont use it.

## Post 76 by hardyboy09 (I'm going for the prolific poster awards!) on Friday, 21-Mar-2014 13:30:08

Maybe if you got an executive products case, it would be safer against drops. Still, if you drop it one time, you'll definitely have to get it repaired.
There is a distribution of Linux called Ubuntu, which features the Orca screen reader. If you are used to using NVDA, I believe many of the keyboard shortcuts are similar. If you prefer to install just Ubuntu and eliminate Windows completely, you can, or you can configure Ubuntu under Windows to run as a guest machine. I've done this and am glad to say that it is completely accessible.
You can find more information at this URL:
www.ubuntu.org
If this URL doesn't work for some reason, just do a Google search for Ubuntu. Wubi is the official Windows installation, and you can find it and a full regular distribution if you wish to wipe out Windows completely. It would be a good fit for that laptop you described that only has 256 MB of ram. Ubuntu and Linux in general doesn't require a lot of ram, and therefore, can run on very little.
HTH,
Nathan.

## Post 77 by hardyboy09 (I'm going for the prolific poster awards!) on Friday, 21-Mar-2014 13:35:05

Oh, woops!, wrong URL.
Try this one: www.ubuntu.com

## Post 78 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Friday, 21-Mar-2014 15:01:56

Then I could use my HP Pavilion Ze5385US, with a 60gb hard disk, 1gb ram, pcmcia, parallel, modem, ethernet, 3.5 inch floppy, and cd rom. I just need the jack fixed on it. That can definitely serve as a full desktop replacement. And if I like this Ubuntu, I can get some kind of handheld and load it on there!
I remembered something called Blinux, and thought that it was a version of Linux for the blind. It's not, but it does exist. Apparently, Blinux is a portal for all things related to Linux for blind users.
http://leb.net/blinux/
I'll have to check this out. Maybe, I should move this to another thread, so the Linux users here can comment on experiences and whatnot.

## Post 79 by starfly (99956) on Friday, 21-Mar-2014 15:08:03

Sorry I give up, other then linux 's command line, I have no idea how you plan Tiff to accomplish serfing the web, OCR and more with old tech. yes android does have a command line but a terminal app is needed to get at the command line. I am not sure how much you can do as far as surfing the web and etc. Sise, I give up, the thoughts that are going through my head as I post this are not wurth posting here.

## Post 80 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Friday, 21-Mar-2014 15:16:41

As far as I know, Linux is still being developed. So it's not obsolete. It has a commandline, but I'm not sure about shells. Regardless, I'm not sure why I can't do all of the things that I want with it. Many people have already suggested it to me, and they wouldn't do so if it was pointless.

## Post 81 by SilverLightning (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 21-Mar-2014 15:51:35

That's not true. I suggested an IPhone to you. So clearly people suggest
useless things to you. I submit they did it to get you to leave them alone. Its
what most of us eventually do.

## Post 82 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Friday, 21-Mar-2014 15:57:00

I was not referring to you specifically or to this thread. Various people on here and off have suggested that I try Linux.

## Post 83 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 21-Mar-2014 17:01:16

speaking for myself, i suggested what i thought might meet most of your needs and not get you screwed cause it wont work with this website, or run that program or be too big a box or something else.
we all spend money on devices. might as wel spend it on something that will actually last you a while and do what you want. that , and make sure it isn't obsolete or will be obsolete soon. we all have differing opinions of what you should get (some beat the touch drumb, some beat the android drumb, and tha'ts just how people are. everybody likes different things and that's fine.
people on this site really do try to help anybody, when it comes to computers and things of that nature. its really a cool thing.
now tiff i know you like old tech, and wel for you, it is a hobby, isnt it?
in the end its your choice. but i think people will be able to help you better if you get something moddern, rather than trying to use a lot of different old old things to acomplish lots of tasks designed for newer products. these things may or may not be able to acomplish said tasks, and if they do, dont do it well.

## Post 84 by Striker (Consider your self warned, i'm creative and offensive like handicap porn.) on Friday, 21-Mar-2014 17:01:32

Most PDA devices don't run on linux. And even if they do, they use different
kinds of software, hardware, etc... Assuming you find something that works,
which is unlikely, considering linux PDAs were never popular, you're going to
have a seriously hard time finding the right software, operating systems,
adapters, etc...
then, you've got to actually deal with the problems that come with loading
access software on the device, and insuring it works with your hardware and
linux distribution.
this is a complicated process for many reasons.
there are as many different distributions of linux as there are brands of
toothpaste, soda, and music artists combined. Some are more popular than
others, true. But they're all different in their own ways.Its a complex process.
Again, not to be rude, but its probably way above your technical chops. In part,
because documentation in the linux world isn't as common as in the windows
one, or even the doss world.
Many things are open source, with many different quality standards.

## Post 85 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 21-Mar-2014 17:13:03

i'm not even suggest to her that she go and get a Levelstar Icon. tiff in case you dont know, that's another piece of abandonware, that is a braille notetaker that runs on linuxx.

## Post 86 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Friday, 21-Mar-2014 17:58:36

JH_Radio, I certainly appreciate the help of everyone, no matter what they recommend. But I also express my opinions on touchscreens so we don't waste our time there. In this thread, I am looking not for something ancient, but probably a few years old at most.
Stormwing, you make some very valid points about linux. A few of these I suspected, which is one of the reasons why I have tried to avoid it until now. If there was one that I know would work, with relatively straight forward documentation, I would attempt to use it. Several were suggested in my Linux thread, and there is the Blinux site, which is supposed to contain all sorts of information for blind users. Maybe, I can get a Windows or other handheld, dump the os, and install Linux in its place. It all depends on how complicated all of this will be. But some blind people do use it today, so it sounds as if it can be done. Perhaps, though, they're extremely knowledgeable when it comes to technology.
I have heard of the Icon, xand tried searching for one, but none are up on Ebay or Blind Bargains at the moment. I thought it was like the Braille Plus but without the braille component.

## Post 87 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 21-Mar-2014 18:15:33

i haven't used one, but remember it being a cool thing for its time.
2010 wasn't that long ago. i dont think you'll find stuff that new with all the stuff you want.
the things i think you'll have the most trouble with is the ports you are after.
there deffinetly seems to be a general consensus that moddern tech is the way to go. i'll admit i havent' been excited about technoligy this much since the introduction of the PAC Mate. The BraillePlus18 sounded cool until i heard you cannot get a QWERTY keyboard with it, and you cant run elaqueince on it. these windows 8 minni tablits sound like the coolest thing ever to me. in lots of ways, they sound much better than any specialized notetaker. this is my opinion.

## Post 88 by Dolce Eleganza (I'll have the last word, thank you!) on Friday, 21-Mar-2014 19:27:12

but Technology is developing faster than ever before. Yes 2010 might not seem
like so long ago, but things change as fast as time flys. You might want to
consider that. What if you purchase a piece of equipment that you can't repair
in two years, and you spent more than you were willing to spend on something
new that could suit your needs without having to have several machines? I
think it's logical. Old things are great, but older technology is more expensive to
repair, so you'd be spening more money than you really want. Something to
think about.

## Post 89 by Striker (Consider your self warned, i'm creative and offensive like handicap porn.) on Friday, 21-Mar-2014 19:36:56

Yep, and its not like these assistive technology companies keep parts around to
fix tech, after they stop supporting it.

## Post 90 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Friday, 21-Mar-2014 19:39:32

That is a very valid concern, which is why I was considering something mainstream as well. At least with those, I could get parts and/or send them off to be repaired should something really go wrong.

## Post 91 by Dolce Eleganza (I'll have the last word, thank you!) on Friday, 21-Mar-2014 19:45:44

Oh, and I just read your response earlier. There'll be a day when you won't have
a choice but to adapt to touch screens. And you don't know how long these
assistive technology people will last. Especially human ware which is ridiculously
expensive for less features than my apple products. That's all.

## Post 92 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 21-Mar-2014 19:47:19

non-touch bassed pc's are being sold as are keyboards for tablits and phones etc so i'm not sure i agree that touch will rule the world. seems there are optons to me right now anyway.
mainstream is the way to go.

## Post 93 by Striker (Consider your self warned, i'm creative and offensive like handicap porn.) on Saturday, 22-Mar-2014 1:31:08

But she doesn't seem to want a windows tablet because they're out of her price
range, and she doesn't like windows... So why keep pushing that option, and
that option alone? I suppose iOS and android will have some of the same issues
though.
honestly. No solution exists for this that meets all the requirements. None.

## Post 94 by season (the invisible soul) on Saturday, 22-Mar-2014 1:41:23

Well, the best option for you might be a braille note taker, in either case, the BrailleSense U2 or U2 Mini, Braille Plus 18, may able to suits most of your requirement. However, we are talking about something that cost around $3500USD to $5000USD.

## Post 95 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Saturday, 22-Mar-2014 2:09:36

Yes, Stormwing, I would prefer a nonWindows machine. But I would much rather have one of those than an Android or iDevice, so long as I can operate everything with a keyboard. I have also never tried the mobile varients of Windows. So I may like those. But now, my interest is turning to the Knoppix version of Linux, as there is a desktop option specifically for the blind, called Adriane. But even without that, I have heard that various versions of Linux are still accessible. So that may be a viable option, particularly since it doesn't require much power, and I can therefore buy a cheaper handheld to use with it.
PinaColada, those prices are so incredibly far out of my price range that they literally made me laugh out loud. This is why I said that, if I get a notetaker, it must be a slightly older one.

## Post 96 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Saturday, 22-Mar-2014 7:10:05

and if you get a slightly older one (hell even a newer one from hims inc), you still got the problem of most of them running on windows CE, older browser, some pages not working etc. i have another suggestion for you but i wont bother since its way out of your price range.
James, actually the Dell Venue wouldn't be out of her price rane, but i do agree with you. nothing exist that does what she wants. nothing.
tiff you gotta lower those requirements. gotta budge just a lil bit.
i know of very few people who have talked on linux on this site. you may be really screwed if you try that one and you get stuck. i dont know how many people will be able to help you from this site if you decide to go the linux route.

## Post 97 by starfly (99956) on Saturday, 22-Mar-2014 12:03:00

As I said earlier, you have a device in your back yard persay, its your nexus7 or just buy a motoG for about 150 and you can do OCR with goggles, use cam find, run Skype and much more. So its up to you Tiff, come full circle and leave the old tech behind or get left behind..

## Post 98 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Saturday, 22-Mar-2014 14:06:19

JH_Radio, as I said, only 1 through 4 are absolutely essential. The rest I can do with a regular laptop or desktop. But even there, I can change a few things.
1. I don't need to watch Youtube videos. But the rest relating to the internet is a must.
2. Reading and writing in Greek is not a must, but it is highly desirable, as I do so daily.
3. This should not cause a problem.
4. Again, this should be doable, either with a card or with a flash drive.
starfly, you may be right! I just did some searching, and apparently, Linux can be loaded onto a Nexus 7! They were mostly talking about Ubuntu, but I don't see why Knoppix can't work. That said, it may require sighted assistance to get everything set up. I still want a device with a real keyboard, and intend on getting one, regardless of what operating system I use. But for now, this may work. I'll just get a better case/keyboard combination.

## Post 99 by starfly (99956) on Saturday, 22-Mar-2014 14:30:56

OMG um.. okay Tiff. I do not know what else to say to you. You bock at IOS, then you bock at the largest growing platform yet to date. Just what do you want a OS to do for you?

## Post 100 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Saturday, 22-Mar-2014 14:54:22

I just want a computer that I can use for my daily tasks. I didn't think that was so difficult, especially since I'm willing to do a great many of them on something else. But for daily use, I want portability, reliability, and simplicity.
Oh, and for those who feel that only touchscreens are relevant these days, here's an article, from last month, about Windows 8.1. It explains how Microsoft is bringing back several traditional features to cater to the non touch market. Maybe, it really will be worth it to try this! It's just that I have been using Windows for well over a decade now, and was hoping for a change, particularly something simple and not so graphically-oriented.
http://techcrunch.com/2014/02/23/we-love-touch-but-windows-8-1-update-to-focus-on-non-touch-more-hardware-and-more-focus-on-education-and-enterprise/

## Post 101 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Saturday, 22-Mar-2014 18:02:27

Tiff, i wanna try it.
ok so all of this stuff you can do with your laptop or a netbook type device. why would you go thru all the hassel of tryin to find something else ?
i just read your requirements. so far here is what i got from everybody on this page.
Android: doable
IOS: Doable
Windows 8.1: Doable
Windows CE: no.
Linux: maybe
Simple to do these tasks?
Android: learning curve.
IOS: simple (from what i read, but learning curve
Windows 8.1: Simple
Linux: you got me
tiff, are you aware that most options you've outlined for yourself are far from simple or will have lots of problem spots and your money wil not be well spent?
Everybody is trying to make it simple. as simple as they know how. One good deal with sticking with windows is you already know it, and you wont have to learn a lot of new stuff. I get the feeling that people are tired of trying to help you... not cause they dont wanna help, but just cause well... lol. you are stubbern!

## Post 102 by SilverLightning (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Saturday, 22-Mar-2014 18:07:05

I know its pointless, but I'll point it out anyway. Microsoft has been all but
pointless in the technology market for a while now. Very very little that they've
come out with has been worth the paper it takes to make the money it takes to
buy it. Remember vista? Yeah, that went over really well. Microsoft is basically a
laughing stock of the tech market right now. So I'd take your article with a grain
of salt or six.
This will also be pointless, but I'll point this out too. Tif, the idea of having a
bunch of different pieces of technology that must all come together perfectly in
order for you to use them is the exact polar opposite of simplicity. You know
what is simplicity, me being able to do every task you've mentioned with one
device, and do it simply, and for that device to fit comfortably in my pocket.
That's what you want. But you want it cheaply, and that's your problem. You
aren't going to find good technology for so little money unless you are willing to
go with a touch screen for an I device or an android. But you're not, for some
inexplicable reason. And please don't tell me what that reason is, cuz I don't
think I have any more respect for you to lose at this point.
I look forward to the next time you post a board post complaining about how
the device you decide to get doesn't work, and you want us to fix it. I'll enjoy
watching you ignore everything we tell you. Just like you always do.

## Post 103 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Saturday, 22-Mar-2014 18:21:18

while i disagree with it needing to fit in ones pockit,i do agree that simple means having one device that can do it all.
maybe with a few extra add ons that aren't unreasonable (such as a bluetooth keyboard).
so tiff i have a question.
is this device gonna be something you carry around with you or is it gonna be stationary?
to me it sounds like you have two devices that fit the bill already as it stands. that android tablit (that starfly is willing to help you out with) and the laptop (which a lot others are willing to help you out with.)

## Post 104 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Saturday, 22-Mar-2014 20:43:43

If I wanted something stationary, I would get a desktop. Believe it or not, I found a dream machine here, and it's not even that old! It can run Windows, DOS, and Linux, and has every kind of port, slot, drive, and connection that I could possibly imagine or desire in a full computing solution! Plus, it has a very fast processor, a huge hard drive, and lots of ram! If nothing else, I see one of these in my immediate future, to replace my current desktop, which is at least a decade old, and most likely a bit older.
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/ca/en/sm/WF04a/12132708-12132884-12132884-12132884-12736054.html?dnr=2
I could also get a laptop to serve as a desktop replacement, but after seeing that, I don't know why I would. I wouldn't mind a printer and/or embosser and a flatbed scanner as accessories. But for this thread, I was seeking something smaller than a laptop, and with the expectation that it would do far less than one. Think of it as a netbook, only built far better and with a smaller form factor. I wasn't expecting all of the ports and connections, nor the various disk and cd drives to be built-in as they would on a larger machine. I want something that I can easily carry around with me to surf the net, send e-mail, listen to my mp3s, and write and read my txt and rtf files. If it happens to have a camera built-in, so that I can do ocr, that's an extra. But I already have an Android with a usb keyboard/case combination. I don't want to carry around a blue tooth one. Plus, I can't check the remaining battery, so when it dies, I can't use my device. I have one for my Android, and it's decent, but full-size, though it seems to be missing some very important keys.
As for switching my operating system, I just want to see what else is out there. If this Windows 8.1 proves better than 7, I'll be glad. But if there is another system out there that is simple to use, doesn't cost a fortune to use with various hardware and software, and is reliable, I want to try it.

## Post 105 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Saturday, 22-Mar-2014 21:03:46

Apparently, I'm not the only one who doesn't like touchscreens and who is looking for a device with a real keyboard. This is very recent. Unfortunately, the author is using Verizon, so the suggestions didn't include unlocked phones, and of course, no nonphone devices, since that would miss the point of the question. At any rate, what is a thumb keyboard and how small are those keys. For those who have used one, do they mean as small as the ones on the Language Master or slightly larger?
http://ask.metafilter.com/258581/Smart-phones-with-a-physical-keyboard

## Post 106 by Striker (Consider your self warned, i'm creative and offensive like handicap porn.) on Saturday, 22-Mar-2014 21:19:54

firstly, their is no logical reason for you as a blind person to get rid of android
on the nexus in favor of linux for several reasons.
1. You have no idea if the binaries for accessibility run on that compiled version
of linux for android. considering the screen readers I know of on linux are
compiled to run on either x86 or x64, i'm saying now this is extremely unlikely.
2. even assuming you find a screen reader for linux that will run on ARM, its
probably not touch optimized to actually work with the touch screen.
considering you don't know how well keyboard support is integrated in to these
arm versions of linux, you can't just assume that you won't ever have to fall
back on the touch screen.
3. you're going to need a sighted person with a lot of linux experience to set up
your machine with all the packages you need for access, flash the android
tablet, etc. Oh, and troubleshoot the problems. Because this even assuming you
had all the pieces isn't going to be a walk in the park.
Its just not logical or practical to do this, because again, not to be rude, but the
packages are not there, and you won't have anyone experienced around to
basically do this for you.
then you've got the linux learning curve to deal with. There are users on this
sight that can help with some of that, but they've never worked with linux on
arm. So again, they probably won't be able to troubleshoot everything.
If you really don't like the android tab, sell it. I'd consider buying it for a
reasonable price.
Well, the desktop you linked us too is old, and slow by 2014 standards, but if its
a worthy upgrade for you, why not? It probably is an upgrade compared to
anything else you have, but still.
Blah processor, blah ram speed, sure, it has ports. but its not small.

## Post 107 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Saturday, 22-Mar-2014 21:37:41

Thanks for explaining that. So much for Linux on Android. If anything, I'll either put it on a laptop or on some kind of handheld. It sounds like it would cause me many headaches, and may not even work! So I'm glad that you talked me out of that.
I've never had a processor running at 3gb, and while I now have a machine with 4gb of ram, that's still plenty for me. An 80gb hard drive is also large enough to meet my needs. As for being small, it's a desktop, so I wouldn't expect to take it out with me. That's a stationary option. *smile* But it would be nice if it's not so large that it must be placed on the floor.

## Post 108 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Saturday, 22-Mar-2014 21:45:05

I meant to say 3ghz, not 3gb.

## Post 109 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Saturday, 22-Mar-2014 22:54:09

eh. the P4 HT isn't so bad at the highest GHZ or better. i wouldn't go any lower in the processor. 4Gb is good for ram. 2 GB can r work. i didn't see a price on this thing.

## Post 110 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Saturday, 22-Mar-2014 22:58:21

I think my Elitebook is 2.somethingghz, with an i7 processor. It works fine for me. Even my single core Pavilian, at 2.66ghz was good. Anyway, this is just the specification page from HP. I've seen some of these on Ebay, and if I remember correctly, they were under $200. Certainly, if I was running Knoppix, I wouldn't anything nearly this powerful. But I love the extras and all the built-in features of this desktop. At least I solved that problem! *smile*

## Post 111 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Saturday, 22-Mar-2014 23:02:58

yeah i hope it is under $200. cause it aint worth it if it is more.
2GB isn't a lot to work with, i dont hink. not anymore.
i remember when i upgraded this laptop to 4GB from 2GB and man what a difference.
Remember all windows versions suggest at least 1GB, so like everything the processor and ram requirements are going up up up.

## Post 112 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Saturday, 22-Mar-2014 23:15:06

Well, this can handle a maximum of 4gb, which is good.

## Post 113 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Saturday, 22-Mar-2014 23:17:52

yeah. i think tha'ts good too.
this is a 32-bit mother board though. nothing is 32-bit these days. wel almost nothing. certainly nothing when it comes to dekstop and laptop.

## Post 114 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Saturday, 22-Mar-2014 23:20:03

That doesn't bother me. It has all the things that I want in it. If I got fussy at this stage, it would be ridiculous. I could have one custom-made, but I'm sure that would cost a good amount of money.

## Post 115 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Saturday, 22-Mar-2014 23:22:20

if you maxed the hell out of it, you wouldnt' be in such bad shape.especially max the hell out of the ram and processor.

## Post 116 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Saturday, 22-Mar-2014 23:26:40

It all depends on what operating system/s I put on it. Like I said, DOS and Linux don't need that much memory, storage, or speed, and XP would do well with this setup. But 7 and 8.1 probably need more.

## Post 117 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Saturday, 22-Mar-2014 23:29:32

7 and 8.1 will work ok with 4 GB .
if your gonna spend money on something like that, might as well spend it on something and get as m much as you can, so you dont have to spend another few hundred dollars years from now.

## Post 118 by Striker (Consider your self warned, i'm creative and offensive like handicap porn.) on Saturday, 22-Mar-2014 23:46:59

Don't install XP. honestly, don't Use XP after july.
its one of the worlds most popular operating systems. As a result, as soon as
microsoft stops supporting it, everyone is going to start releasing their exploits
for it.
You running XP will be a prime target for hackers.

## Post 119 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Saturday, 22-Mar-2014 23:49:45

yeah, e especially after July of next y year.
you can use anti-virous ppackages that will continue to support XP, butg that will only last so long.

## Post 120 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Sunday, 23-Mar-2014 17:08:21

July of next year or this? I thought supports for XP were stopping next month. Maybe, that's just for udpates.

## Post 121 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 23-Mar-2014 17:14:04

the last sacurety update is being released for Windows XP on April 8th, 2014.
Microsoft will continue to provide updates for its Security Essentials deffinitions , and will continue to release updates for its Malicious Software Removal Tool until July of 2015. (i dont remember the exact date)

## Post 122 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Sunday, 23-Mar-2014 17:27:34

Ah. So I still have a year in which I can use my other computers, and after awhile, the drive to attack them should die down. This is a good thing.
At any rate, here is something extremely modern which fascinates me! I wonder how much something like this would cost?
http://www.cnet.com/news/a-keyboard-that-rises-up-from-flat-touch-screens/
Also, I had asked a few questions about iOs some time ago. It was said that I could use it without ever having to use the touchscreen. But do the accessories still cost an extraordinary amount of money as compared to ones for Windows machine, as they do with OSX? Also, will I still get duplicate files if I transfer things over to a Windows machine? Has the issue with interaction been resolved or must I still interact with things as with Snow Leopard?
Finally, can the Android be used with just the keyboard? If so, how do I enable this function?

## Post 123 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 23-Mar-2014 17:35:18

you co c could continue to use them after July 2015, but at that point you had better get somethnig like avast, AVG etc.
that will be the only protection you'll have. after the 8th of April, if there is any holes found in the operating system, microsoft will not release anything to fix them. so your only lines of defense are SE and the Malicious Software Removal Tool. after July of 2015 (when those updates stop), your only line of defense will be a different anti virus or spyware package such as AVG, etc.
Keep all this in mind, if you plann to continue to use Windows XP with an internet connection. BTW, you might wanna consider that at some point things such as NVDA, the latest version of Winamp etc will not be releasing software that will work on Windows XP. also it'll be damn hard to find new 32-bit boxes (if not impossible. i think a are already impossible to find already. Everything is 64-bit boxes and drivers now.

## Post 124 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Sunday, 23-Mar-2014 17:45:54

I already have difficulty finding truly accessible antivirus! Even Microsoft Security Essentials isn't fully accessible. Neither, from what I remember, are AVG or Avast. I actually bought something called PCMatic, but heard mixed reviews of it. Again, it's not fully accessible, but it seems to work.
As for machines, Ebay is full of them, so I'm not concerned there. But I might try this 8.1, when the spring release comes out for nontouch devices. I need to see how it's different from 7 and what traditional features are being readded to the operating system.

## Post 125 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 23-Mar-2014 17:54:24

you are the only person to say "Even Microsoft Security Essentials isn't fully accessible." i've never known anyone to have problems with it. it is one of the simplest , easiest, and most straight forward pieces of software i've ever had the pleasure of using. i'm coming from a Jaws user though so your milage may varry. but i'm surprised that you find it to have any trouble spots at all. whare do you have difficulty with it?
the spring update comes out on april 8th 2014, tiff. Windows 8.1 update 1 has already been RTM, so those devices will come out on April 8th as well.

## Post 126 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Sunday, 23-Mar-2014 18:06:49

I can go to home, scan and scan, and choose the type of scan I want to perform, as well as the schedule. But I have no way of getting to results for a particular scan, seeing which files were Quarantined, etc. I also can't access it immediately, as I can with XP. I have to make a shortcut for msseces.exe on the desktop.

## Post 127 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Sunday, 23-Mar-2014 18:11:41

It's worth noting, however, that MSE is what I use on most of my machine, as it's the most accessible.

## Post 128 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 23-Mar-2014 18:14:29

you need to get an NVDA user to help you with this.
if te there are no problems when the scann finishes it'll just tel you the time you started that scann, and i believe it will also say no problems have been found.
i access this stuff by using the jaws curcer.
i never had to Quarantine anything so cant help with that one.

## Post 129 by Striker (Consider your self warned, i'm creative and offensive like handicap porn.) on Sunday, 23-Mar-2014 20:20:25

windows 7 has a search box, its the very first item in the start menu.
You can also use the command windows R to run files and open documents, if
you know where they are.
You are seriously the only person I know of that has issues with MSE though.

## Post 130 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Sunday, 23-Mar-2014 20:42:10

It does have a search box. But many times, it won't display all files, even when I tell it to show more results. I have searched for files, gotten no results, and then, when I went to the folders where I knew them to be, they were there. Thanks for the hint on running software and opening files. It seems that, for software, I can just enter the program name. But for files, i need to enter the full path, and in Windows, those are long and complicated to the point that it's easier to just open the folder inthe usual way. but it does provide a much faster way for getting to programs.

## Post 131 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Sunday, 23-Mar-2014 20:43:54

It just seems to me that the more systems are evolving, the more needlessly complicated they are becoming.

## Post 132 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 23-Mar-2014 21:02:28

i'm not sure that i agree with that one (though i haven't used anything past Windows XP yet.
my thoughts are that it is just different ways to do the same thing.
Think of that search box as an example. I know in windows 7 and 8.1 update 1 you can pin things to the taskbar. i dunno how that works with jaws but this means you can have access to the files and programs you used most. 7 is suppose to have a better way of looking at what's running in your task manager.
another thing i hear is better is the defrag option in 7 (though I use defraggler for hd defragging.

## Post 133 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Sunday, 23-Mar-2014 21:06:27

This is yet another example of fixing things that aren't broken. XP had both notifications and a system tray, as well as an option to pin programs to the start menu and choose how many appeared there. All of these worked correctly. The notifications in 7 are also displayed a bit differently with some kind of overflow and user promoted ones. I don't understand the need for any of that.

## Post 134 by starfly (99956) on Sunday, 23-Mar-2014 22:32:57

You can use your android with a keyboard but in web views you must use the screen. IN firefox this is not such the case at all. Also, tiff talkback accessible editer is quite accessible and is soon to support multiple file formats. You can use IOS with a keyboard and there is no need to interact with tables or lists. This is where OSX and IOS differ when it comes to the way they handle tables and list.

## Post 135 by Striker (Consider your self warned, i'm creative and offensive like handicap porn.) on Monday, 24-Mar-2014 4:22:26

Because UI designers are doing their best to make programs and features more
useful, and usable.
this requires people learn to adapt to the new ways of doing things, rather than
clinging to old technology despite its benefits.
Its really a mindset thing. Are you going to bitch, piss, wine and moan that
things are changing, or are you going to except it and learn to utilize these new
features?
considering you fight so hard to needlessly complicate your life by attempting
to make ancient tech do modern tasks it wasn't designed for, their is some
extreme irony to you complaining about user interface issues.

## Post 136 by Faial (Zone BBS Addict) on Monday, 24-Mar-2014 6:32:40

I just would like to point out that when you use a touch screen device connected to a bluetooth keyboard, it becomes a non touch screen device.
Of course it is the same but you never touch it so why complaining about a touch screen if you can use it without touching it.
You can benefit of all its software and hardware advantages using a keyboard.
I sometimes spend hours on my iPad without touching it. Is it a touch screen? Yes it is, but I use it in the same way I use a computer: with a bluetooth keyboard and I never or rarely need to touch it!

## Post 137 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Monday, 24-Mar-2014 7:47:33

yeah. kinda like that dell venue pro, or the surface pro (with type cover)

## Post 138 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Monday, 24-Mar-2014 11:39:11

Can these use usb keyboards as well, and if so, do they come built into cases?

## Post 139 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Monday, 24-Mar-2014 15:14:30

The Surface Pro, and Pro 2 have USB 3.0 ports, so yes you could use a USB keyboard with that.
The Dell has a micro USB, so you'd need to get an addaptor. the Micro USB is also its charging port, but there is also an addaptor that you can use it to charge the device, while useing a USB keyboard as well.
I know the IDevices have what's called a lightening connector. Its a proprietary apple connector. you cannot change the battery's in IPhones either. I know you weren't really looking to get one of those, but thought i should point those things out just in case. I dont know if they can be made to work with USB, or if you can use any sort of an addaptor with that.

## Post 140 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Monday, 24-Mar-2014 15:51:22

Thanks for explaining. Yes, one of the things that I hate about Apple is that everything for their devices is overpriced, and many things are proprietary. So even if I wanted to get one, due to the fact that I now know that I can get away with strictly using the keyboard, those two factors might still turn me off. I like to use as few connections as possible. Less things break that way, and when they're built-in, you don't have to carry extras, stop what you're doing to look for and connect something, make sure you have the cords, etc. Obviously, with a small device, you won't have all of these media drives, ports, etc. But a keyboard, at the very least, should be standard! I'm not getting something that's a few inches, so it could easily hold one.

## Post 141 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Monday, 24-Mar-2014 15:56:54

well if you stored everything you ever wanted in the cloud, and used a bluetooth keyboard , you could get away with less connections.
i tend to love Sendspace myself.
i know i know i know, you cant tell when a bluetooth keyboard is dieing etc. right now i have a wireless USB keyboard that i am typing on, it is battery operated. takes two AA batteries. do you know how long that thing is slated to last? 3 years! i'm not worried about not havine AA's on me.
This is a p standard size, b bigger keyboard. they have much much smaller ones with smaller keys etc.

## Post 142 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Monday, 24-Mar-2014 16:03:04

Wow! I'm used to battery-operated things lasting awhile, but the only thing I have that can go that long without batteries is my talking clock from 1994 or so! I must say. I'm impressed. No cloud for me. I would never trust my information to be stored online, except for music, bookmarks, and truly unimportant things.

## Post 143 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Monday, 24-Mar-2014 16:05:10

well i to took these batteries out and used them in a cassette walkman for about 7 hour o or so and wn when i g got back put them in the keybaord. its still going.

## Post 144 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Monday, 24-Mar-2014 16:48:40

Save yourself the effort and look for an old XT computer. Built like a tank, weighs about 40 pounds, and runs all the glorious old tech. And, should you need to do so, it could make quite the offensive weapon if you were to clock someone over the head with it. And it would probably still work afterwards.

## Post 145 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Monday, 24-Mar-2014 16:54:56

you could get something like this...
use the Upgrade option to upgrade the optical drive to a DVDRW, the ram to 4GB, he has other items too.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/330957479207?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_1729wt_842
or this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Dell-Optiplex-GX620-3-0GHz-Pentium/dp/B006X1CYY0/ref=sr_1_6?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1394086190&sr=1-6&keywords=Desktop+Windows+XP+Home

## Post 146 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Monday, 24-Mar-2014 19:37:49

The prices on the Dells are fantastic. The one on Amazon nearly had me speechless! But they're missing ps/2, parallel, serial, pci and/or scsi, and floppy. While I don't require these on a laptop or handheld, I do on a desktop, with the exception of the pci/scsi (I don't have anything for those anyway) and possibly the floppy. But the whole point of a desktop, (or even a laptop serving as a full desktop replacement) for me is to be able to use it for printing, scanning, backing up all of my files (just incase my cards and/or drives decide to crash), and using as a backup incase one of my portables needs repairing. , I would like it to sit on the desk and to have my connected to it at all times, so I can quickly and easily do my work. My favourite form factor is called, I believe, a mini tower. It's a long, narrow rectangle that fits comfortably on a desk. It's also much better than the huge computers that sit on the floor, like my current XP desktop. But one of the flat desktops is also fine. At any rate, if I can't find anything better as far as features, I might get one of these. The speed is incredible, and as I said, there's no way that I can complain about the prices. This doesn't solve my pda issues, but it definitely might fix my desktop ones. *smile*
I knew of both the XT and the AT, but not their specifications. When I looked up the XT, even I had to laugh! You finally! found a DOS machine that's too old for me! 286 processor? Goodness!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Personal_Computer_XT
The AT is also too old.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Personal_Computer_AT
I might go with an Aptiva, but would need to check its specs if I wanted one for DOS, unless I just got in through 95.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Aptiva
When I was 13, in 1996, my parents bought one of these, with Windows 95 on it. It was the first Windows computer that I ever used. I remember it came with the operating system disks (which no one provides now), recovery disks, and some games, including Silent Steel, which I liked playing with my family. It was the flat kind, with the screen mounted just above the desktop.
It was also around 1996-8 that I had a real DOS machine. A friend of the family had died, and knowing that she had this, I asked for it. It was definitely a floor model, and a 386, with MS-DOS 5.0 on it. But I didn't care. I was happy. I plugged my Braille Lite 2000 into the serial port, installed VocalEyes and was ready to go. This is long before I used the internet, but even then, DOS was considered obsolete, and no one would teach me. Thankfully, I had a tape of DOS for Dummies, from the New Jersey Commission for the Blind. Every day, I would come home from school, and do my homework in WordPerfect 5.1. I would save as txt, so that everyone could read the files. Only grudgingly would I go to the Aptiva, oddly enough, because I didn't like the keyboard. It was too mushy. Of course, I didn't know that I could simply switch to the one from the DOS machine. But I also loved the commandline and trying out things that I read in the book. Then, one day, the machine died. No matter what I did, I couldn't get it to work. I literally cried. Fastforward to 2002, maybe slightly earlier. I now had two KeyNote Gold laptops from The Commission. I actually took all of their DOS things, since they didn't want them. This is also when I first heard of the Companion, though they were all out of those. This machine used MS-DOS 6.21 and had KeySoft on it, as well as Wordperfect 5.1, but with the Office Suite, so that LetterPerfect was also included. I used it for awhile, but no longer had the Dummies book. Soon, I got caught up in schoolwork. Then, I went to college. I actually lost the cable to the VoiceCard, and it took me seven years to find it! Now, I'm ready to start my abandoned quest, to learn MS-DOS. But I need a machine with full capabilities, as I wish to learn some programming and also try going on the internet.

## Post 147 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Monday, 24-Mar-2014 19:51:16

well with 8 USB ports, surely you could spair one for connected things that you wanna use.
personally, i wouldn't buy either of these boxes, but somebody i know of is looking for something and is very very limited in what she can afford. so i did a little research. you might have to get an older box and put some stuff in USB slots, like it or not .
i stil think you are asking for the impossible here.
older computers are pretty easy to find so you might find something.
i'm seeing computers that are new that are $350 or so. its a pretty crouded market.
at least with the items i put there for you to look at, it could be upgraded to windows 7 and work if you ever wanted too. i'd go with the one from ebay if i had no other option and just had to have this older hardware .
tiff... i think you are waisting your money and going around in cercles personally, though i'll do my best to help anyway.
why do you want to learn dos? what is the purpis? or is it you just wanna learn it for the hell of it? you soun so excited. maybe its just your thing. if so ain't nothin wrong with that. everybody has their things. smile

## Post 148 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Monday, 24-Mar-2014 21:04:50

Yes, I could do this. But like I said, with a desktop, it would be best if everything was built-in, so that I didn't have to buy extra cables, connect things, etc.
As for learning DOS, this something I have wanted to do since I was a child. I also had (and still have) an interesting in learning the Apple IIGS, though that really is a hobby. At any rate, I prefer the commandline and/or the text user interface. In the first case, I find DOS commands to be intuitive, and understandable. They are also extremely simple, allowing me to get things done quickly. In the second, while there are menus, they are clean, without any graphical nonsense, easy to navigate and accessible with screen readers. I can't speak for Linux, as I have never used any of its varients or interfaces.

## Post 149 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Monday, 24-Mar-2014 21:10:03

i'm not sure your gonna find anything like you want.
i guess you could grab that HP specs you posted somewhare and see what you can find on ebay.

## Post 150 by starfly (99956) on Monday, 24-Mar-2014 21:16:03

look on blind bargons, there is a deal or was a deal around 250 for a current computer.

## Post 151 by SilverLightning (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Monday, 24-Mar-2014 22:24:29

I can't remember the last model of computer that came out with a floppy
drive installed. They haven't used those things since the nineties. We have
these things called memories now. Before those we had things called discs, not
floppy discs. That's like asking for a car with cable brakes. They don't use them
anymore.
And really Tif, you're afraid of storing your files online? Do you not realize that
in order to lose those files you'd literally have to shut down the internet? Hard
drives can crash, floppy discs can definitely crash. The internet is not going to
crash. Plus, you can get that file from anywhere. I can literally put a file on my
cloud from my computer. Go to Russia. Find an internet connection, and get that
file on my phone from Moscow if I wanted to. I don't have to worry about
forgetting files anymore.
I know all this newfangled technology us young whipper snappers are going
around with is all complicated these days. What with our inter-tubes and the
tweeter thing and that book of faces gismo. But really Tif, the robots aren't
going to take over your mind if you use a piece of technology from this century.
I promise. You'll live.

## Post 152 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Monday, 24-Mar-2014 22:31:36

that reminds me. i have a floppy in one of my beys. it was from a computer built in 1998, i think. i ported it as i got newer hardware over the years. it still works but i dont remember the last time i used it.
something else in addition to silvers post.
are you aware the cloud has what's called redundancy? this means say one of there hard drives crashes. they have it stored on many servers and in a lot of locations. they have encryption. nobody has access to your data except you.
i have all of my laptop data on CrashPlan as of now, and may get Carbinite for my other box.

## Post 153 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Tuesday, 25-Mar-2014 0:12:59

The floppy, as I said, is not strictly necessary. I don't usually use them either, though it's good to have one for booting, incase something goes wrong or incase I want to try another operating system. The ports, modem connection, and cd rom are another matter. This is a desktop, and as such, I expect it to have certain things that may or may not be available on a laptop, and some which definitely won't be built into a handheld.
I usually have my files on at least two or three machines at a time, plus a compact flash card, and now, I have the essentials on a flash drive. I'm not worried about losing them any time soon. But I must save the master copy, with all, and not just my daily files, to a more secure location, instead of just my desktop. I will be doing so this week, as I just found a 32gb drive for $14 and free shipping.
At any rate, I went to Blind Bargains and saw an item of interest, given our current discussion. I will post it here, incase it's sold out by the time you go to the link.
http://www.blindbargains.com/classifieds.php?m=1653
"I also have an Acer Iconia W3 tablet. This tablet runs the full version of Windows 8. It has an 8.1 inch display, an Intel Atom dual core processor clocked at 1.8 GHZ, 2 gigs of RAM, and a 32 gig SSD and a micro SD card slot. I will also include the card with the activation code for Microsoft Office 2013. It will be shipped in the original box. I will also include 2 cases. One of which serves as a stand, and the other has a built-in keyboard that connects to the tablet via USB. I am asking $175 for the whole package."
The price is excellent, especially since it comes with two cases, one of which has an external keyboard! but the machine seems to be very low on ram for a modern version of Windows. I know 7 works best with at least 3, and preferably 4gb or more. Does this seem like a good deal, and will it be able to handle 8.1 when it is released? On that note, should I wait until that happens and not bother with 8, if I go this route?

## Post 154 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Tuesday, 25-Mar-2014 0:33:29

first. 8.1 is released. 8.1 update 1 is coming out on april 8th. any mini tablit like this that runs the full version of windows 8 will support 8.1 update 1. i wouldn't get this. first the ram is low. second the processor is a clover trail processor which is the Predecessor to bey trail. from what i've read, if you go with the smaller processors (james. wayne, somebody help me?)
mobile . i think that's the word i want. your clover trail and bey trail are what's called mobile processors. anything before bey trail probably won't be powerful enough (though it beats the addam processors of 2007 by far!)
this is why i suggested that Dell Venue 8 Pro or 11 Pro.
two things you shouldn't skimp on: processor and ram.
you especially shouldn't skimp on ram on a product like this which has non-removable ram. (you dont have ram sticks that can go in this thing. its on-board ram, so what you get is what you are stuck with.)
32GB SSD is small. by the time you get all the updates you might be using a lot of that drive space. considering there may be an 8.1 update 2 in the fall, and considering that part of that drive is used for a recovery partition, i wouldn't suggest you get this.
if you are willing to spend more money on say that dell, you could get the 8 pro and get the one that has the 4GB of ram. remember windows 8 requirements. 1 gig of ram. so just one extra gig isn't gonna be enough. light vidio edeting? with only 2 gigs of ram? i wouldn't do that.
one thing you might consider: the Dell venue 11 Pro. in that you can up the processor to a CoreI5. remember. non-removeable ram on that too. more ram is better , since again you cant add it or swop it out later.this will all help you when you go to do your edits or anything that requires any sort of extra processing power.

## Post 155 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Tuesday, 25-Mar-2014 0:37:37

oh yeah. the processor chip and SSD is probably nonremovable though i'm not sure on that one. but that's my guess.
having an SSD slot wil help you so you can put your documents and thinngs on it. however just the programs you install and updates can take up room faster than you'd think. i'd go w with at least a 64 gig SSD if not 128. remember. windows 8.1 is supported thru January 2023. that's a lot of years for MS to pump out updates and things.

## Post 156 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Tuesday, 25-Mar-2014 0:42:46

I think 11 is probably the largest that I would be willing to go as far as screen size, and I would prefer 9 and under. Otherwise, I may as well just get a netbook or stick with my current laptop. Thanks for explaining the processors. I don't know anything about mobile devices or what they use. It's a shame that Windows takes up so much space that even 32gb isn't large enough! Just to clarify, I don't edit video or audio. I just make avi, mp3, and wav files, and watch/listen to them or others that are on Youtube and/or that I download. Also, none of these things is essential for me in a truly mobile device. Anyway, I'll skip that tablet.

## Post 157 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Tuesday, 25-Mar-2014 0:44:40

Usually, I would prefer a 60 or 80gb hard drive for Windows anyway. As for sd, I suppose it's okay when it's in the machine. But those things are too small and get lost easily.

## Post 158 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Tuesday, 25-Mar-2014 0:50:08

well, they are making the new update 1 so that you can put it on 16 gig SSD devices ... but i cannot picture that running too well.
The only reason i thought about the 11" size is because you can get a better processor in the 11" tablit than the 8 Pro. however I think the 8 Pro will work well for you. i suggest the moddel with 4GB of ram. i wouldnt go any lower. and this is for myself as a user too.
I believe the 8 pro with 4 gigs of ram has a better processor, and more SSD space too.
any time. i'm glad to help. maybe you wont waste your money after all.
are you considering a netbook? if so post those specs before you by.

## Post 159 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Tuesday, 25-Mar-2014 0:51:22

bwhat is too small and gets lost too easily?

## Post 160 by Striker (Consider your self warned, i'm creative and offensive like handicap porn.) on Tuesday, 25-Mar-2014 17:16:32

Before I had an iPhone, I use SD, micro SD, and other really small form factor
cards frequently.
Never did I lose one. I was careful, took the time to make sure I put things
where I needed them to be, so I could find them again.
This is all part of having a good organization system. If you already have one,
then you've got no excuse not to integrate the newer cards in to it, apart from
these logical fallacies you keep using to justify your choices. If you don't have a
way to store the cards reliably. Create one.
the sad truth is technology is moving on, and you can't fight it.

## Post 161 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Tuesday, 25-Mar-2014 17:20:14

oh you can fight it james, or get older stuff, but she cant expect it to work for everything she wants it to do.

## Post 162 by chelslicious (like it or not, I'm gonna say what I mean. all the time.) on Tuesday, 25-Mar-2014 17:52:49

unfortunately, she'll continue to expect things that won't happen, due to her not wanting to move on with the times, as well as continue to bitch, cause what she wants just isn't possible, when people live in a timewarp, as she always has, from what we've seen, and likely always will. *sigh* and on and on it'll go.

## Post 163 by write away (The Zone's Blunt Object) on Tuesday, 25-Mar-2014 18:08:18

Tif, I'm about as prone to losing things as a nun is to wearing a habit. Yet when I used SD cards, never did I lose one. I was just extra careful to keep track of them. They don't have to be an issue with a little effort.

## Post 164 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Tuesday, 25-Mar-2014 18:16:55

Lol I am a absentminded fool, and The Chick semifrequently chides me that if I would put things away, or follow her organization patterns, I would not lose them. But there are several things I never lose track of, you see: Memory cards, liquor, cigars ... so if I can keep track o' mine, you surely can yours.

## Post 165 by forereel (Just posting.) on Tuesday, 25-Mar-2014 18:33:31

You actually can have a newer machine built with a floppy drive. We put a serial port in a new machine as well, and this machine runs windows 7.
The reason for that port was or I should say, is, to support a mixing board Delta 66 a friend of mine uses.
We installed new drivers for the sound card, and it works.
I saw a complete refurbished Dell desktop for 218 this morning. All you'd need do is have a serial port and a floppy drive installed in the bays. About $50.
Newer desktops are small form factor, so not large at all, but you'll want a tower with enough front slots.
We've talked about Dos a really long time ago, and I was correct, you didn't make that go. Dos was difficult for the blind when it was new, so it is going to be almost empossible now no body is supporting it.
For smaller storage units you could use USB cards. They've got some really small ones now, as to saize, and you can buy 64GB for around 30 dollars a pop, sometimes cheaper.
Even portable hard drives are small enough to put in your purse.
There you go.

## Post 166 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Tuesday, 25-Mar-2014 18:34:51

you might wanna check out PCLliquidations.com
this stuff is pretty old but there may be something here for you.

## Post 167 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Tuesday, 25-Mar-2014 18:36:54

WB has thees wha'ts called ultra portible external drives. i haven't seen them but something like that or slim external might be what wayne iis refering too.

## Post 168 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Tuesday, 25-Mar-2014 20:37:51

DOS is already installed on that machine. We just need one or two drivers and I'll be ready to go. But my friend who is doing this is a newby with it all, and our acquaintance had various personal issues that she needed to sort out. But they plan on getting back to it very soon.
I am using one of the usb sticks from Sandisk and it works well. It's also not tiny but not huge, which I like.

## Post 169 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Monday, 31-Mar-2014 18:51:38

It was suggested to me that I try Samnet and System
Access. I am doing so and though I will probably keep NVDA as my main screen reader, am loving this so far. Everything I want is at my fingertips, and I only need to return to Windows for a few things. The only bad thing is that I must be online to use Samnet. In any case, while I am still interested in trying Knoppix, since my Windows problem seems to be solved for the moment, I am, once again, returning to the idea od a small computer.
I was looking at my Nexus 7 in its case today, and this is the perfect size for what I am seeking. Does anyone make a small computer with that kind of form factor, but where the screen is the lid, and under it is a normal keyboard of the same size? Not in a case, but built into the machine, like a laptop. Should I be looking for netbooks? I did once own an 8.9 inch one, but that's still larger than my Nexus.

## Post 170 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Monday, 31-Mar-2014 18:57:10

hmm tiff, you like things built like tanks...
http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x131e-intel/?sb=:00000025:00003410:
i'm considering getting this for a travel device....

## Post 171 by forereel (Just posting.) on Monday, 31-Mar-2014 19:01:08

Lots of complete and even really powerful small laptop computers.
Altra books is what they are called.

## Post 172 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Monday, 31-Mar-2014 19:02:38

Ultrabooks can be had cheaper than $1000 too.
i'm considering an ultrabook.

## Post 173 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Tuesday, 01-Apr-2014 16:24:10

If I really wanted a tank, I would get a Toughbook.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toughbook
The older ones were built to military specifications.
That, or an Itronix. They no longer make them, apparently, but they stopped very recently. I have one of theirs for DOS, and it's the most rugged thing I've ever seen!
http://www.gd-itronix.com/
All of those are way out of my price range, but it's fun reading about them.

## Post 174 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Tuesday, 01-Apr-2014 16:33:26

Toughbooks are more money than I wanna spend. I hear the thinkpad line of products are good. i'll check out the Itronix

## Post 175 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Tuesday, 01-Apr-2014 16:33:47

Toughbooks are more money than I wanna spend. I hear the thinkpad line of products are good. i'll check out the Itronix

## Post 176 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Tuesday, 01-Apr-2014 16:43:02

Toughbooks
ou can find older toughbooks and spec them out how you'd like there if you wanted too.
but tiff why have a Toughbook? when i say built like a tank, i don't mean built like a tank as in "Let me drop it from an 8 story roopnhtop and see what happens..." lol i mean more like if it gets bumped around the hard drive wont crash. i know what i may have meant to say. r r ruggid . maybe that's a better word for the stuff i'm talkin about.

## Post 177 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Tuesday, 01-Apr-2014 16:57:49

When I think rugged, I think military grade, with everything rubberised, etc.
As for the Thinkpad, I own an X31, which is probably dead.
http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/product-and-parts/detail.page?LegacyDocID=MIGR-58212
and an X60, which just needs a new keyboard and fan.
http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/product-and-parts/detail.page?DocID=PD010033
If I were to get another one, it would probably be the X61.
http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/detail.page?LegacyDocID=MIGR-67778
My latest computer is an HP Elitebook 2540P, which is fairly decent and slightly rugged in your sense of the word, since the lid is aluminium and I think it has drive shocks. It also has drains for the keyboard to prevent it from shorting out incase of a spill. That was one of its selling points with me. The only things I don't like about it are the touch strip at the top (Thinkpads have nice buttons for volume and mute, and a switch for wireless) and the fact that it has a combination microphone/headphone jack. Anyway, you may want to look for one. Mine was under $300 on Ebay.
http://h20566.www2.hp.com/portal/site/hpsc/template.PAGE/public/kb/docDisplay?javax.portlet.begCacheTok=com.vignette.cachetoken&javax.portlet.endCacheTok=com.vignette.cachetoken&javax.portlet.prp_ba847bafb2a2d782fcbb0710b053ce01=wsrp-navigationalState%3DdocId%253Demr_na-c02068853-1%257CdocLocale%253D%257CcalledBy%253D&javax.portlet.tpst=ba847bafb2a2d782fcbb0710b053ce01&ac.admitted=1396385085126.876444892.199480143
But all of these are full-sized laptops, not handhelds of any kind. If I was going to get one of those again, I would want something that has almost everything, like my HP Pavilion Ze5385us, though with bettr ram and upgraded wireless. I would say a faster processor, but it always seemed to work fast for me. The only problems I have with that machine are that it gets really hot and that it needs a new power jack. It's also quite large and heavy, but as a desktop replacement, that's to be expected.
http://h20566.www2.hp.com/portal/site/hpsc/template.PAGE/public/kb/docDisplay?javax.portlet.begCacheTok=com.vignette.cachetoken&javax.portlet.endCacheTok=com.vignette.cachetoken&javax.portlet.prp_ba847bafb2a2d782fcbb0710b053ce01=wsrp-navigationalState%3DdocId%253Demr_na-c00248706-1%257CdocLocale%253D%257CcalledBy%253D&javax.portlet.tpst=ba847bafb2a2d782fcbb0710b053ce01&ac.admitted=1396385231964.876444892.199480143

## Post 178 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Tuesday, 01-Apr-2014 17:21:23

ah tiff. hmm.
lol i'm not payin threu the freakin nose for standards that are way beyond what i need.i wouldn't even consider the first thinkpad you had listed.
the second or thir third options only if they were maxed out, and hat's if i was on a very steep budgit.
the Hp i couldn't relly gedt the specs on h that, i didn't understand the hardware specs... they didn't seem to honestly list th them.

## Post 179 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Tuesday, 01-Apr-2014 18:02:56

If you mean the Elitebook, perhaps this can help.
http://h20565.www2.hp.com/portal/site/hpsc/template.PAGE/public/kb/docDisplay/?spf_p.tpst=kbDocDisplay&spf_p.prp_kbDocDisplay=wsrp-navigationalState%3DdocId%253Demr_na-c02068850-2%257CdocLocale%253Den_US%257CcalledBy%253D&javax.portlet.begCacheTok=com.vignette.cachetoken&javax.portlet.endCacheTok=com.vignette.cachetoken

## Post 180 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Tuesday, 01-Apr-2014 18:23:00

that system is nicer then either of the systems i'm currently using!
that's a nice system there.

## Post 181 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Tuesday, 01-Apr-2014 19:11:56

This is quite an interesting guide. Best of all, it discusses non touch devices!
http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/what-is-the-difference-between-a-netbook-notebook-ultrabook-laptop-and-palmtop/
At only 6 or 7 inches, palmtops seem to meet my size requirements. I will need to compare them to the smaller netbooks. I also want to see which use an x86 processor and if anyone has successfully loaded Knoppix onto one, incase I like that system.
I don't know why everyone keeps saying that netbooks are "impractical for daily use", or that they can only do a few things. When I had mine, I was able to do everything that I do on my regular laptops. I browsed the net, checked e-mail, watched and made videos, and listened to music and made voice recordings. I wasn't using Skype at that time, but I'm fairly certain that would have worked as well. I could also probably have hooked up a scanner and printer and used those, though I would have needed a usb to parallel adapter for the latter. I wonder if I can find a decent one from 7 to 10 inches? I owned two Aspire Ones and both broke, which was why I was so hesitant to get another. But maybe, I'll check out the various keyboard layouts and try another brand.
It seems that ultrabooks are as large as regular laptops, so they don't meet my definition of a handheld. The only real advantage I can see in them is the fast time at boot up. According to this article, the lowest price for one is about $700, and for that, I would only accept a truly portable device, a full laptop to serve as a desktop replacement, or something made for the blind. I had to laugh when they said "just 128gb". That should be plenty for a home user, unless you're a photographer or plan on downloading lots of films as videos and not mp3s.
Anyway, it seems that, if I'm going mainstream, I either want a palmtop or a netbook.

## Post 182 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Tuesday, 01-Apr-2014 19:17:52

It also seems that I should not be looking for apda, as palmtops usually had keyboards whereas PDAs had touchscreens. But as Wikipedia implied, the terms are often misused.
http://www.infoplease.com/encyclopedia/science/palmtop.html

## Post 183 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Tuesday, 01-Apr-2014 21:29:54

the netbook was underpowered cheap crap back when it ruled. now some were better than others and you must have gotten one that was equipt with 2 GB of ram and not 1. seems a lot of them had the intel Adam processor 1.66 GHZ also. i'm not sure you could compare anything to a netbook these days, as everything has changed so much. Perhaps something that might be similar in specs if not better is something with a Bey Trail processor. something such as the Dell Venue 8 pro, Surface 2, or even the Samsung or google android tablits. I'd be interested to hear others opinions on how m netbooks ran. I know a few on the zone has had them. I never owned one personally.

## Post 184 by SilverLightning (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Tuesday, 01-Apr-2014 21:52:11

The reason your netbook did everything you needed it to do was because you
never asked it to do something you couldn't have done with a cell phone. If you
ever asked it to do something more tasking, you'd have figured out quickly why
they were so cheap.
And no, 128 is not enough. I have folders that are bigger than that, just
single folders, let alone drives. Just because your life hasn't progressed past the
Apollo missions, doesn't mean the rest of us are so blessed.

## Post 185 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Wednesday, 02-Apr-2014 11:48:40

128 can be more than enough , depending if you store your content in the cloud , or on external drives, etc.... its all in how you store your stuff.

## Post 186 by forereel (Just posting.) on Wednesday, 02-Apr-2014 12:26:32

I have a Dell 1012 I'm going to sale yesterday.
I've upgraded it to 2 GB momory, and it has 160 GB drive.
Works wonderfully, but the friend I let use it has gotten himself a really laptop finally, so I'll do something with it.
It runs Windows 7 pro even.
It was a project computer I purchased new. I wanted something small and light, then I cranked it up as much as it would go.
Desktop replacements are not big anymore. Sure, they have 17 and 18 inche screens, but they are really light.
Laptops are able to be so powerfully anymore, people don't talk much about desktop replacements, because like the laptop I'm typing this on, these are really good.
This one as a 14 inch monitor, doesn't matter, I'm blind, 6 GB, 750GB drive, and an I3 Intel.
Outran my older desktop easy. Lol
It weighs about 4 pounds and is less then an inch thick.
Go figure.

## Post 187 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Wednesday, 02-Apr-2014 12:55:04

the system you are typing this on is nice wayne.
and its not even an ultrabook!
The specs of my laptop are the following.
1.73 gigahertz Intel Core Duo
Multi-core (2 total)
Not hyper-threaded
4GB ram.
runs very nice.

## Post 188 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Wednesday, 02-Apr-2014 13:48:43

When I say desktop replacement, I mean just that. It would be a laptop that either stays in one place, with various things connected to it, or that is moved very little. As such, I would want to make as few sacrifices as possible, so that I wouldn't have to deal with usb adapters and hubs everywhere. It should have most things already built into it, so that I could just connect my devices. A truly portable machine wouldn't need all of that, because I would be using it for normal daily tasks, like surfing the net, writing in Wordpad, etc. The laptop that I have now is a mixture. It has most of the features of a desktop and is still quite portable. But it's not something that I could just grab and put under my arm or hold in my hand. Of course, I could get a laptop bag for it and put it on my shoulder, but after awhile, it would get a bit heavy. Comparing this to even my 10 inch netbook, let alone a 7 or 8 inch, I can easily tell the difference.

## Post 189 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Wednesday, 02-Apr-2014 13:52:04

for older stuff you might have no choice but to get USB adaptor to yadayadayada to make it work. or an older system for the desktop replacement.

## Post 190 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Wednesday, 02-Apr-2014 13:57:11

That, or just get a full-blown desktop. *smile*

## Post 191 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Wednesday, 02-Apr-2014 14:00:02

smile.
if you go with your full blown, it'll be cheaper.

## Post 192 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Sunday, 27-Apr-2014 15:43:48

On another forum, someone suggested, as many here have done, that I try an iPad Mini. Just to clarify a few things. I have heard that I can use IOS with just the keyboard. Is this true? That would be good, as I could then avoid the touchscreen. But does it still rely on interacting as does the Mac? Admittedly, I started with Leopard and only upgraded to Snow Leopard (my Macbook could only upgrade to Lion anyway). But this is one of the reasons why I stopped using it. The constant interaction drove me mad! It's also worth considering this article. The author is talking about OSX, but are his complaints still valid for IOS? Note that while I am a fluent braille reader/writer, I don't have a braille display, so that portion wouldn't relate to me.
http://www.marcozehe.de/2014/02/07/switching-back-to-windows/

## Post 193 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Sunday, 27-Apr-2014 15:45:12

I am still very much interested in Knoppix, and am going to see if I can try it, as it seems like a viable system. But recently, someone recommended that I try a Chromebook. Has anyone here worked with one? I disregarded it, because I thought that the entire system ran on the cloud, and I refuse to save my files there, except for my bookmarks for a browser. But it seems that I can use a flash drive with it as well. Hopefully, my new Sandisk Cruzer Fit will work. Assuming that this is true, I have a few questions.
1. Can I use keyboard navigation, without the need for a touchscreen?
2. Do I have to interact with things as I would on a Mac?
3. Does it come with programs such as a wordprocessor, mp3 player and/or recorder? and calculator? Can I watch and listen to and/or make videos and audio on it? The last two are not as important as the first four.
4. Can I use the Chromebook if it's not connected to the internet? For example, to listen to music or read/write text files?
5. Can it handle Greek, and can I change synthesizers?
I found this article, which seemed to answer some of my questions.
http://www.afb.org/afbpress/pub.asp?DocID=aw140502
Apparently, I would need to use Google Docs to access and to create documents, which already sounds like a bad thing. But the above article is almost a year old, so maybe, an offline wordprocessing app has been developed by now. But there still appear to be other accessibility issues. Can anyone confirm or dispute them?

## Post 194 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 27-Apr-2014 15:53:48

chromebooks are only usable online as far as I know . it is running the chrome OS. anything you do you need to do online. I know of something called chromevox but don't know what it is or how it works.

## Post 195 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Sunday, 27-Apr-2014 18:49:57

From what I can gather, Chromevox is the name of the built-in screen reader.

## Post 196 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 27-Apr-2014 21:37:19

oh ok. I thought it was just the extention/screene reader just for the Chrome browser. I didn't say that as I wasn't sure and didn't wanna lead you wrong

## Post 197 by Ed_G (Zone BBS is my Life) on Monday, 28-Apr-2014 15:23:05

There is an article in the Chromebook help section of the Google website that
explains what can be done offline with a Chromebook. I imagine you'll also find
the latest on accessibility there too.

## Post 198 by starfly (99956) on Tuesday, 29-Apr-2014 21:39:10

I will help with IOS, you do not have to interact like you do on the mac and yes you can use the keyboard to navigate and use IOS. I will play the devels avacate here, what if you wake-up one day and want to use TapTapSee?? Are you seriously going to bust out your BT keyboard and Then hold the IOS device it and use a BT keyboard to navigate to take picture? Food for thought, not all IOS apps make it practical to use the keyboard all the time. I am sorry this is the last advice Tiff I plan to give you because your distaste for touch screens drive me crazy. Its one thing to know an OS its another thing to have a person like you come along and dabil with out really taking the time to learn it.

## Post 199 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Wednesday, 30-Apr-2014 22:51:59

I already wasted money on an android which I don't like that much. I don't want to make the same mistake with Apple, and buy it because I've heard great things about it, only to be discouraged in the end. I think I'll stick with something sensible that has some kind of keyboard. Thanks for answering my questions.

## Post 200 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Wednesday, 30-Apr-2014 22:53:20

i don't see myself ever bying apple either tiff.

## Post 201 by hardyboy09 (I'm going for the prolific poster awards!) on Thursday, 01-May-2014 8:00:09

Hi,
I'm a little confused, as to what exactly you are searching for. Do you want a small laptop or a desktop replacement that is also small in size? Since the Microsoft Surface Pro 2 is out of your budget, there are several other systems to look into.
Depending on whether or not you want a desktop replacement that is small, you have a couple of options here:
First, I would recommend a Mac Mini; you don't have to use the Mac side of things really; you can install Windows to it. There is a way to use it without a monitor, so it would be pretty portable for you. Secondly, if you want a desktop that weighs around 2.7 pounds, which can be mounted to the back of a monitor, you could look at the Intel Core I5 Nuc, but note that this is only a barebones system and additional hardware would need to be obtained and installed. If you did go with this configuration, you would have to get an M-Sata SSD, Ram, and the network card for wireless. However, if you still wanted a barebone system, but the ability to add a standard hard drive, you might want to personally look into the Zotac line of barebones. I'm considering one of these for a home theater pc, but this configuration would meet your needs, and when completely configured, would cost around $500.00. Otherwise, if you wanted a small laptop, you could go with one that featured an 11.6 inch display. If you search Amazon, you will find plenty. These are great, because they have at least 4 GB of ram and decent size hard drives. These are not ultrabooks, because they use a regular processor, not a low voltage one, which is why you get the name ultrabook in the first place. I hope this advice helps you. My personal systems are:
1. MacBook Pro 2012:
HDD: 750.00 GB
Ram: 8.00 GB
Processor: Intel Core I7 at 2.9 GHZ
Operating Systems: Windows 8.1 Pro, Mac OSX 10.8 Mountain Lion, need to put Mavericks on it at some point.
2. Lenovo G560-0679
HDD: 250.00 GB Solid State
Ram: 6 GB
Processor: Intel Pentium P6100 at 2.00 GHZ dual core
Operating System: Windows 8.1 Home Premium
Ram: 6.00 GB
3. HP P6530F Desktop PC
Processor: Intel Core I3 at 3.06 GHZ
Ram: 6.00 GB, upgradable to 32 GB
HDD: 1 TB
Built-in wireless
Operating System: Windows 7 home premium

## Post 202 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Thursday, 01-May-2014 10:51:33

Nathon, is the Intel Pentium one of the older models or is that newer?
How does it really stack up with the core processors?

## Post 203 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Thursday, 01-May-2014 17:04:51

I definitely don't want a bare bones system that I would need to have someone configure, find parts for, etc. Originally, I was trying to decide on whether to get either a small laptop or palmtop (under 10 inches) or a notetaker for the blind. I am seeking something small and light that I can easily carry around with me.
Just for the record, for an actual desktop, size wouldn't matter, though I do like the mini towers (small rectangular boxes that fit on desks). But it would need to have everything and skimp on nothing. Serial, parallel, ps/2, usb, 56k modem, ethernet, wireless, floppy and/or superdisk, and cd and/or dvdrw. I could then partition the drive and have Windows, DOS, and Knoppix on it. A laptop serving as a true desktop replacement would need to have a similar configuration, though with the addition of pcmcia, and possibly without the floppy, serial, and ps/2. For a regular laptop to just carry with me, I would only really need pcmcia, usb, wireless, ethernet, and 56k modem. I could use an external cd/dvd drive and a pcmcia to parallel if necessary, unless I could find a truly good usb adapter. I would only install Windows and/or Knoppix on it, though the latter can easily be run from a usb drive.
In any case, unless I got a notetaker, I wouldn't want to go lower than 2gb of ram if I was using Windows, though 4gb would be far better. I highly doubt I would need anything higher than 8gb. Likewise, I wouldn't go lower than a 1.8ghz processor, though 2ghz or higher would be preferred. The exception, of course, would be if I was using a netbook, in which case I probably would just stick with Knoppix. That doesn't require much power or ram, but it does require the use of an i86 processor, so I think netbooks wouldn't be an option. As for a hard drive, anywhere from 60gb to 80gb should be fine. I really wouldn't need more than that, though I would accept 120gb if a smaller drive couldn't be found. Anything larger would be absurd for me, as would be 32gb of ram!.

## Post 204 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Thursday, 01-May-2014 17:06:10

Also, while I may be forced to use Windows 7, I will not use 8 or 8.1. They rely too much on touch, and even with the new improvements, they would probably be different enough from XP and 7 to drive me mad.

## Post 205 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Thursday, 01-May-2014 17:51:03

*drives you mad*
see I don't need windows 8.1 update 1 to drive you mad. grin
ok, I suggest you get 4GD of ram if you go with a laptop.

## Post 206 by hardyboy09 (I'm going for the prolific poster awards!) on Thursday, 01-May-2014 23:25:44

I think the pentium processors are an older model; it runs Windows 8.1 exceptionally well, though when I didn't have the SSD, it was slow.
Okay, so you don't want a barebones system, so that's out of the question. Likewise, if you purchase a laptop that is at all modern, you won't find a dial-up modem on them. Like I suggested earlier, the smallest screen you are going to find on a laptop is definitely a 11.6 inch display, unless you go with a tablet, which is out of your budget. By the way, what is your budget? This will help me know what to suggest. Also, what would you be needing a serial and parallel port for? You won't find these on a modern-day computer either. They were great for running older Braille printers though. If you really needed these ports though, I would recommend both a serial and parallel to USB adapter. I'm still not sure about the modem.

## Post 207 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Friday, 02-May-2014 0:30:37

Actually, my Elitebook 2540P has both dialup and ethernet, and it's only about four-years-old. As far as my budget, I don't want to spend any more than $500, and less is better. I also don't need a brand new machine. Tablets aren't out of my budget, but they use touchscreens. In dOS, the serial would be used mostly for my synthesizer. In Windows, it would be used for Active Sync, which I don't really use anymore, so it's not necessary. The parallel would be used for my printer and embosser, regardless of which operating system/s I installed. I generally find usb to be tempramental, and i prefer things to be built-in. That said, since this is not to be a full desktop replacement, those two are not necessary. But a modem is, and it would be used, in Windows, for my Toast.net account, which I use when the Fios goes out, and which I would want to use in DOS, if I couldn't get a wireless card to work. It all depends on what system I use. I'm sure I can use wireless with Knoppix, but I don't know about dialup.

## Post 208 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 02-May-2014 5:41:41

Hey tiff may I have your help with something?
didn't you say there was some sort of package that you got a USB modom and got 4GLTE broadband?
I thought you said something about having something that you could get a certain amount of data, and it wouldn't expire.
once that ran out you could purchase another block.
What company is that again and who's network does it run off of?

## Post 209 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 02-May-2014 5:43:35

I was curious what you thought of the new Pentium processors?
what about ANB??

## Post 210 by dallas cowboy fanc (Veteran Zoner) on Friday, 02-May-2014 7:04:53

You have win 7. It is ok. Dell 4 gig memory costs 50 but you have to press hard on ur
new dell to notice. I have 8 gig and thats maxed out. I always stick up for your crazy
greek salad and your awesome 1965 brain

## Post 211 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Friday, 02-May-2014 13:15:18

I didn't get it yet, but here it is.
http://www.internet-go.com/
It's called Internet on the Go, and it's sold at Wallmart. It's not 4g LTE. It's 3g and it's on the Sprint network. It may seem a bit more expensive than the other services, but as you said, it never expires, and there is no monthly fee either. TMobile has 4g Lte plans with no contract, and no overages. But you do pay monthly and when you run out of your allotted usage, they throttle you, meaning that they slow the service down, until your next cycle.
I have 4gb of ram on this machine and have no problems as far as speed. I think that would be a 1967 mind, since that was the beginning of The Revolution of 21 April. As for the pentiums, yes. They're faster than my 486 machine. *smile* But seriously, I didn't realise that the name pentium was still being used.

## Post 212 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Friday, 02-May-2014 16:12:26

I think I'm either going to get another netbook, and hope that the third time is the charm (the first literally quit working, the second I somehow broke), or a Thinkpad X61. I may consider an Ideapad, but am not sure. At 12 inches, the X61 is larger than I wanted, but it's still more powerful than a netbook and still relatively light.

## Post 213 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Friday, 02-May-2014 16:17:35

as for netbooks, I've had two Aspire Ones. The first was an AOA150 (the 8.9 inches) and the second was a D255 (10.1 inches. I stuck with Acer because they have relatively normal keyboards, with none of the important keys (particularly the six pack insert/delete, home/end, page up/page down) missing. But can anyone recommend any others? They don't need to be new.

## Post 214 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 02-May-2014 16:55:52

Woot for ThinkPad!
Th'ats what i'm gonna get (not your model) but that's one good model of pc, from what I hear.

## Post 215 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Friday, 02-May-2014 19:52:26

I agree. I have a 110, an X31, and an X60. All are very good machines. But the X61 has more ram and still has the features of the previous model. Still, I may look into a newer one. It all depends on what I want.

## Post 216 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 02-May-2014 23:23:23

translation: It all depends on if they still make what you want.

## Post 217 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Saturday, 03-May-2014 21:41:53

I said newer, not newest. If they don't make it now, I can still get a nwer model, assuming that I could find what I'm seeking. But if it's just a carry-around machine, then it really doesn't matter, as my specifications for those are quite low.

## Post 218 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 04-May-2014 4:47:26

I know. just pickin on you tiff, I cant help myself! grins

## Post 219 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Sunday, 04-May-2014 19:19:09

Technically, Dell and Fujitsu probably do make things to my specifications, as they're known to include legacy hardware in their professional machines.

## Post 220 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Monday, 05-May-2014 23:56:13

I decided to see how far I could go with that dc series from HP, if I wanted a full desktop. The last model made was the Dc5850.
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/ca/en/sm/WF06b/12132708-12132884-12132884-12132884-81724932-81725262-81778549.html?dnr=2
It has double the ram and a better processor than the dc5700, and everything is internal except the 5.25 floppy, which doesn't bother me. But it only goes up to Vista, so I'm not sure if it can work with 7. It should, given the ram and speed, but I'm concerned about the drivers. Maybe, I can find a slightly newer one that still has all the features that I want.

## Post 221 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Tuesday, 06-May-2014 0:20:08

I found this extremely useful.
http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/archive/index.php/t-39322.html
I didn't realise that, even when they're built in, parallel and serial may not be real lpt and com, if they're using pci express cards. I will need to watch out for that. I'm also glad about the Thinkpads. If I decide to go with one of those for a portable, rather than a netbook, at least I have a few models listed here, including the X61, but also the T series. Still, I thought those were all tablets.

## Post 222 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Tuesday, 06-May-2014 10:36:42

You quite possibly own more computer hardware than I have personally owned in my entire life. Not speaking of professional gear which is not my own but belonging to employers. Though, even that included, you still might make an even match or near about.
And no, I am not jealous. lol

## Post 223 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Tuesday, 06-May-2014 16:25:38

If I include my Apple IIC and IIGS, my Macbook, my DOS machines, my dedicated Windows machines, and my Android, I have eleven working machines and eight broken systems, some of which are reparable and some which will be sold for parts. Right now, only four of the fully functioning models are available to me; two slow Windows machines, my Macbook, and my Android.

## Post 224 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Tuesday, 06-May-2014 16:30:20

hahaha Strike that. I have twelve working machines. I forgot my new DOS one. *smile* But I think I know what I'm going to do. I am either getting a netbook or an X61 for a portable and one of the HPs for a desktop, since I really do need to replace that. Originally, I wasn't intending on doing so, but I need a truly reliable machine to which I can connect everything and where I can save all of my files as a secure backup.

## Post 225 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Tuesday, 06-May-2014 16:57:36

The DC5850 can definitely handle Windows 7. I saw many on Ebay, including some with Pro and 8gb of ram, all at excellent prices! One had a tripple core processor, but only 2gb of ram and was running Vista. As much as I like the extra core, I think it would be too much of a hassle to upgrade the ram and Windows itself. While I must still learn if HP makes any newer fully-featured models, at least I'm sure that I can find and easily use one of these. When it comes to a desktop, I'm investing in a product that I want to use for a minimum of five years, though most likely more. So I don't want to make a mistake.

## Post 226 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Thursday, 08-May-2014 14:32:14

After much research, I think I will buy either the HP DC5850 or the HP DC7900 as my desktop, depending on what configurations are on Ebay and whether or not they can be changed, by the seller, if necessary. The more modern ones have the 3.5 and 5.25 drives (though I'm not sure if floppy drives can be installed or if they're just for hard drives), serial, and modem, but no parallel. I might consider one of those, but depending on how modern I go, the price could become extremely high, since these are business machines. They also might come with Windows 8, which I don't want. The other two, while old, can be found on Ebay, refurbished by either the manufacturer or a reputable company, so I don't have to worry about them breaking in the next few years.
My next quest is to find a netbook. It looks like I can't get anything under 10 inches, but considering their lightness, I suppose that's okay. So here are my requirements. If anyone can recommend one of these, please do so, as I want to purchase one in the next day or so. Despite my ram and processor choices, I'm really not expecting much from a netbook, other than internet surfing, Youtube watching/uploading, and working with my txt/rtf files. I have recorded videos and audio files on them successfully, so that shouldn't be a problem either. I just want something light, small, and with good battery life.
Screen size: 10.1 inches or less, no touchscreen
Weight: under 3 lbs. (lighter is better)
Battery life: a minimum of four hours (six and above preferred; can be accomplished with extended battery)
Keyboard: Must have six pack (insert/delete, home/end, page up/page down) or can be accomplished via function key
Ram: 2gb or more
Processor type: Doesn't matter dual core preferred but not necessary.
Cooling: Bottom must not get extremely hot when on my lap
Operating system: Windows 7 (Professional preferred but not necessary)
Extras/not necessary
Wireless switch
Real buttons for volume
Just for comparison, here are the specifications for the X61. Note that this machine can handle Windows 7. It has an excellent keyboard and wireless switch, as does the X60, plus 56k modem and pcmcia built-in, and options for other ports in the Ultrabase, which I already have. It has a dual core processor, with a maximum speed of 2ghz, as well as 4gb of ram. The volume buttons are also real and not a touchstrip like on the Elitebook. The battery life is at least 6 hours, even with the 4-cell. The only negatives that I can find are that it's a little bit heavier than a netbook and doesn't have a built-in webcam. Unfortunately, right now, the only ones on Ebay with 7 installed have touch screens, which, aside from being undesirable, also probably eat up the battery life.
http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/detail.page?LegacyDocID=MIGR-67778

## Post 227 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Thursday, 08-May-2014 20:09:51

I wrote this in another thread, but am copying it here, incase it helps with suggestions.
"I pretty much just use Wordpad, Notepad, Kindle (rarely)_, Calculator, Samnet, Klango, Windows Media Player, Media Player Classic (changed name/latest version), Firefox (or other browser), Debut Video Capture Software, Recordpad, Doxilion, Skype, Winzip 9, Ninite, Revo Uninstaller, plus a few games. The same holds true for my desktop, except that I will be seeking ocr software (probably Scan2text) and a braille translation program for that. I also just found something called XP Burn, which I installed via Ninite, and it looks interesting, though I doubt I will be using it often." I also won't be using it on my small laptop or netbook, unless I get an external drive.

## Post 228 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Friday, 09-May-2014 2:24:09

I've read several individual reviews, but these two links, by the same author, seem interesting. The comments in the first come from 2011, but in the article, it mentions one netbook coming from 2011 and being older, and Google said it was written in 2013 So I'll take that to mean that this one is fairly current. They also discuss mini laptops here as well.
http://www.tlbhd.com/most-powerful-netbooks-and-mini-laptops-best-picks-right-now-9284/
This one is definitely modern, as it says 2014 in the title. I like the prices and specs that I'm seeing here, especially since I'll probably just load 7 onto my X60 and this is meant to be a computer to hold me over for awhile and stay out with me. I really don't want to ruin my Thinkpad again, as it's a very nice machine.
http://www.tlbhd.com/best-10-inch-laptops-tablets-2168/

## Post 229 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 09-May-2014 11:38:59

netbooks were lucky to be upgradable to 2GB of Ram. Most i've seen have come with 1GB unless it was upgraded. Most had the addam processors (just avoid those), 6-pack key? forget about it. you wont find that on a netbook. you can get netbooks with windows 7 starter if you jus have to have that 10 inch screen but just spend a bit more and get something better and newer that stil has 7 on it. Scrap the netbook idea. save yourself and everybody else their sanety.

## Post 230 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 09-May-2014 11:43:10

tiff i dont get something. you have what. four working computers as it is. is that right? why do you want or need a fifth?
Out of all of those, you have nothing portible enough for your liking?
i've said it once and i'll say it again. i really think you are asking for the impossible here.

## Post 231 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Friday, 09-May-2014 13:49:53

If it uses a function key, then I don't need the full six pack, since I can use the arrow keys. It's a combination of screen size, lightness, and battery life. But if I'm going to buy a full-sized laptop, then I want it packed with features, not simply a few usb ports. I'll accept a docking station if necessary. That modern ThinkPad X100e does look interesting, and the site where I'm reading the reviews gave it a good rating. Whether it comes with an ultrabase or what I don't know. As I said, I'm most likely going to just have things loaded onto my X60, which I really like. So spending a lot of money for this doesn't seem like a good idea, especially if I learn that my current Thinkpad has 4gb of ram installed/must check, is smaller, lighter, and has good expansion options. The last I know to be true.
At any rate, the working computers that I have right now are:
my 12-year-old desktop with two serials, 1 parallel, 2 usb 2.2, floppy, cd, dialup (and wireless via usb adapter), a fast 2.66ghz processor, but only 512mb of ram, a broken headphone jack, and a nonfunctional ps/2 keyboard port (I'm using an active ps/2 to usb adapter)
My Dell Latitude PII-266 from 1999 (given to me as a gift) with 2 pcmcia slots, serial, parallel, usb 1.1, cd, and dialup, but only 256mb of ram, and a pentium II processor (great for Windows 3.1/95/98, DOS, and possibly Knoppix, but definitely not for XP, which is installed on it!)
My Macbook from 2007, running Snow Leopard (it can only go up to Lion)
my Nexus 7 from 2012/bought last year (I can barely use it, due to my lack of experience and frustration with the touchscreen)
The desktop would be great if I could upgrade it and fix the ports, but honestly, I worry that the hard drive will quit one day, as I sometimes hear it making noise. When I tap lightly on the case, it stops. It's constantly being used, and I'm not sure if it could handle Windows 7 or how much ram it could take. It's probably cheaper to get another one. Plus, this is the kind that sits on the floor, so is very large and heavy.

## Post 232 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Friday, 09-May-2014 18:36:19

As for netbooks, I'm strongly considering the following.
Asus 1015E (newest/2013
http://liliputing.com/2013/05/asus-1015e-low-cost-mini-notebook-review.html
Asus 1025CE
http://www.tlbhd.com/asus-1025ce-review-13372/
Asus EEE PC 1025C (a slightly cheaper version of above)
http://www.tlbhd.com/asus-eee-pc-1025c-review-13443/
Asus X101CH EEE PC (truly budget version of above)
http://www.tlbhd.com/asus-x101ch-eee-pc-unboxin-12954/
This is a good comparison.
Asus 1025CE vs 1025C vs X101CH EEE PC comparison – battle of 2012 netbooks
http://www.tlbhd.com/asus-1025ce-1025c-x101ch-eee-pc-comparison-battle-2012-netbooks-13431/
Wikipedia claims that the 1025CE and 1025C were sluggish, and that the 1015E solved that issue with a more powerful processor, but at a cost of battery life. In fact, even with the 6-cell battery, the revewer at the link posted only got between 4.5 and 6 hours of runtime. The only version of Windows that's factory installed on these later models is 8. That said, they don't come with touchscreens, which is great.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asus_Eee_PC
Asus Eee PC 1011CX
http://liliputing.com/2012/03/asus-eee-pc-1011cx-packs-this-years-chipset-in-last-years-netbook.html
HP Mini 1104
http://www.tlbhd.com/hp-launches-mini-1104-netbook-aimed-suits-13325/
HP Mini 5103
http://www.tlbhd.com/hp-mini-5103-review-the-versatile-business-netbook-wed-all-love-having-5917/
Just for comparison, here's the new Thinkpad. But of course, this is not a netbook, so will perform better. I found many on Ebay, the lowest price being about $150!
Lenovo ThinkPad X100e
http://www.tlbhd.com/lenovo-thinkpad-x100e-with-dual-core-amd-budget-ultraportable-at-its-best-4438/
I also read this article on the different Atom processors, just to get an idea of what to expect.
Intel Atom N2800 vs Atom N570 vs AMD e-450/C50 – benchmark comparison
http://www.tlbhd.com/intel-atom-n2800-vs-atom-n570-vs-amd-e-450c50-benchmark-comparison-10489/
There are some extremely light 19 inch computers out there, but the price range is incredibly high. Still, these are older now, so I might be able to find them at affordable prices. Most of these are also more powerful than standard netbooks.
The lightest mini laptops and netbooks you can buy right now
http://www.tlbhd.com/lightest-netbook-best-options-for-light-mini-laptops-3216/
After all of that, I set my criteria on ebay as buy it now, North America, less than 12 inches, 2gb of ram, and set the price between $80 and $350, rather than the usual $300. Unfortunately, I couldn't find any 1025CE, 1025C, or X101CH models, which are my first picks, though I did find the new 1015E, with Windows 7 and 2gb installed. So if I can't find a store that has the other ones, I might just get it. I also found a few slightly older ones that I will investigate. I also came across several HP Minis and Toshibas, but since I always keep these on my lap, I don't want something that gets very hot, and while I certainly don't mind smaller keys (I started out with an 8.9 inch Aspire One), I do like uniformity, and some of the Toshibas have full sized letter keys but smaller keys for shift/control/etc. Some of the older models are naturally not as powerful as the newer ones, but I would rather take a machine with lower graphics and longer battery life, as long as daily tasks like surfing the web and using Skype and Wordpad don't make it crawl. I've used Atom processors, at least with XP, and had no problems with them at all. I've also played games with no issues, though of course, since they're made for the blind, they're not intense on graphical usage, and since I have no sight at all, such visual things don't matter to me.

## Post 233 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 09-May-2014 20:40:59

I wont tell you what to pick, but i deffinetly uy oppted for newest if i were you and be sure you can return it.
Windows 8 with no touch screen will work fine and you can update it to 8.1 update as well. 7 also works well too.
Did you want me to look at any moddels in particular for my opinions?

## Post 234 by season (the invisible soul) on Friday, 09-May-2014 21:02:16

"if I'm going to buy a full-sized laptop, then I want it packed with features, not simply a few usb ports". Can you be more specific, and define what sort of features you are looking about? Are we talking about features like 5.25" disk, 3.25" disk, etc etc?
One of Your problem is that, you so call do all this readings, all these so call research, but not many of your sources are decent enough for any tech person to relate with them.
As i said on public quicknotes yesterday, your problem is that, you are always looking for that perfect, workable computer that is build in 1980s or 1990s, and hoping, praying to all your greek goddests that it will work in 2014, and beyond. People have been giving you suggestions on and off for at least a couple of years now, and have been listening to your complains and winjes for a couple of years about how you hate modern technology, how computer don't work, and this and that.
But yet, you go and get yourself a Nexus 7 2012 model, and have you really try working on it? No? you refuse to, you look at it, play with it for a few days/weeks, then, decided to let it go and display it as a dust collector and go on and on about how bad the modern technology has been treating you, how bad current products are, and how much you refuse to buy something made from somewhere etc etc.
What happen when i confronted you with your problems? you become very offensive, and provide all sorts of reason why something don't work, and how you got many interest beside trying and fail to revive ancient computer system to have them work in 2014/2015, even back in 2011 or 2010.
And now, you are interested in exploring some lymux system, because of what? Some told you, and some of your research said, Adriane works for the blind, and therefore you want to give it a go. Listen to yourself, you can't even accept any new OS later than XP and trying to explore other system thinking that you might get more out of it?
All systems got its pluses and minuses, but all system, when you firs tstarted, need a certain level of technical knowledge to work with it. Sadly to say, unfortunately, from all of your evidents on the boards, and public quicknotes, you do not, disply such level of knowledge.
Back to the topic...
I have an Asus 1050E sitting here, collecting dust. It is so slow and slaggish that i only use it to play RSGames. And, i think, the last time i boter to even turn that thing on is like a year ago, and has been sitting there collecting dust since. My 2007 DellXpX12M is much faster than it.
Why i bother to bought it? It was sort of birthday present to speak of, then, i got attracted with the stupid white classish design, and the claime of battory life of 8 to 10 hours or something. Also, i thought my Dell was gonna died on me at some stage, but then, i prefer to spend money on reparing a 5 year old system, back then, compare to use the new system.
When i had it, i haven't got my 2012 MacBookAir yet. The size is right, but its about twice thicker than my MBA, and twice heavier if not more than my MBA too.
Of course, Asus is probably a third for what i paid for my MBA, but i didn't get my value out of it at all.

## Post 235 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Friday, 09-May-2014 22:22:36

Okay, here are my specs for a full laptop.
screen size: 14 inches or less
processor: dual core or higher, 2ghz or higher
ram: 4gb or higher (I doubt I'll need more than 8gb)
hard drive: 80gb or higher (I don't need more than 120gb but will accept it)
keyboard: full-size (can skip numeric pad) with full six pack
ports: usb, parallel (optional), ps/2 for external keyboard (optional)
jacks: separate headphone and microphone
slots: pcmcia, pci (if no parallel)
external media: cd or dvd drive
internet: wireless, ethernet, 56k modem
battery life: 4 hours or higher (bay for extra battery is a plus)
operating system: Windows 7/8 or Knoppix
I would only require serial or floppy (3.5 not 5.25) if I was using DOS. I could also probably just get a pcmcia to parallel, so the pci slot isn't completely necessary either. The ps/2 would just be a backup incase something happened to the built-in keyboard. At any rate, I would expect a full keyboard to be fairly rugged, in the sense that it wouldn't break if dropped once or twice, and wouldn't stop working if a drop of water got onto it. I would also expect it to weigh anywhere from 4 to 8 lbs. given the larger screen size and internal drives.
I didn't realise that the Android would give me such a problem. It was a bit of a spur of the moment thing, which is extremely rare for me, to the point that I can only remember one or two other times that I bought something like that. My parents had received a free Android with 4.1 on it. Mom asked me if I wanted it. I said I would research it. I did, and read that it's better to get one from Google, as certain things are standard, Talkback is always installed, etc. I considered trying one, since I read that Android is open source, so there is more of an opportunity to create programs for it than with Apple, and since it was far cheaper. A week or two later, Mom and I were in a store where they had the Nexus 7, and the price was decent. So I said I would get it, and Mom bought it for me as a gift. She said I should try it and see how I liked it. I found that I could use the blue tooth keyboard with it and thought I was set, and that all I would need to do is to learn the system. I didn't realise that so much of it relies on touch and that there's no way around it. I did try the Talkback tutorial a few times, but it frustrated me, and I couldn't understand why I had to change modes just to do basic things, like reading by word/character/sentence/paragraph, and why I couldn't simply access the Talkback menu with a hotkey. Furthermore, I can't fully navigate Firefox with the keyboard, even though some shortcuts exist. I use Big Launcher for my homescreen, but even with the default one, I can't just navigate to programs by hitting their letters. I have to arrow through each of them. I tried both Utter and Just Speak, which are supposed to handle voice commands, but they still don't do everything and don't always work properly in any case. I really want to like Android. It's a nice little machine, even though I do have to use an external keyboard. But this touchscreen interface is driving me crazy!
I'm not sure if you meant offensive (that I hurt your feelings/was rude) or defensive (stated my points strongly and explained reasons for them). In either case, I was not meaning to come off as rude. You asked me some questions and I answered them to the best of my ability.
As for Knoppix, it's a free system that can be run from a cd, dvd, or usb drive (depending on your choice). So it doesn't need to be installed on a computer, and almost anyone machine (barring something ridiculously old) can handle it. Adriane is a desktop designed specifically for the blind, so it is fully accessible. That said, it's self-contained, so you can't just use any program with it as you can with Gnome and other desktops. But those are in Knoppix as well, o I could switch to Orca and/or learn the Linux commandline, which is more like DOS. I was a bit hesitant there, as it seemed foreign, but as I said earlier, it's better than a touchscreen. Regardless, it can't hurt to try Adriane, and it's supposed to be extremely simple to use. Plus, it contains almost everything that I need for daily use, plus programs for ocr and braille translation.
I'm slightly curious about the new Mac operating system, but not enough to go out and purchase a new Macbook. Maybe, if I could find a cheap one, I might play with it. But given the headaches that I had with Leopard and Snow Leopard, I don't want to go into that right now. I'm considering Windows 8 and 8.1, but I really need to look into that as well and see if it would even be worth it for me.

## Post 236 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Friday, 09-May-2014 22:31:10

Is your Asus an EEE PC or something else? I couldn't find it in the list on Wikipedia and I think that one is complete.

## Post 237 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Friday, 09-May-2014 23:01:33

I've found a few of the Asus models with 1gb of ram (two I know are easily upgradeable to 2gb through a latch on the bottom) and an Atom 2600 processor. But I know that they also come configured with 2gb of ram and an Atom 2800 processor. Is there a huge difference between 2600 and 2800? My last netbook had a 455 and 1gb of ram, and worked fine, but was running XP, not 7.

## Post 238 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Saturday, 10-May-2014 16:29:34

skip the addam processors, they suck.
My suggestion is that you get a laptop and just deal with the USB to y yadayada port conversion. tha'ts your best option, i think.
that's the only one that will make sure you dont run around trying to chase your tail.

## Post 239 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Saturday, 10-May-2014 17:23:33

As I said, in an ultraportable, I don't need all of those ports. But I do need it to be cheap, small, light, to have a long battery life, and to not get truly hot, as it will be on my lap most of the time. This is not a serious laptop, but one for everyday use; one that will be taken out of the house, used on my balcony, near my pool, when on holiday, etc.

## Post 240 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Saturday, 10-May-2014 17:39:11

Someone yesterday was saying something about Windows Starter being terrible. So I did a little research, and found this.
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-windows_install/windows-7-starter-what-are-the-limitations/422801d5-89de-494d-8cc1-6f4fc21c2ac0
The only things that really relate to me are no dvd playback, no virtual boot option, and the ram size. But I almost never use dvds, and the virtual boot would only be for experimenting with other systems. Plus, I would only do these on a desktop, which wouldn't have Starter on it anyway. The ram may or may not be an issue, as I'm not sure if Starter needs more than 2gb and if 1gb is enough or will be like 512mb on XP. That's what I have on this desktop, though the processor is 2.66ghz. Still, it's single core. So maybe, a dual core Atom on a netbook, which doesn't require that much power, will still be faster than what I'm currently using, even if it is the slower 2600 at 1.6ghz instead of the 2800 at 1.8ghz. I don't know. It's all confusing. I just want a cheap portable machine, until I decide whether I'm having my X60 fixed or getting an X61, and whether to keep or sell that Elitebook. But that's nowhere near as portable and light as I would like, even though it's very powerful. If I could find a nice nontablet X61 with 4gb ram, a 2ghz processor, and Windows 7 or 8, I would be set. I don't think I need more than that, and those are good laptops.

## Post 241 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Saturday, 10-May-2014 21:54:47

An adam processor will not be fast. You are working with a very minimal amount of Ram with your 512 MB there too.
Any desktop processor is gonna outclass those adam processors any day.
I know what you want. what you want is impossible to find.
Tiff have you ever thought to ask yourself this question? ok, so i want all this in a computer. but no matter how many hours, days, weeks and months I do research I am not finding it. wouldn't that lead you to believe that such a thing doesn't exist? Not only have you not been successfull in finding the perfect thing after doing more research than anybody I know ever would, but you have more than one person teling you it doesn't exist.
Ok, maybe give up and try to find something that can come close.
be able to except things like using USB to yada yada ports . Being willing to live with an 11.6 rather then 10" screene only. i mean tiff really... do you measure it? i'm half serious here. do you really measure these things? If you dont measure, is there some other pressing reason why you must have it to be 10" or smaller? I mean, is there some place that you are putting this thing that 10" will make your pack just fit, and it'd be a very tight fit or something
Heres one more line of thought. If you are willing to only spend $250 on a netbook, and around $500 to $700 on a laptop, why not combine them? You could spend say $900 or maybe even $1000 on one device.
You could get a very nice ultrabook made in 2012 without a touch screen. This would have windows 7. This would have plenty of ram to play with. it'd include a nice solid state drive. it'd be spill resistant like you request. I believe ultrabooks must way under 4 pounds also, so you'd have that going for you. Yes the processor would be faster than what you seem to insist apon, but why bawk at speed? why bawk at more ram that is faster ram? it'll only help what you do do to run better and faster. think of it like this also. if something in your life changes, and you decide to do more heavier tasks, you'd already have spent the money once up front now. you wouldn't need to get another computer a year or two down the line.
this ultrabook could last a long time to come. It'd be most likely be able to handle whatever version of windows that is out in January 2020 when Windows 7 stops being supported. it it'd be made at least as good as , if not better than that ThinkPad. It'd have the USb ports, the DVD RW drive to boot, and you could get USB to YadaYada p converts for the old tech you wanna use. You would have good battery life also. If you were willing to go new and deal with a touch screen being on the device... (what I mean by deal with, is it just be there and not be used), you could get the forth generation processors too and thereby have even better battery life than a two year old ultrabook.
If you havent already, Give all of this some thought.

## Post 242 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Saturday, 10-May-2014 22:32:47

My requirements for a netbook are not unrealistic at all. I actually found them all in the Asus 1025C/CE and X101CH. I just can't seem to find the ones with at least 2gb of ram, even if I took the 2600 over the 2800, I probably would need that ram for 7. If I was buying an XP machine, it would be extremely simple, because I have worked with netbooks with even older Atom processors and 1gb of ram and was very satisfied. But I'm not sure if I could do it with 7, since I don't know how it would react to such low specifications.
As for the screen, I will admit it's a bit ridiculous. But I'm also very frustrated. The whole point of this, before it became a necessity to choose, was that I wanted something very small. I started out thinking of BrailleNotes and such. An 8.9 screen would be best, but I raised my requirements to 10.1, so that I could get a faster machine that will work smoothly with Windows 7. Now, you're asking me to go with 11.6. If so, I may as well just get a 12.1 inch laptop, and if that's the case, then I like the X61, due to the ultrabase, the modem, plus the pcmcia. It's a full laptop solution in a small package, even though I usually don't use said base and won't need such things for daily use. But I keep seeing only the tablet on Ebay. Maybe, if I remove the Windows 7 requirement, I can get one with Vista and upgrade it.
I'm not actually willing to spend $500 on a laptop. That number was hypothetical, if I could find the perfect machine, or if I chose to buy something specialised for the blind, which would naturally be expensive. I would never spend $1,000 on a laptop, even when combined with a desktop, unless it was completely custom-made. My real price is $350 or less, preferably $300 or less. I also want to buy a desktop, so don't want to spend too much on this, even though I will be selling several things and will easily get the money back. I need to see whether it's worth it to have my X60 fixed (upgrade to 7, check the ram, replace the keyboard/my fault that it broke, and possibly replace the fan). We already have the keyboard and the disk for 7. But this will take time, particularly if the ram is 4gb, I decide to keep it, and we need to replace that fan. Sometimes, the machine just turns off in the middle of working, and I heard that this could be why. If I don't replace it, then I could just buy another X60 or an X61 without a hard drive and put this one in it, and sell mine for parts. I also need to decide whether to keep this Elitebook or not. I don't know if these sound and other problems will continue once 7 is reinstalled. If so, then I will either sell it on Ebay or give or sell it to Lee. If not, then I might take it back. Regardless, I need something to hold me over right now, and if I do take that Elitebook back, I will still want a portable. So I guess what I need to decide is do I want a netbook or should I just go and grab that Thinkpad? The advantage to the Thinkpad, of course, is the extra ports and slots, plus the power. But netbooks are still a bit lighter and smaller, and I remember that's one thing that I really liked when I owned them.

## Post 243 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Saturday, 10-May-2014 22:54:54

Well, there is one thing i keep hearing over and over. Thinkpad X60 or X61. If tha'ts what you want, and tha'ts what you feel has all you need, i'd go with getting that fixed.
the thing is, the more you spend the better you'll get. if you were willing to put the money you woulda put into the desktop into this purchase, you could get something much nicer. i can understand that you'd want two working things, in case something fails you aren't screwed.

## Post 244 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Saturday, 10-May-2014 23:16:49

Yes. One is to carry around with me and the other will remain on the desk, at all times, and will have all sorts of things plugged into it. This is why I want both.
As for the Thinkpad, this should help me decide what to do. I will check out the more modern ones and their features as well as their expantion options. By the way, the one I have can handle 4gb of ram, despite what this article says. I found that on the actual Lenovo site. I think it can also go up to 2ghz, but could be wrong there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinkPad_X_Series
Regardless, the battery life on the newer ones is really good, and the design is serious, which I like. I know I can't see it, but I buy computers to do work, not to enter fashion shows.

## Post 245 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Saturday, 10-May-2014 23:19:56

wel tiff, newere will always be better wh in my opinion. not sure w how many otherrs even are chiming in anymore. if you get that X61 fixed, deffinetly put the 4GB of ram in there. you'll like that a lot.

## Post 246 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Saturday, 10-May-2014 23:33:33

The more I think of it the more I think we did that. I remember having the ram upgraded on a computer, and those are very easy, since you just remove the modules from the bottom. So all that would be needed is the keyboard, and possibly the fan. But if it's not that, then I have no idea why it's been shutting off like that.

## Post 247 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Saturday, 10-May-2014 23:37:08

try a new fan and see.

## Post 248 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Saturday, 10-May-2014 23:43:02

The immediate problem is that Lee has all of my portable computers. I need to wait for him to receive them (I think he did yesterday, but left for the weekend, so couldn't check), and then to fix them. Then, I have to wait for him to ship them (I'm sure he'll do that the same or next day) and then to receive them. The Elitebook is quick enough to fix, but I'm still not sure if I want it. If I take it, and don't want it, then I have to bother Mom to send it back. If the fan in the Thinkpad is okay, and just cleaning it solves the problem, then it can be upgraded with 7 and returned as quickly as the Elitebook. But if anything except the keyboard (which Lee already has) needs to be replaced, he'll need to order it, wait for it, and then install it, and then ship it off, all of which will take time. This is why I'm looking for a cheap and quick fix. The weather is getting really nice and I'd like to be able to go out and enjoy it, but also to listen to music, read, and go online while doing so. I suppose I can use the Macbook for the first two, and maybe for the internet a little, but after awhile, browsing with it really gets on my nerves, which is why I'm thinking of running Knoppix off of a cd on there.

## Post 249 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Saturday, 10-May-2014 23:43:34

I meant dvd.

## Post 250 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Saturday, 10-May-2014 23:50:24

well hmm.
not sure what to tell you at this point.
is he gona charge you for parts

## Post 251 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Saturday, 10-May-2014 23:51:37

No. He's not charging me for anything.

## Post 252 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Saturday, 10-May-2014 23:56:59

Basically, I just want to know this. Let's assume that I can't find that Thinkpad on Ebay right now, and I'm still waiting for mine to get fixed. Will a netbook with an Atom processor and 1gb of ram perform as well with Windows 7 Starter as with Windows XP Home? If so, then I'll get it. If not, then I will find a cheap laptop.

## Post 253 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 11-May-2014 0:03:01

oh tiff. smile .ok, get that cheap laptop.
G

## Post 254 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Sunday, 11-May-2014 1:30:03

In that case, I have a lot to read. *smile*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinkPad
I like the latches on the lids, though it's not a deal breaker if a newer laptop doesn't have one, and the physical buttons for volume up/down and mute. That could definitely be a deciding factor for me, especially if I use Windows. I also don't like the combination headphone/microphone jack that many come with today. At any rate, Some of these (from 2010 onward) are quite heavy, but some have very good battery life. So far, from this page and the previous one, I'm interested in the X100e, X201S and X200S models. I think I'll look for the s ones first, when I do my search tomorrow. As for the modern ones, I'll need to examine them more closely and see if they're affordable and meet my other specifications. But at least I have a few ideas now.

## Post 255 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 11-May-2014 1:52:59

I do think i see a light at the end of tiff's tunnel...

## Post 256 by SilverLightning (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 11-May-2014 7:29:09

Its not a light, its just a lamp on the tunnel wall. She's buying cheap old
technology, it'll break within a year and she'll be back here asking us the same
questions, getting the same answers, giving the same excuses, and not taking
the same advice. she'll buy more old and cheap technology, and just keep
slogging down this same old tunnel. Hell, at this point its not even a tunnel, its
a tube twisted into a circle. It has no end until she wises up and stops being
childish.

## Post 257 by write away (The Zone's Blunt Object) on Sunday, 11-May-2014 11:29:25

Something really caught my eye here. Tiff, you said you'll be using the portable computer while having it on your lap most of the time? Dont' you know that that's a really bad idea, no matter what sort of laptop you get? Even a laptop that doesnt' overheat quickly is not supposed to be kept on someone's lap. Remember... most air vents and circulation is designed on the bottom of a computer. If you cover that with your skin or your clothing, you're effectively closing off any air ventilation your computer could get. Think about it this way: your computer needs to breathe just like a baby would need to breathe. You wouldnt' lay a baby down in your lap and cover its mouth, right? Right. So dont' do that to any computer. You can get a cheap lapdesk for less than 20 bucks to prevent any computer from overheating. They even have fourteen-dollar USB powered cooling pads that actually plug into your portable computer and enable a fan to run under the vents to keep them cool. Or, if you're not willing to spend a single sent on a very cheap and effective solution, then simply using a clipboard would do the trick. Not a book, mind you. A book with a hard cover would be too thick and would generate heat eventually. Also, if you buy anything with a moveable, conventional hard drive, it's bound to use its fan more and its bound to overheat eventually. Your best bet for not overheating is a computer with a solid state harddrive. I'd honestly go all out and buy an ultrabook for close to a thousand bucks, then go and get an external USB drive--one of the really good and cheap big ones, that you can back everything up on. You can back up entire systems on those drives--create an entire image of your whole operating system, so that if you ever had to restore it or if your computer ever crashed, you'd have the exact backup of the system. Why buy two different computers when you can buy one really good one. I mean, not only aren't you willing to spend the money for a top-of-the-line system, you're also not willing to replace whatever you get for a number of years. That's a contradiction in my book. If you want something to last you for years to come, it should be an investment like no other. Plus, tiff, it's not like you have some sort of super-important, top notch executive job that you need to have a computer at all times for, that you can't spend a day without a computer while it's getting fixed. Trust me. I have a steady copywriting job with a company for whom I work remotely. My job literallly relies on me having a system that works at all times. You know what I have in terms of technology? A macBook Air 2013 with both OSX and Windows installed on it, a braille-sense on-hand, and an iPad. I also have an iPhone and an external 2-terabyte drive. that's it.
Minimalist, yet very effective and high-quality.
You have all these computers, half or more of them that don't even work or serve their purpose for you--doesnt' that tell you something about buying old systems and being stingy with your dollar? lol
I guarantee you that two years from now, you will have accumulated a few more tech junks and you'll still be on the search for the ideal machine, while I'll still be using my same, reliable setup.

## Post 258 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Sunday, 11-May-2014 13:09:20

I actually was planning on getting a lapdesk. I had one that worked nicely, but it was cheap plastic and broke. I'll look for a more durable one. The fans can actually blow dust into the computer, so I'm staying away from those. They also make gell pads, which are good if the vents aren't on the bottom of the machine, but I like the ones that lift the laptop up so that there is space between it and the desk, providing the best possible flow. A low voltage computer is designed to run cooler, but it's probably still a good idea to put something under it.
There is no way that I'm spending $1,000 for a computer, laptop or desktop. So that's out. But if I can find a slightly older one that was top of the line when it was made, and it's a decent price now, I would consider it. But it would be a waste of such a good machine. Plus, most (not all) of the time, those are a bit heavy. If I was working, as you say, or planned on keeping the laptop in one place much of the time, I wouldn't mind that and would know that it would remain in good condition. When it comes to my desktop, however, that's different. I really do wish to keep that for many years and for it to be high quality. But I think I know what I'll get in that category.
A day is fine. A week is not. There really isn't much that I can do outside without a computer, except listen to music or to audiobooks, assuming that I can find the latter, as they're all in a bag. My regular music is mostly on the computer, though some is on records, tapes (I don't know where they are, and cds (I don't have a cd player because I just rip them). Right now, my crafting things aren't really available, except my air dry clay, and soap making supplies, so that's out. I don't have braille books, because they're too expensive. Now that cable is hooked up, I could watch television or my videos, but I would still need to stay inside for that, and look on my desktop for the channel lineup, since they have a million different channels now, most of which I won't even use. I suppose I can write with my slate and stylus (the roller kind that I love or play with my komboloi (worry beads), but I can only do that for so long Plus, all of my friends are online.
How you can call all of that minimalist is beyond me. Most of those computers are in the attic, and were either new when bought, or were never set up. Some were bought when I was a child or were given to me as gifts. If I could get them out, I could probably use a few of them, some seriously and some for experimentation.
I started this thread as a curiosity, simply because I wanted something lighter and smaller than what I was originally using. But it became a necessity when I sent off my machines. Hopefully, they'll be easy to fix and I can go on my way once that's done.

## Post 259 by SilverLightning (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 11-May-2014 13:26:07

Notice how you keep having to say hopefully Tif. We don't say hopefully. I
don't have to say, "Hopefully my IPhone will work", or "Hopefully my mac will
work". We don't have to say that because we were willing to spend the money
on the technology that works now.
And I just have to point this out, just about everything was top of the line
when it was made Tif. The model T Ford was top of the line when it was made.
Its now incredibly outdated.
And yes, Bernadetta's set up is minimal. She has one computer, one braille
device, one phone and one IPad with one drive that she can use for all of them.
That's minimal. You have a dozen computers, and apparently none of them are
working for you. None of us ever have to ask if this operating system will work
with this configuration on this day of the week in this weather if we ask this
fairy for a bit of magic in this specific language. We know, hands down, that its
going to work. Go ahead, search the boards. The most you will find are
questions about what game is best, which voice synth is preferred and a few
command questions. That's it. Now look at the things you ask, it should give
you pause.

## Post 260 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Sunday, 11-May-2014 13:40:32

Elitebook: Needs Windows 7 reinstalled.
Thinkpad X60: Needs upgrade to Windows 7, new keyboard, and possibly fan.
Pavilion Ze5385US: Needs XP clean installed or Knoppix put on it, and power jack fixed.
Itronix: Needs new adapter and screenreader loaded.
Dell: Needs drivers for internet.
Aspire One D255, Thinkpad X32: Sell for parts.
As you can see, the Elitebook, Pavilion, Dell, and Itronix all work perfectly and only need minor fixes. The Thinkpad's up in the air right now. If I would have just sent the Pavilion to HP a few years ago to have that stupid jack fixed, I probably wouldn't have bought the netbooks, Thinkpads, or Elitebooks. But then, I would have missed out on some great portable machines. The Pavilion weighs about 8 lbs. If it wasn't for the fact that it could only handle 1 gb of ram and that the processor is single core (though it is 2.66ghz), I would gladly stick 7 on it and use it as a full desktop replacement, since it has everything in it. If I could find a slightly newer one with similar specifications and better ram, I'd get it and might not even get the desktop.

## Post 261 by SilverLightning (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 11-May-2014 13:46:32

IPhone five. Weighs a few ounces, and will beat every computer you have
hands down without trying and allows me to send text messages. Macbook pro,
weighs a couple pounds and will do everything your computers can do, faster
than they could have ever done it, and doesn't need new parts, or even a fan
since it doesn't heat up. Face it Tif, you're technology simply loses. It wasn't
good enough four years ago, it certainly isn't good enough today. The tech
world progresses entirely too fast for that. Hell, my MP3 player, the piece of
technology I have just to listen to music, could beat your computers, and even
have more memory than all of them.

## Post 262 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 11-May-2014 13:57:53

you know, bernedetta codey and I do say simular things.
here's what i'd do if it were me:
Elitebook: Needs Windows 7 reinstalled. Easy enough. clean install. wil run nice. a keeper
Thinkpad X60: Needs upgrade to Windows 7, new keyboard, and possibly fan. Are you sure its not the motherboard that went? If it did, i wouldn't bother.. IF its those two things that might be fixable and work.
Pavilion Ze5385US: Needs XP clean installed or Knoppix put on it, and power jack fixed. i wouldn't even bother with this one.
Itronix: Needs new adapter and screenreader loaded. If you just mean an AC cord, ok that sounds simple enough.
Dell: Needs drivers for internet. That sounds simple enough also.
Now if I had to pick just one to actually put my money into? it'd be that Elitebook. Screw the rest.

## Post 263 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Sunday, 11-May-2014 14:04:24

Oddly enough, my other technology, like my tv/vcr from the early 200s, my talking clock and Language Master from the early 90s, my blender, walkman, and headphones from the 80s, my kitchen mixer from the 70s, my shaver and tape recorder from the 60s, and even my typewriter from 1908, all work perfectly. It's just the computers that drive me crazy.
As for mp3 players, I love the Muvo T100, and honestly and truly wish I knew what happened to mine. It worked perfectly when I got it, and one day, it literally stopped working. I have no idea why, and no matter how much I charged it, it wouldn't turn back on. I heard it might be the battery. Anyway, I'm looking for another 4gb one on Ebay. Like the Zen Stones, they're simple and easy to use, but they hold more memory.

## Post 264 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Sunday, 11-May-2014 14:12:58

We actually found a new motherboard with fan on Ebay for only $45. I know Lee would be willing to reinstall it. But if it's truly difficult, it might just be better to sell this one for parts and buy another one. If I get an X60 or X61, I could just buy one without a hard drive and put this one in. I don't know about the s versions of these. I'm also not sure what newer models might work with the hard drive, but it's not necessary for me to use it.
The Pavilion is one of my favourite machines, and I would hate to get rid of it, especially when there's nothing really wrong with it. Yes, the Itronix just needs a new ac adapter and to have a screen reader put on it. The owner told me that the battery might need a rebuild in a year or two, but I'm definitely not doing that. I may get another one or just use it plugged in. This is the one with MSDOS 6.22 on it. The Dell is the one that we've been working on forever, and it finally has MSDOS 7.22 on it. So all it needs is those drivers. Usually, Dell is very good about DOS drivers, and even still puts FreeDOS on many of their machines today. For some reason, though, this particular laptop doesn't seem to have them for the built-in modem. I think the computer originally had 98 on it. It was Lee's, not mine, so I can't say for certain. If it's not dialup, then it's the wireless card that it needs, and that should be relatively easy to find on Ebay.
The Elitebook drove me crazy with the sound, "task switching", and "unknown" errors. It's also a bit large and heavy. But yes. It's the easiest machine with Windows 7 to fix.

## Post 265 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 11-May-2014 14:25:07

well i wouldn't even bother with the ones running dos.
hell i wouldn't use dos. that's just me though.

## Post 266 by SilverLightning (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 11-May-2014 14:43:01

Ok, Tif, I'll try to point this out without sounding too patronizing. There is an
enormous difference between a blender and a computer. A computer has
thousands of moving parts that must all come together and blend with
electronic codes in order to work. One little bug in the system and it no longer
works. A blender, a mixer and those kinds of things are just a motor that
powers a gear that spins a blade or a paddle or what have you. That's why
they've been around for a century, and computers have been around for thirty
years or so, and the computer as we know it today hasn't even been around for
that long. They're incredibly complex machines.
Now, you want not only to use an incredibly old machine, at least in terms of
computers, but you want to only spend an incredibly small amount of money to
do it, and you want it to last you for years just like your blender does. You're
tossing pennies into a wishing well and hoping they come out as gold bars Tif.
You get out what you put into a computer. Pay a little for old tech, and soon it
will be a paperweight. Paperweights are also old and cheap technology. That's
how the world works these days. You're just going to have to get with the
program.

## Post 267 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Sunday, 11-May-2014 16:15:37

Fair enough. So let's talk strictly computers. My desktop and Pavilion are both about 12-years-old and work fine. The only things wrong on the desktop are a broken ps/2 port and a broken headphone jack. One of my Keynote Gold laptops is also in good condition, to my knowledge (I haven't used it in awhile). The other is doing a strange thing at the bios, but that may be easily fixed by a key press. Anyway, they're at least 17-years-old, and my Dell with XP on it is about two years newer. The system is clearly wrong there (I didn't buy it nor have it configured that way), but the computer itself works like a charm. The reason I wanted different machines, in all of these cases, was because I wanted something newer and faster that could handle 7. That doesn't mean, however, that I'm willing to spend a fortune to get bleeding edge technology that I probably don't even need, considering the things that I do. I just want something that works and that I can use. If I buy a slightly older computer that's in good condition, particularly if it was made by a reputable manufacturer and was one of their top products, I should be fine.

## Post 268 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 11-May-2014 16:18:10

Yeah. but you wont be fine on a computer that is 12 to 17 years old. its just a matter of time.
why arent you looking to buy new ?

## Post 269 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Sunday, 11-May-2014 16:21:32

Regardless, I just received the link for Knoppix, which can run on almost all of my systems, except the KeyNotes, and possibly the Dell (it can run there but might be a bit slow). It would work beautifully on my Pavilion, but that's hardly the type of thing to carry around with me, unless I want to take up weight lifting. *smile* But honestly, if I like this system, not just with Adriane, but the full configuration, then my possibilities for computers are pretty much endless as are my options for programs. I could even run Windows XP in a simulator if I needed a program from there!

## Post 270 by SilverLightning (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 11-May-2014 16:31:16

The answer to your question is rather simple Tif. Its because the more
contrivances you have to go through to make your computer work, the more
things that go wrong. The more things taht go wrong, the more you have to
come here and ask for help. That's why you have dozens of board posts asking
how to make old technology work with a handful of programs, and those of us
using modern technology don't. We don't have to worry about making windows
eight run on our machines, because our machines probably came with windows
eight and run it with ram to spare. We don't have those problems, and yet you
want us to help you fix your problems.
In addition to that, the hardware used in old computers isn't usually available
anymore. We don't use floppy discs and that sort of thing, and we don't for a
reason. You're subjecting yourself to problems and shortcomings which were
solved for the rest of us ten years ago. That's why technology progresses,
because the new technology solves problems that the old technology couldn't.
You want us to solve the problems of the old technology without actually using
the new technology that already solved it.
for example, you want small and compact, but don't want to use the touch
screens that made computers smaller and more compact than they have ever
been without sacrificing speed or capacity. Then, you complain about not being
able to find solutions, or you find six different programs that, maybe, work
together to halfway fix your problem. And in a few months you'll be back asking
the same questions over again when the solutions you're getting now no longer
fix the problem. Its what you've done before. Does that answer your question.
Oh, and by the way Tif, since you're so worried about security, XP is about to
not be secure at all. So if you want security, you should use something more
modern. Which just goes back to my first point. Technology progresses, you
need to progress along with it, or you'll get left behind, which you clearly are.

## Post 271 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 11-May-2014 16:39:11

not to mention, every idea anybody gives you you tell us how its not good enough, or find something wrong with it. Makes people not wanna help you, cause they cant. damned if they do and damned if they dont.
I dont agree that you need to have a touch screen, but i do agree that you need newer tech.
I dont agree that apple is the only way to go with IDevices, but yes. you do need to get modddern technoligy. If windows 8.1 update isn't your thing stick with 7. nothing wrong with that and computers are easy to find with this OS installed.
if you wanna install your own clean version of Windows 7, nothing wrong with that either. Just put it on that Elitebook and maybe get another smaller device with 7.
The rest simply dont seem worth the time, energy and effort. Especially those that run dos or can only run windows XP. you've already put to much time into research and tryin to fix this old tech as it is.

## Post 272 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Sunday, 11-May-2014 16:44:55

I don't need it to be the fastest thing on the planet. I just need to make sure that it will work with 7 and not get stuck. These netbooks came with 7, and so did the notebooks that I'm considering. Even the ones that didn't, if they're real laptops, could definitely handle it. But the netbooks are, most times, lighter and have a better battery life, unless you compare them with the ultra low voltage laptops. There are certainly small and light computers out there without touchscreens. If I choose to get one that has one, that's fine. But considering my previous statement, I shouldn't be forced to do so.
As for modern operating systems, Windows 7 came out in 2012, and Knoppix 7.3 is so new that it just came out last March. It's not even on their main site yet, and the only reason why I'm able to get it is because my friend bought the magazine which contained a free dvd of it.

## Post 273 by write away (The Zone's Blunt Object) on Sunday, 11-May-2014 16:53:33

And yet, all of the supposedly "simple fixes" that each of your computers need are effectively proventing you from being able to use them successfully--or at all.
You operate on ands, ifs and if onlys. I operate with machinery that doesn't need me to jump through hoops to make it work.
example:
Macbook air: needs nothing--works perfectly. Using it right now.
iPhone: use it every day, use it for work even, needs nothing except for the occasional update to apps or the os.
iPad: same thing. Prestine condition thogu I've had it for two years.
Braille Sense: needs nothing. Works perfectly. No issues.
How does that even compete? lol.
Join us, tiff. Join us in today's world. Or religate back to ancient times--if you happen to possess a time machine that works at least half-way decently, that is.

## Post 274 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 11-May-2014 17:13:20

My stuff just works, too.
my stuff is older sure, but it just works.
I have a new one coming which will also just work.
I just put 7 on an 8 year old laptop. it just works. when it decides not to work anymore, i wont put money into trying to fix it. My dekstop is also 8 years old, but just works. however the hardware in this has been ported from systems over and over so that's slightly different. I'll probably put 7 on this one too after I put a solid state drive in it. however there becomes a point that you are throing good money after bad. a hard drive fails, r replace it. but what happens when 4 things fail within 5 months? at this point your putting waaay too much money into replacing aging devices in that desktop. At some point, i'm just gonna get a new custem configured desktop.

## Post 275 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Sunday, 11-May-2014 19:27:24

The computers I'm considering are definitely not eight-years-old. But if you can run 7 on those, I guess it answers my question. I can definitely run it on newer machines. That's all I really wanted to know in my more recent posts.

## Post 276 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Sunday, 11-May-2014 19:28:30

As for the desktop, I will buy that refurbished, so it will be like new. No loss there at all.

## Post 277 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 11-May-2014 19:41:07

maybe i will skip the SSd for trhi this dsktop. by the time i spend that money on an SSD, then get a converter to make it from 2.5 to 3.5, is it really worth it? right now I'm thinkin it isn't worth it.
not all computers that are 8 years old would run windows 7 well.
my desktop right now is a P4 HT 3.0 GHZ, 4 GB ddr2 Ram.
the hard drives however are at least 8 years old if not older.
i've already had to replace the leaky capasitors on the mother board . the on-board sound on the mother board has failed. i believe so has the on-board vidio. there becomes a point. and i'm seriously considering saying to hell with putting 7 on this thing, and instead getting a new much faster box. new motherboard that can hold much more ram as it'd be 64-bit, new solid state drive. oh sure i'd keep the other drives in the case but i wouldn't use such an old drive to try to put 7 on. i think one internal drive has failed already. its old. lol

## Post 278 by starfly (99956) on Sunday, 11-May-2014 20:41:35

Tiff you say "There really isn't much that I can do outside without a computer, except listen to music or to audiobooks, assuming that I can find the latter, as they're all in a bag." Here is something for you to ponder, your nexus7 can stream videos via you tube or youtube.com using fire fox beta, it also can let you take notes with OI note pad and look stuff up with google now. Here is the kicker that I posted on your touch screen board, it can use Flash drives with an 5 to 8 dollar adapter that is better known as a many USB to USB 2.0 adapter.

## Post 279 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Sunday, 11-May-2014 21:05:42

But I have to use the touchscreen to use Firefox. That said, I can and do use it to play the music that I stored on it. I have one of those adapters but need to find it. In the meantime, I load things onto it by connecting it directly to my computers. For what it's worth, I also put my files on the Macbook, incase I decid to temporarily use that.

## Post 280 by forereel (Just posting.) on Sunday, 11-May-2014 22:41:09

I told you about an Asus for 199, but you delayed, so that sales off. When I see it again I'll tell you again.
11.6 iinch screen. It was touch, but you never have to use that feature. Weighed 3 LBS. It has Windows 8.1, 4 Gen processor, so battery life will be par. Bran spanking new with warrentee.
I see these for around 300 all day.
10.8 inches of screen apposed to 11.6 you won't notice at all.
Can get one built with Windows 7.
write away
, not most of the newer tin machines have the cooling vets on the side, so having it on your lapto is no problem anymore.
I have a Dell Z14, never over heats.
I pointed out, if you had technical support, or simply would take some of your computers to a good shop in your city, you'd have working machines.
What do you use to post? That computer seems to work?
Desktops are lower in price now, and 400 will get you a nice box, so no need to buy refurbished if you shop.

## Post 281 by season (the invisible soul) on Monday, 12-May-2014 3:40:42

Tif, you said yourself you use the computer for almost everything beside some few music
and audiobooks. Now, this is a question, do you seriously use your computer for most of
the thing, or, you most of the time on your computer for few thing? For me, if i'm one who
use my computer for most of the thing, which i do, i'll wanting a rather fast speed
computer, lite and new and modern, and also load with the most advance technology and
OS and softwares that i can afford to.
That is why, i spend $2000 to $2500 to get my Dell XPS1210M, and still going well and
strong after 7 years and more. I worked that computer hard, from strength to strength.
but i safe myself a hell loads of money every couple of years to chnage another system,
or looking for a backword computer.
When i bought my XPS i got laugh on, why a blind person need a gaming machine? Well,
it serves me for 7 and more years, gone through studies, work, and life with me.
But, that was the decision i made. I don't want to spend time to make things work, i want
to spend time to working on what matters, what will advance me, not spending time on
reparing one problem because of another and another, or fixing some issue because that
issue happen of some other issue that is unrelated to the first issue anyway.
No one can make the decision for you, you need to decide either to stay on the cycle of
the dark circle, or come out with the light and see reasons..

## Post 282 by forereel (Just posting.) on Monday, 12-May-2014 7:18:51

I don't have a problem with tinkering, but as the poster stated above me, when I need to get something done, I get on my most up to date computer, because as a blind person, I'm already limited, so I need all the help I can get.
I keep updated software, and as posted, the machine doesn't need replacing often, because I purchased quality at the gate.
I'd say for a blind person, a computer that works, and works well, is a necessity, and improves our quality of life greatly.
You don't need to put tones of money at this, but you do want something you can get a professional to repair, and in your case, you need in home service. These things I'd pay that extra dollars to have.
If your computer goes down for some reason, a phone call brings someone to your door within 24 hours to fix it for you.
You don't have to wait on others to get time to take you anyplace, or even help you do anything. The tech will come to you, and do what you require.
Your phone company probably have this sort of plan now.
No, the tech won't come and fix your old computers, but he or she will keep your main system running, and running right for years if you need.

## Post 283 by forereel (Just posting.) on Monday, 12-May-2014 10:24:06

The perfect model. Meets your requirements, and can run NVDA wonderfully. Forget it has a touchscreen, it is just a feature you never have to use.
eBay item number:
141281802668
HP Pavilion 10 E010NR 10 1 inch Touchscreen Laptop
AMD 1.0GHZ processor. Better than the netbooks.
2GB ram, 320GB hard drive. 2 2.0 and 1 3.0 USB ports. Microsoft 2013 home and student full version.
New. $319 with free shipping. In the US, so can be had in 4 days.
Square trade for $79 gives you 2 extra years or protection if you desire.
This is on a Monday. I could do better mid week.
See the next posting.

## Post 284 by starfly (99956) on Monday, 12-May-2014 10:29:56

Like the two posters above me said, they spent money on a high end computer because they wanted to work and last. I did the same and with with a mac and then bootcamped windows. You know what, its been about two years and this computer still kicks but and runs fast. Oh, I had 8 gigs installed via best buy so I could run windows7 and other VM ware operating OS on the mac side.

## Post 285 by forereel (Just posting.) on Monday, 12-May-2014 10:36:29

Walmart.
Buy the extended warrantee and no worries about the bran.
Acer White Touch 10.1" ICONIA W510-1849 Convertible PC with Intel Atom Dual-Core Z2760 Processor and Windows 8 Operating System
Model#: W510-1849
• Intel Atom Dual-Core Z2760 processor
• 2GB memory; 32GB internal storage
• 10.1" HD CrystalBrite LED-backlit display
• Webcams, WiFi
• Windows 8 Operating System
Acer Sleekbook Silver 11.6" V5-122P-0862 Touch Laptop PC with AMD A4-1250 Processor, 4GB Memory, 500GB Hard Drive, Touchscreen and Windows 8
• AMD A4-1250 processor
• 4GB memory; 500GB hard drive
• SD card reader, WiFi
• Windows 8
Acer Black 11.6" Aspire V5-131-10174G50akk Laptop PC with Intel Celeron 1017U Dual-Core Processor, 4GB Memory, 500GB Hard Drive and Windows 7 Home Premium
$361.95.
Amazon.
ASUS K200MA-DS01T 11.6-Inch Touchscreen Laptop (Black)
$298
• • 2.13 GHz Intel Celeron
• • 4 GB DDR3 SDRAM
• • 500 GB Serial ATA
• • Windows 8.1
Lots of these at this price

## Post 286 by forereel (Just posting.) on Monday, 12-May-2014 10:39:37

I forgotto put the third machine on this list has Windows 7. It didn't come out when I copied it for some reason.
I wasn't even trying hard, and as I say mid week, I could do better.

## Post 287 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Monday, 12-May-2014 12:55:20

PinaColada, to answer your question, basically, I use it for the following.
1. basic Wordprocessing txt/rtf).
2. surfing the net (GMail, Facebook, Wikipedia, Youtube, Weather Underground, The Zone, occasionaly extras for news, information, etc.)
3. buying things online (Iherb, Ebay, Amazon)
4. listening to music (mp3s)
5. reading books (txt, and very rarely, Kindle)
6. chatting (Skype, Facebook)
7. simple voice recording (mp3s/no editing)
8. making simple videos/no editing
9. Samnet and Klango
10. games (simple audio or text adventure)
Thank you, forereel, for the time and effort that you have put into this, and thanks to everyone else who has commented on this thread, offering advice, suggestions, etc. At any rate, I am truly impressed with your findings. The prices and sizes are excellent, and you even found one with Windows 7! It's a shame that all have touchscreens, but as you said, they can be ignored. Now, I must look at reviews and battery life of these. If that's good, then I probably will get one, due to the size/weight, and if it has 8, I can test out that system. But I've pretty much made up my mind to switch to Knoppix as my primary operating system. I have at least two people willing to help me, one who is constantly using it, and the desire to learn. Adriane seems easy enough to get me started, and I can switch into the other desktops when necessary. Plus, I can use other systems through virtual machines, and they will be kept secure.

## Post 288 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Monday, 12-May-2014 13:27:33

Tiff glad to help.
LILke the others have said,I got my system 8 years ago. Admittedly for me, i've ported desktop stuff for ages, for example my vidio card is 14 years old now.
BUt right now i'm thinking about doing that high-end gaming system and spending big money.
it'll last for a long time, and i'll be able to upgrade to the next version of winodws with ease, as the system will be able to handle it.
more or less any windows bassed system will do what you want.

## Post 289 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Monday, 12-May-2014 13:40:25

Honestly, that's what I thought, which is why I posted those specifications. I just wasn't sure how well Windows 7 would handle low powered machines, be they netbooks or ultra low voltage laptops, and what to do about the ram. That's why I was asking all of those questions earlier, and also why I kept stressing that I didn't want, didn't need, and couldn't afford to spend thousands of dollars on a machine. Now that everyone sees what I actually do with one, this should make more sense.

## Post 290 by SilverLightning (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Monday, 12-May-2014 14:15:21

Now taking bets on how long it will be before Tif is back, having made her
decision on which system to go with, asking us for more advice on this exact
same subject or one so close in subject to it that it is practically
indistinguishable. I give it two months, any takers?

## Post 291 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Monday, 12-May-2014 16:01:45

I highly doubt it. This operating system can run on pretty much any computer. So regardless of whether I get a new one or use one of my older ones, I won't have such a problem in deciding what to choose. If anything, I might be asking about various commands or ways to do things, especially since I'll be using three different interfaces (Adriane, Gnome with Orca, and the commandline). But I have two people who are knowledgeable, so if I did ask here, it would probably be general questions that most Linux users could answer.

## Post 292 by SilverLightning (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Monday, 12-May-2014 16:59:39

Sure it will Tif, sure it will. I'm sure that you'll be able to get three interfaces
to work seamlessly together. I'm not skeptical of that in the slightest. I'm not
even skeptical that you found two other people as batshit crazy as you when it
comes to computers. Not skeptical in the least.

## Post 293 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Monday, 12-May-2014 17:09:34

Ten weeks and she's back asking about some more systems.

## Post 294 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Monday, 12-May-2014 17:15:23

hahaha You don't use them all at once. Perhaps, interfaces is the wrong word. They call them desktops. I think they're similar to DOS shells, in that they work onto of the commandline to provide another interface to the operating system. Knoppix comes with several of these, including LXDE (the default), Gnome, and Adriane. Gnome is accessible through its screen reader Orca, and Adriane, of course, was designed for the blind. The difference is that the latter is a self-contained system, like on a Notetaker, while Gnome is a mainstream shell that can be used with many different programs. Knoppix itself is a very old project, and is constantly being updated. Millions of people use it, either as an actual operating system or as a bootable rescue. So either we're all crazy or, as those who use Windows, Mac, and IOS claim, it's a decent system.

## Post 295 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Monday, 12-May-2014 17:33:12

ok and how many of those millions of people frequent the sites that your gonna ask for help on?

## Post 296 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Monday, 12-May-2014 17:52:16

For general questions, I could go to a Linux-specific site or section of a site. While I do know that the documentation isn't as full as it is for DOS and Windows, it does stil exist, and I can ask my friends for help if I really get confused.

## Post 297 by starfly (99956) on Monday, 12-May-2014 19:27:56

I give her 3 weeks max two weeks at least.

## Post 298 by season (the invisible soul) on Monday, 12-May-2014 19:52:01

i give till end of this month, between 2/3 weeks.

## Post 299 by write away (The Zone's Blunt Object) on Monday, 12-May-2014 20:09:03

I'll be nice and give her six months. lol. for good measure. Because I'm generous like that. :)

## Post 300 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Monday, 12-May-2014 22:24:18

I'm agreeing with the 3 weeks.

## Post 301 by forereel (Just posting.) on Monday, 12-May-2014 22:49:32

I know that Dave a Zoner uses a different OS, but he is visual.
How do you support Knoppix with a screen reader?
I'm honestly interested in your answer.

## Post 302 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Monday, 12-May-2014 23:34:36

There are two ways that you can use Knoppix with a screen reader. One is Adriane, which is a desktop designed specifically for the blind. The other is to use the mainstream desktop, called Gnome, with a screen reader called Orca.
Here is the link that explains Adriane.
http://www.knopper.net/knoppix-adriane/index-en.html
Here is the link for Knoppix itself. It also explains some of the commands for Adriane and Orca.
http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/knoppix730-en.html
Here is the Wikipedia entry on Orca.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orca_%28assistive_technology%29

## Post 303 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Monday, 12-May-2014 23:41:44

ADRIANE for linix Reminds me of something simular to Talking Toolbox for Windows by MarvelSoft
http://www.braillebookstore.com/The-Future-of-Sound

## Post 304 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Tuesday, 13-May-2014 1:54:23

Here's the final verdict! We tried doing a factory reset on the Elitebook, but no matter what we did, even following the guide, it wouldn't work. So rather than trying to use Lee's Windows 7 Ultimate disk, we decided to turn it into a full Knoppix machine. The burn to dvd went perfectly, once we used IMG Burn. But the install to hard disk gave us a few problems, and when we booted, there was some kind of error message about the bios or something being corrupt. So we installed to flash. But low and behold, when we removed the thumb drive and rebooted, with nothing in the machine, it worked! I had Lee boot a second time like that, just to be sure, and the results were the same! So I now have a 100% functional Knoppix machine that boots directly into Adriane, so speech is always on. I am extremely happy now, and am awaiting my new arrival. We'll deal with the Thinkpad and such when the adapters come, but at least this nightmare is over. Whether I buy a new computer or not, at least I'll now have one that works!

## Post 305 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Tuesday, 13-May-2014 11:32:32

i'd be sure to have a backup of the system in case that one does fail. but glad to know you got something you are happy with! *smile*

## Post 306 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Tuesday, 13-May-2014 12:15:54

Oh, I definitely do. I have it on dvd and usb as well, and the dvd can't be changed, so unless something happens to the actual disk, it will be fine.
As for finding something that made me happy, I really am. I remember when I started out with the Mac. I was really excited, because of all of the great things that I heard about it. But being that I could only go up to Snow Leopard, I got disappointed with the less than steller results, though I did use my Macbook steadily for two years or slightly more. I was just really curious with the Android. But I haven't been this eager to learn an operating system since I first got my hands on DOS! Here, I have a choice of two different shells, with two different screen readers, plus the commandline. Everything is free or cheap, and every question that I've put to my Linux-using friends was answered positively. All are blind, so it's not like I'm asking someone fully sighted and then trying to figure out if I can do this using adaptive technology. It just works.

## Post 307 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Tuesday, 13-May-2014 12:47:37

hey tiff windows 7 and 8.1 just work too... just sayin... smile.

## Post 308 by forereel (Just posting.) on Tuesday, 13-May-2014 21:19:36

Mine do anyway.
I'd love to know when you post to one of these topic using your new computer.
Will you state you are on that machine and on the Zone?
I didn't have time to read on it today, because I was busy, but when I get some time, I'll check it out.
I also think I will give it a try so when you do post with that working machine, I'll answer with mine.
I, if it can actually work, am capable of doing this. Smile.
I have an old Dell computer that needs redoing anyway, so I'll use that machine as my source for this project.
Good luck.

## Post 309 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Wednesday, 14-May-2014 1:35:59

I certainly will state it when I'm up and running, which should be no later than the end of this week, if not sooner. Lee is shipping off the computer tomorrow, and I'm also attempting to burn it to dvd, now that I have one, so that I can try it on one of my machines here.

## Post 310 by forereel (Just posting.) on Wednesday, 14-May-2014 14:45:44

I did some reading on it. Had time today.
It looks pretty good.
It is open source, so might have problems on upgrades, but it be a total operating system with speech if you get the right one.
Has some working tools as well.
You'll need a computer with a drive that can support DVD or you'll need to have it put on a thumb drive and have these systems that are not already set to boot that way.
The one that is coming back to you should work on boot if he's set it right.
I think I'll give it a spin. I don't imagine I'll switch from Windows, but it be fun to fool around with.

## Post 311 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Wednesday, 14-May-2014 15:13:25

The latest update has only been released in a dvd version, which is 3.96gb. I can't put it on a cd, without knowing which packages can be eliminated from it and how to do it. In any case, both XP Burn and IMG Burn claimed to burn the dvd. But I think you're right. While my desktop can play dvds, it probably can't burn them. So I put the iso onto my thumb drive and am burning the dvd with my Macbook. We'll see how it goes.

## Post 312 by forereel (Just posting.) on Wednesday, 14-May-2014 21:18:10

Honey, you are a bit confused.
You'll not be able to copy files from a windows PC on to a thumb drive, put that drive in to your Macbook., and Apple computer and burn these to a DVD that will work.
If your friend has made this Windows 7 computer work, why can't he just send you a copy of the program?
Next, you can simply ask for one from one of the venders?
I don't understand why you've been trying to do this for over 3 days when your friend has the program, or you say he does?
Next, if your older PC's, and I know they don't, do not have DVD drives to play the data DVD, you can't iboot the program from the DVD even if it is the correct data type.
You'll have to boot from the thumb drive, and I've stated what you need to do to make that happen.
I'm confused honestly?

## Post 313 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Wednesday, 14-May-2014 21:30:40

The Elitebook with Knoppix on it, as well as the drive and dvd copies, was shipped out today. I've only been trying to make a temporary copy to boot from with another machine so that I can experiment with the software and learn it. But if all goes well, my computer should be here on Friday.

## Post 314 by hardyboy09 (I'm going for the prolific poster awards!) on Thursday, 15-May-2014 0:41:46

Hey, Tif,
Thought I would let you know about a laptop that my brother's girlfriend let me have, since she's not going to do anything with it. Now, I haven't had a chance to get into this machine much, but can say it at least has Windows (not sure what version, but above XP, and also features a modem connection on it. It doesn't have a serial or parallel, though it does have 4 USB ports, and a card reader. For some reason, the battery won't hold a charge, but I am looking into why this may be. Also, the speakers (on the physical laptop) do not emit sound, though this could be a simple driver update. Plus, the sound does work through the headphone jack, so. Don't know exact model, but it's a dell. Let me know if your interested, and when I find out more information, and fix some of the issues, I'll post back here. Wouldn't be asking much for it, depending what's inside but probably $180.00 or a little more.
Nathan. Will have a chance to crack into it tomorrow. Don't know if I can even figure out the password, but if I can't, I'll use auth crack.

## Post 315 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Thursday, 15-May-2014 11:52:23

I wish you luck on that. But to be honest, I could find a manufacturer or seller refurbished computer for close to that price or slightly more expensive, and still have peace of mind that it would work and not break down in the near future. But I would still like to know if you can get it working, just out of curiosity.

## Post 316 by chelslicious (like it or not, I'm gonna say what I mean. all the time.) on Thursday, 15-May-2014 21:10:25

I give Tif a little over a week, before she starts asking more questions about this system that she has wanted for so long, that she likely only has two or three people who sort of know a little about it, yet, she still will remain convinced that, if only she/they work hard enough, the system will eventually be made to her liking.

## Post 317 by forereel (Just posting.) on Thursday, 15-May-2014 21:25:24

In this case the setup seems okay, but it will have glitches.
You have to search the message boards to locate the person that has fixed the issues, and it gets updated.
How it will sound, as to the speech, and how well that speech works will be interesting.
They claim it is easy, and totally useable.
If this were the case, you'd think software that is paid for would learn from the free and get better, or even the people that develop NVDEA could make there's perfect, being it is free.
Not going to happen, but it is a nice claim they make.
Soons as I get unlazy, I'm going to give it a spin, because I'd love to see if the claims are founded.
If so, I'll get on here and tell you all you really need to ditch that mess you got and get it. Lol

## Post 318 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Thursday, 15-May-2014 21:42:57

As far as I'm concerned, NVDA is as close to perfect as possible, which is why I have been using it exclusively for about seven years now. As for my friends, one is a devoted Knoppix user and two are serious Linux users. Plus, if I honestly get confused, and neither my friends, nor message boards, nor a user's manual can help me, I can contact the designer of the os, whose wife is visually-impaired.

## Post 319 by SilverLightning (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 16-May-2014 7:07:27

That is probably the stupidest sentence it is possible for a blind person to type
without their fingers rebelling against them and choking themselves to death.
NVDA is as close to perfect as it is possible to be? Are you nuts? Ignoring the
facts that it is slow, under-detailed, has a terrible synthesizer and doesn't work
with all programs, you were just posting a board a week ago about how its not
working for you. So how can something be perfect if you can't figure out how it
bloody works? Has the meaning of the word changed since I learned what
perfect means?
But, all that aside, trust me Tif, if you ever pulled up your big girl panties and
learned to use useful technology, you'd forget all about NVDA. Voice over, and I
know this is a whole huge argument, but as far as free screen readers go, voice
over kicks its ass hands down. I don't think anyone alive is going to argue that.

## Post 320 by write away (The Zone's Blunt Object) on Friday, 16-May-2014 10:22:39

Ah. but cody. You cna get eloquence for NVDA now. that's what I use with it anyway. Dont ask me how, but there's a work-around for it. I don't know the steps for installing it, but my partner does. With eloquence, NVDA is actually halfway decent. I'll stick to my system access though.

## Post 321 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Friday, 16-May-2014 13:58:41

I didn't say it was perfect. Nothing is. I said it was as close to perfect as is possible. It's also free, and not $800, and when there's a problem, they fix it as soon as possible, not in their own sweet time. As for the synthesizer, I see no issues with it. It gets the job done and doesn't lag or have issues when speeding it up. My usual speed is around 70 or so, sometimes less. , I like the NVDA varient of ESpeak far more than the generic variety, as the former has better intonation and pronunciation. There are definitely nicer sounding synthesizers out there, but they're either not free, don't read Greek, or more often, both. I also posted to the NVDA list about getting ESpeak to read polytonic Greek, and already got a few answers from people who wish to help.
VoiceOver is also only for the Mac and IOS devices, all of which are incredibly expensive. Maybe, if they change their interface, I might consider using it. I don't want to have to interact just to have to copy text from one place to another, nor to have to use strange gestures just to get things done. Give me a clean menu interface, commands, or even the annoying gui. At least they still use the keyboard!
I have never understood people's love of Eloquence. It's okay, but especially now, when there are so many better choices out there, it doesn't make much sense. As for
System Access, I have a Samnet account, and do use SATOGO at times. It's not great but not bad either, and Samnet is downright amazing!

## Post 322 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 16-May-2014 15:18:12

Elaqueince is the easiest to understand for me. out of the other speech I've heard, I also think it sounds the most natural.
as for SAMNet, I tried it for 30 days and decided that I really didn't feel the need to pay for a service which only agragates content.
I figured out how to sw switch my NVDA to anna from MS in windows 7, in the rare time that I need it I can understand that speech better than espeak.

## Post 323 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Friday, 16-May-2014 15:39:12

Understandable, yes. But natural? I can't say I would ever put Eloquence in that category. Innoeticks, Realspeak, Microsoft Speech Platform, Infovox, and despite my gripes about OS X, Alex, are very natural in sound. Alex is actually among the best voices that I have ever heard.

## Post 324 by SilverLightning (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 16-May-2014 22:08:15

I think you're all nuts. None of them sound natural. They sound like a badly
tuned voice box. There are some that come close to replicating human speech,
like voice over for example, but not many.
And Tif, your objections were covered in my post by the clause requiring you
to pull up your big girl panties and learn to use useful technology. You're so
predictable I was able to know what you'd say before I even wrote what you
said it in response to.

## Post 325 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 16-May-2014 22:55:37

I will say i do like the voice that ships with narator in windows 8.exe Dave sounds really good in my opinion.

## Post 326 by write away (The Zone's Blunt Object) on Friday, 16-May-2014 23:34:42

I like some of the NeoSpeech voices and a few of the Ivona voices. The IOS voice is by far one of the most human-sounding voices out there, but I can't read anything lengthy with that one. I guess I'm so used to eloquence that I'm just the most comfortable with that one though.

## Post 327 by season (the invisible soul) on Saturday, 17-May-2014 2:08:30

Before Voiceover, i used Eloquence exclusively. But i always had migrain and a very bad
headache, tired, etc.
I can read most of voiceover's voices without any problem. The best voice of all i must
admit must be Alex. If anything that is "close to perfect", Alex will be the very one.

## Post 328 by forereel (Just posting.) on Saturday, 17-May-2014 16:47:17

Naw, perfect is the guy or girl sitting next to you reading your screen. Now that there is speech profection!
That program even describes pictures and such.
Panties?
Also, Tiff, IOS has a keyboard, so all can be controlled with it. You don't have to use jesters at all on a Mac.

## Post 329 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Saturday, 17-May-2014 17:07:04

haha Underwear, thanks. Yes, that is one good thing. But do you mean IOS or OS X? One good thing about the Mac is that you can save to external drives, though I heard this is possible with IOS devices as well.

## Post 330 by SilverLightning (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Saturday, 17-May-2014 17:54:02

Oh, don't get me wrong, I've used eloquence, and I probably will again in the
future, but that is out of necessity, not out of choice.
But, if you want to figure out if a voice program is natural sounding, have a
sighted person listen to it. I have yet to meet a sighted person who can
understand eloquence the first time they hear it, even at slow speeds. I have
met lots of them that can understand my IPhone.
And Tif, being able to save a file to an external drive has not been a selling
point for computers since pretty much the invention of the computer and the
external drive. They can all do it. Its not impressive. They can do it so well in
fact, that they invented ways to not have to do it anymore. You're being
impressed by a technology that we moved past a few years ago. Wake the fuck
up.

## Post 331 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Saturday, 17-May-2014 19:07:48

I wouldn't use the word impressed here. I'm glad that Apple hasn't completely lost their senses. I assumed that you could only save things in the cloud on one of those idevices, and was happy to hear that this isn't true. Regardless, I know as a fact that this ability is still available on the Mac, which is a good thing.

## Post 332 by SilverLightning (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Saturday, 17-May-2014 23:15:54

Of course it is Tif. Its still possible on iphones and ipods and ipads too if you
know how to do it and have the right gadget for it. They make all kinds of
gadgets that let you do practically everything with an I device now. You'd know
that if you took the time to actually research, rather than reading articles of
highly questionable value all the time. But you won't, so you don't.

## Post 333 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Saturday, 17-May-2014 23:34:16

i'm all for having my data in the cloud. I like the e external for local stuff, but in case something fails (and yes stuff does fail), CrashPlan or something similar is the win!

## Post 334 by forereel (Just posting.) on Sunday, 18-May-2014 9:02:03

I was the one that explained you could save content on an external device with all IO devices.
I have mixed feelings about cloud starage and on sight storage.
I don't worry about the security, because anyone looking at my junk, and that is a vary small amount, will get bored.
Depending on how you have your cloud service setup, you don't always have to go to it to retrieve files, but if your iinternet happens to be down, and you have all your music in the cloud, you have to wait until it comes back to listen.
I do a mix of both, because that internet will go sometimes.
But, there is nothing that beats the cloud for saving space, say on your iPhone. You can buy the 16GB model and access 400GB of content no problem, and that is great. No worries about how much storage your device has.

## Post 335 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Sunday, 18-May-2014 12:04:02

You don't need to worry about internal storage with an external card or drive either. Just keep your essentials in the phone/device and keep that, plus the files that you don't need daily, on your external drive.

## Post 336 by SilverLightning (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 18-May-2014 13:05:09

Yes, but not all of us enjoy having to plug in drives every time. Not to mention
forgetting what drive a specific file or folder is on. Keep in mind, not all of us
restrict ourselves to the bare minimum of storage as you seem to. My music
folder alone would take up more storage than you've probably ever had access
to. Storing it all on flash drives would be astronomically time consuming and
space consuming.

## Post 337 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 18-May-2014 13:06:52

i say e get a 3TB drive or even a 5 if you can afford it. you wont ru out of space for a while with something that large? lol

## Post 338 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Sunday, 18-May-2014 13:18:29

My thumb drive, flash drive, and compact flash cards (even with adapters) can all fit in my pocket, and all together. So they don't take up space. As for a 3-5tb drive, I couldn't fill that up if I lived three lifetimes! haha

## Post 339 by forereel (Just posting.) on Sunday, 18-May-2014 20:12:15

Love big drives.
The problem however is if you've only got one, and that bad boy get a hang and stops working.
These girls with cloud services have deep pockets, so keep lots on hand so you never worry.
Me, I can do with 2 small USB thumb drives for all the stuff I keep, but I'm not everybody.
I've got a 32GB drive with music on it that isn't full at all.
The reason for that, is I have Rhapsody, and they keep my music collection nice and tiddy.
I've got, what, 9 millions tracks? Or is that artist?
All teasing aside, I've keep a service like this for years, and I've come to enjoy it. I keep some music for when the nets down.
The rest of the stuff, like documents and whatever, once I use it, I ditch it.
I don't keep my life records on my computer.

## Post 340 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 18-May-2014 20:34:54

i back up my drivesto the c cloud, so no problems there.

## Post 341 by starfly (99956) on Sunday, 18-May-2014 21:44:21

I have about 4 hard drives 1 1 TB another 4 TB and two 500 gig drives. My
dropbox is about 72 gigs of cloud storage. See tiff if you would let someone
knock some of that hard headi adatute toward the cloud dropbox would work
with you and that nexus7 of yours. Android integrates with dropbox quite well
and you can move files back and forth from device to drop box.

## Post 342 by season (the invisible soul) on Sunday, 18-May-2014 21:53:22

not sure if anyone realize that usb drives can also get virus. In fact, some of the virus can
get from one computer to another simply by sharing the same thumb drive, flash drive, or
whatever drive that one have.. Just saying...

## Post 343 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Monday, 19-May-2014 2:45:58

Getting back to the topic at hand, I have decided to get an ultraportable. While I will be keeping my Elitebook for now, for Linux experiments, which I will be documenting in the appropriate thread, it's a good laptop, not the kind that I want to take outside with me, to expose to the elements, dust, possibly dirty fingers from snacks, etc. I considered several of the Thinkpad x models, including 201s, 300, 61s and 61. The 220, 120E, and 220 all looked good, but were too heavy for what I'm seeking. Regardless, I either couldn't find the models or they were the tablet versions. But I did find a nice X60 with Windows 7, 4gb of ram, and an actual disk for reinstallation!
At any rate, I switched back to netbooks, and narrowed things down to the Asus 1025CE, 1025C, and X101CH, though the latter only as a last resort. I actually found several of those. As when I did my earlier search. Again, as earlier, I found one 1025C, but it only had 1gb ram (not the full 2gb) and the 2600ghz, rather than the 2800ghz processor. It was running Windows 7 Professional, which I've heard works better with a minimum of 2gb. Still, it, and even the X101CH, received fairly good reviews, and the two higher end models were able to handle Youtube and my other daily tasks. What really stood out for me about all three was the long battery life, though it was more pronounced in the 2600ghz configuration. The sacrifice there, of course, is speed. But all run cool and are practically noiseless. Despite my aversion to Acer, due to my previous experiences, I read about the Aspire One D270, and it had fairly positive reviews. It has a 2600 processor, so I am imagining the performance is similar to the Asus models. I found three with 2gb of ram, Two had Windows 7 Starter, and were under $180, with one being refurbished by a certified technician!
Finally, I reexamined the Asus 1015E, which, I discovered, also comes in a nontouch configuration. This was released last year. It has a 10.1 inch screen and weighs 2.7 lb., so is the same weight and size as a netbook. But it uses an Intel Celeron 847 and not an atom processor, and always has at least 2gb of ram, so is much faster and can definitely handle the kinds of things that I will be doing with it. The only bad things that I can find are that the fan can be noisy at times, it can get a bit hot, though not truly uncomfortable, and the battery life isn't as good as the netbooks. But all of these issues are due to the more powerful processor. Almost all 1015Es come with Windows 8, but I found one with Windows 7. The problem is that it's in Canada, and could take from one to two weeks to get here! So I have written some questions about 7 and 8, which I will post in a separate thread. Hopefully, the answers will help me decide what to do and which of these to get. It will be as much of a relief to me as to you. *smile* If nothing else, at least I have four machines from which to choose, instead of 400!

## Post 344 by write away (The Zone's Blunt Object) on Monday, 19-May-2014 9:12:37

I find it horrible that you'd even consider using your dirty fingers from a snack on your computer. that's just unsanitary. I get that we all eat snacks in some close proximity to some of our technology, but I always take care to touch my phone, computer, and braille sense *that one being especially crucial* with clean hands, always. I navigate the keyboard with one hand if I have to, and the piece of tech I'm working with is always far and to the side, where it will avoid getting crumbs or other things dropped on it. That said, I rarely ever eat or drink in front of my computer.
You're saying that you're buying an ultraportable machine, for probably a large amount of money in terms of your view, just so you can expose it to dust and nasty, food covered fingers?
Ewwwwww, here's a better idea. Eat your food AWAY from your computer. and close the laptop, with clean hands, before you get nasty stuff stuck under your keys and then complain about how your keyboard is malfunctioning. It's quite obvious. I thought everyone knew this:
1. computers don't go on laps, covered with cloth or not. ever.
2. computers and food dont' mix, don't expose your electronics to those elements. Ever.
Those are both things you've expressed you plan to do with your new (or old) machine. I'm sad to see you'd actually spend money on something--you, being a cheap skate and all--and then abuse it so.
Clean your hands, dammit. lol. And stop eating in front of your computer, or you might as well just go dumpster-diving for your next laptop. Yeah. Get a nice Acer with a smidge of chocolate stuck onto the side. with salmon juice all over the keyboard. With vanilla coke spilled across the screen. and coffee too. Ewwwwwwwwwwww!!!!

## Post 345 by chelslicious (like it or not, I'm gonna say what I mean. all the time.) on Monday, 19-May-2014 11:10:18

no wonder the OP's machines eventually all malfunction. how ridiculous can you be to touch technology with dirty hands? un-fucking believable!

## Post 346 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Monday, 19-May-2014 11:39:06

*sigh* The fingers were just an example. I don't go sticking my hands in bowls of food and rubbing them on machines. But there may be times when I eat something, and even though I've wiped my hands on a towel, something might still get on the keyboard. That said, I am extremely careful with my Model M, so it isn't as if I don't know how to be sanitary. I also carry an organic hand sanitiser with me when I go out with family or friends, just incase of emergencies. That said, there have also been times when I was extremely careful not to get anything on a computer, but because I was outside, dust and whatnot got on it. It's always windy on my balcony. I hope that clears this up.
As for putting a computer on my lap, yes. These are ultraportables and are meant for that purpose. But as I said earlier, I do intend on getting a stand for the computer to help the air flow.

## Post 347 by forereel (Just posting.) on Monday, 19-May-2014 21:08:30

I've had my Dell Z14 over 2 years, and I eat, drink, all the time.
I rest it on my lap outside even when it's windy.
Now I don't waste drink on it, and I keep a napkin handy to wipe my hands before I continue with my naughty cyber chats, but still I eat!
Especially when I'm Zoning, some snacks are handy.
Now food on the screen? That's just sloppy eating.
In fact I'm drinking right nor as I type this. I'm not on my laptop, but have my wireless keyboard on my lap, and that one I've had almost 3 years, and it's been wiped many times.
The desktop tower is in a vented cubbyhole on my desk, and the monitor sits on top, off, and I never touch it unless I'm dusting it, or turning it off after my sighted gust leave.
So the only thing exposed to my nasty habits is my mighty Logitech 710!
So, yeah!

## Post 348 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Monday, 19-May-2014 21:24:47

hahaha I can't say I've ever gotten food or drink on a screen. But one time, I did spill coffee into a desktop keyboard that I really liked. It had all sorts of buttons for getting to things. But that was the worst that ever happened. But much of the dirt, dust, etc. on my machines comes from just being outside with me.

## Post 349 by forereel (Just posting.) on Monday, 19-May-2014 21:39:38

Ah, yes, I'll confess, that coffee ruined a wonderful Microsoft Keyboard I had.
I was arguing with someone and forgot to close the spill proff top. Slapped the desk to make a point, knocked over the hot java, and it simply fried the workings.
First and last time, but still?

## Post 350 by write away (The Zone's Blunt Object) on Tuesday, 20-May-2014 1:00:49

Put the snacks away wayne. and stop arguing with people lest you spill more coffee.
hahahahaha Grins.

## Post 351 by forereel (Just posting.) on Tuesday, 20-May-2014 11:05:17

Just had too.
This system is in Totowa, New Jersey, United States
Voodublu via eBay offers the factory-refurbished, 3-lb. ASUS Intel Ivy Bridge Celeron 1.5GHz 11.6" Touchscreen Laptop, model no. X200CA-HCL1104G, for $199.99 with free shipping. It features an Intel Ivy Bridge Celeron 1007U 1.5GHz dual-core processor, 11.6" 1366x768 LED-backlit touchsreen LCD, 4GB RAM, 320GB hard drive, 802.11n wireless, Bluetooth, webcam, 3-cell battery, and Windows 8 64-bit. An ASUS 90-day warranty applies.
Square tread will give you 2 additional years for $49.
This one is factory done.
Yeah!
Saw a brand new one for this price. Gonna post that bad girl toowhen I see it again.
China? Nope!

## Post 352 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Tuesday, 20-May-2014 13:30:37

I'm glad that this is in New Jersey, but other than that and the price, I'm really not impressed. The battery life is terrible, at only 3.5 hours. It can also freeze up and get quite hot at times. The rest of the complaints in this review were visual, so don't effect me.
http://www.trustedreviews.com/asus-x200ca_Laptop_review_performance-heat-noise-and_Page-2
This review is more positive, but still puts the battery life at only 4.2 hours. All of the machines that I have chosen can go for a minimum of six hours, sometimes ten or more, and while it may bring the weight up on a few of them, due to larger batteries, they weigh less than this model in their base configurations, so it's not a problem.
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/laptops/387484/asus-vivobook-x200ca
As for China, if that was my only concern, then I would dfinitely get a modern Thinkpad. Lenovo is returning production to Japan! *smile*

## Post 353 by forereel (Just posting.) on Tuesday, 20-May-2014 19:28:26

Not that China's the problem, the shipping time.
Also, I'd bet you serious money these machines battery life won't be as advertised.
This ones more realistic.
Next, how often do you sit outside for 10 hours, or even use a computer at one stretch for that long?
Last, if you get your computer in the mail and after 30 days it stops working, you own a boxes that doesn't work.

## Post 354 by forereel (Just posting.) on Tuesday, 20-May-2014 19:31:35

Also I forgot to say. On any product I've ever ordered, some one will post a negitive review. If I looked at the machines you are after, I'll bet I can find these as well.

## Post 355 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Tuesday, 20-May-2014 21:19:52

I posted this in the wrong thread, but of course, The Zone still won't let us delete our own posts. As I said there, I must not be the only one in the stone age. Anyway, it belongs here, so that those following this thread know how it finally ended.
I bought the Asus 1015E, for $200, plus $6 shipping, on Amazon. It was used for one day by the seller, who didn't like Windows 8, and got a 7 machine. So at least I now have a small, portable, and light machine. It's not as small as an actual notetaker, but it's mainstream, so far more powerful, and can be used with regular Windows programs. Plus, the processor is about three times better than that on a netbook. So I'm happy.
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Post a reply.
If, as you say, it doesn't work after 30 days (which I sincerely doubt), I will still have my Thinkpad X60, which will be running 7. So either way, things will work out.

## Post 356 by Eleni21 (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Friday, 23-May-2014 20:50:04

Last night, I found a computer on the blind bargains website. It was under $150 with free shipping and they said it was in decent but used condition. So I went to Dell to read the specifications, and they're not bad at all.
http://www.dell.com/us/dfb/p/optiplex-745/pd
It has serial and parallel ports built-in, as well as 3.5 and 5.25 bays. But they recommended this machine.
http://www.dell.com/us/dfb/p/optiplex-7010/pd
Considering that they offer a license for Windows 8, I'm imagining that this is fairly modern. But if I get the correct configuration, it, like the previous model, includes both serial and parallel, plus 3.5 and 5.25 bays! It didn't say anything about a dialup modem, but that should be an easy fix. In any case, on Windows, I only use that as a backup, and don't regularly use floppies.
I found one of these latter machines on Ebay for under $400, with a 3.2ghz processor, 4gb ram, and a 80gb hard drive. But Windows was not installed on it. I then found another, in excellent condition, under $500, with a 3.40ghz processor, 4gb ram, a 500gb hard drive, and Windows 7 installed. Dell says that they make these in mini tower, small form factor, and ultra-small form factor. I'm not sure what the difference is between the last two looks wise. Of course, I want my desktop to be more powerful than my laptops, and I consider this to be a serious investment, as I would like it to last for at least five years (preferably ten). But considering my computer usage (which I don't see changing any time in the near or distant future), do I really need all of this power and speed? The only extra things that I would do with a desktop are printing, translating things into braille and embossing them (for personal use/not professionally), and ocr scanning. So is it worth the extra cost to get the newer machine?