# Independent Living Training Centers (NOT NFD VERSIS ACB)

Category: Daily Living

## Post 1 by OceanDream (An Ocean of Thoughts) on Thursday, 11-Oct-2012 12:19:39

OK. first of all, I'd just like to point out right here and now that I'm not asking who runs the best training centers, or the worst for that matter. I've seen quite enough of those types of debates, and I'm sure I'll see more still. You're obviously welcome to post those opinions here if you want, but I will ignore all NFB VS. ACB training center arguments unless you have a better reason than just who runs them.
I'm mainly starting this topic to ask about the general experience at training centers, specifically. I'm seriously considering going to one, and while I definitely have one in mind, I just have a few main questions that always seem to pop up in my head:
1. Making exceptions: I know some programs are very much designed for the individual student, and there aren't really any strict rules as to who must participate in what class. other programs seem to exhibit a lot more of the "one size fits all" method. My question is this: Is there such a thing as too flexible? Or not flexible enough?
2. Treatment and discipline: Don't worry. I'm not expecting any training program to be a walk in the park, but I'm not going to bootcamp, either. I expect to be pushed; not beaten down and belittled for every minor mistake I make, or don't make. Where do you draw the line between being pushed to stretch your limits, and simply being condescended to?
3. Aditude: I definitely understand that having a positive aditude is an absolute must to get the most out of training. That being said, I'm looking to improve my skills; not my outlook on life, or my views on really any subject other than independence and blindness. I can accept that instructors will try to work on someone's aditude if they have a mind set that will inhibit them from improving their skills, so I can understand needing to keep one's aditude in check. But if I needed help with my personality, I would go see a psychologist. Where do you think trying to improve the overall experience of a student turns into an outright personality makeover?
4. Finally, program length: On average, I've noticed that most programs seem to be somewhere between 6 to 9 months, but I know in some cases, a student can graduate early, or stay longer, depending on individual needs. I also would think that leaving too early, of course, would make for a very incomplete experience. Likewise, leaving too late would really make the program drag on, which could, in theory, start to undo all the hard work over the course of the training. Where do you think a reasonable time extention turns into hopelessly dragging out the training period? Also, do you think there's a reason to be able to graduate early, provided the student in question has, by definition, completed all program requirements?
I know the answer to these questions really depends on the center, the student, and the circumstances in general, and that if I do go to a training center, I'll really just need to roll with the punches, so to speak. No pain, no gain. But this should only be true within reason. I just want to get a general feel for where people draw the line between a highly intense, yet affective training session, and getting unnecessarily overworked. Ultimately, that question is up to me to answer, but sometimes it's hard to know just how affective something is until after it's over, and you've had the chance to reflect back on it. I'm sure most of us who grew up in half decent homes can agree there's some rule, at some point, that our parents enforced that we hated then, but are more than thankful for now. the same concept applies here, except I'm not a kid anymore, and I understand I may not be thankful for a lot of the training sessions while they're happening, and I wouldn't want to demand an easier session if I'm only going to wish I'd accepted the original challenge after the fact. At the same time, I'm not one to let myself get pushed around, either. I'm approaching this with an open mind. I mentioned not allowing an aditude makeover to be part of my training, which I most definitely am not, but I also know that my aditude towards certain things, or maybe even people, may change as I'm exposed to new experiences and new ways of doing things. I'm OK with this. But I'm coming here to learn; to meet new people; to try new things, and yes, to be pushed to meet my highest potential. I want to grow as the person I am already; not to become a new person entirely.

## Post 2 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Thursday, 11-Oct-2012 13:23:42

I've never been to one of these but your questions sound a lot like questions people ask who go to any number of other lockdown or semi-lockdown treatment or rehab facilities and I have the folowing to offer, which is what I've told other people:
First, before I address your questions, let me ask why you believe you need to go to another state and another location to acquire this training? Why get locked into a nine-month program with no certification that you can use later on? Many states have nonprofit organizations, not just the state, which can assist specifically with skills for the blind.
Personally I wish more people would ask these types of questions before committing themselves, and that more people would understand the danger in taking off to an unknown unfamiliar location to be placed 'under guard' as it were, of course 'for your own good'. Stop and think carefully about this. There is a reason some of us relatives and friends of people who go get shut up in rehab facilities, will pledge to go get them out of there with a police civil standby if they give us a call and an agreed-upon signal, no questions asked.
Now for your questions, and again, I can't relate it to a blind center just these types of places in general. Think carefully though, on whether or not you really need to be locked into a program like that.
1. Making exceptions: I know some programs are very much designed for the individual student, and there aren't really any strict rules as to who must participate in what class. other programs seem to exhibit a lot more of the "one size fits all" method. My question is this: Is there such a thing as too flexible? Or not flexible enough?
** I am not an instructor but answering things in sort of the spirit of it, you're attending a training. So, presumably there are requirements that are to be met, all of which should be clearly and concisely communicated to you ahead of time. Ahead of time means before you sign a single piece of paper, long before you ever arrive at the center.
2. Treatment and discipline: Don't worry. I'm not expecting any training program to be a walk in the park, but I'm not going to bootcamp, either. I expect to be pushed; not beaten down and belittled for every minor mistake I make, or don't make. Where do you draw the line between being pushed to stretch your limits, and simply being condescended to?
** When you're in class, your time would belong to them. However, do not, I repeat do not, ever, enroll in any facility where they control your time when you are not on duty. When you're in their class, you're in class. But when class is dismissed, they should have absolutely no power over you. Since you are an adult you can get that information ahead of time. The only exception to that kind of rule ever would be for the mentally disturbed or severely drug addicted who have to be controlled. Not for young bright people like you wanting to gain some training.
3. Aditude: I definitely understand that having a positive aditude is an absolute must to get the most out of training. That being said, I'm looking to improve my skills; not my outlook on life, or my views on really any subject other than independence and blindness. I can accept that instructors will try to work on someone's aditude if they have a mind set that will inhibit them from improving their skills, so I can understand needing to keep one's aditude in check. But if I needed help with my personality, I would go see a psychologist. Where do you think trying to improve the overall experience of a student turns into an outright personality makeover?
** Attitude? Personality Makeover? Sounds an awful lot like the religion-based treatment facilities out here who are now either fallow land or parking lots, with a hearty good riddance from the rest of us unwitting taxpayers who sponsored them.
They're there to teach, not to preach, so you don't need to have any attitude about a cane or a dog, it's a tool and you just need to learn how to use it. Attitude and other religious types of things is just a control mechanism anyway: anyone can say anything about it at any time and nobody can give evidence for or against. So I would steer clear of anything that resembles attitudinal or personal development types of things. The latter part of the 20th century is replete with scandalous incidents from so-called attitude development or personal development facilities. The curriculum should be skills-based and measurable, not some spongy attitude religion thing which is just a power trip for the otherwise incompetent.
4. Finally, program length: On average, I've noticed that most programs seem to be somewhere between 6 to 9 months, but I know in some cases, a student can graduate early, or stay longer, depending on individual needs. I also would think that leaving too early, of course, would make for a very incomplete experience. Likewise, leaving too late would really make the program drag on, which could, in theory, start to undo all the hard work over the course of the training. Where do you think a reasonable time extention turns into hopelessly dragging out the training period? Also, do you think there's a reason to be able to graduate early, provided the student in question has, by definition, completed all program requirements?
** Ask yourself how long does it really take to learn the skills you want to learn? You're never given full proficiency in any training program of any sort: that comes later with practice. Doesn't matter the skill whether it's survival skills, blind skills, first response skills or what have you. At your age, 9 months is an awfully long time to not get any form of certification that you can use elsewhere. These are things to think about.
All I will add is never go someplace like that without a back out plan. First rule of survival is always have a plan B, something the nieces and daughter have heard enough from me I probably sound like a broken record at times.
A plan B in this instance is probably going to be a human who can come get you at a moment's notice should you find yourself in a compromising situation. Either that or put money away at a moment's notice so you can call a cab, get to the airport or train station, and get out. You're not "under them," as these types of places are wont to claim: you are in partnership if you choose to be.
Oh, and never sign over any rights to your personal property: compromises to personal property rights is the first line of offense by anyone wanting to control another human being, be it a wife-beater, a institution or a coup.
Look around in your local area and see if there aren't any independent living centers there: I know Portland has one, and many states have what they call a Lighthouse. At least the Independent Living Resources in Portland can assist people who have just lost sight, or lost limbs or any number of other challenges, but I don't know how common that is.
And speaking from the perspective of a blind guy now, you'd rather get yor mobility help in an area you actually know, an area where you will actually use it. If you go to another city and go with their program for nine months, now you need to learn your local area once you get back. That doesn't seem that sensible a solution for the money you or someone will spend to get you across continent, boarded in a facility, and then back again.
Just my thoughts: not having been to one of those places, but having nieces your age and having seen what happens to people in various facility types / seen them take the wrecking ball to some places. The latter I observed with pleasure.
You just control your own situation with your survival in mind, and never buy into this so-called 'being under them' sort of thinking. If you are too vulnerable at the time to do that, I'd say don't go in that particular red light district.

## Post 3 by OceanDream (An Ocean of Thoughts) on Thursday, 11-Oct-2012 15:43:09

thanks for that post, leo. The reason I was considering an out of state center is because I've met people who have been through their training program. though all of them had a few minor complaints about individual instructors, they all recommended the center in general. I've met two of these people in person, both of whom came to visit me, in a place they had never been to before. Both seemed to have no problem getting around despite the fact they didn't know this area from a hole in the ground. Route training is great, but if there is a program that teaches students to travel independently in new places nearly as well as in familiar ones, why couldn't I do the same?
when I was living in Canada, I had instructors come to my area and work with me one on one. Though this took a lot of time and self-advication, it was well worth the struggle. I learned more in the two days my instructor spent with me than I had in years, at least in terms of daily living skills. i also know that sending instructors to work with individual people is probably more expensive in the long run then sending a bunch of people to one central location. if this is the case, I wouldn't be surprised if this is the reason for state services to push these centers on their clients. As far as the national centers are concerned, I have yet to meet someone who discourages attending. Having said that, I've heard others say that seeking local, individual training in their area was more than enough for them to get what they needed. I'm just a point in my life where I'm not doing much, and if there was a perfect time for change, it would be now. Apart from a social life, I wouldn't be leaving a whole lot behind by attending the center. Even if I was, it would only be temporary. I most certainly don't want to put my life on hold for a year if it's not going to be worth my while, though. I won't be surprised if I have a few friends who will be surprised, maybe even confused that I posted this topic, but I'm really getting tired of my life riding on a stationary bike. I'm ready to start moving forward. if this is going to help me accomplish that, then I say, bring it on. But if not, then I'd rather go find something that will.

## Post 4 by forereel (Just posting.) on Thursday, 11-Oct-2012 18:12:56

Leo has some strong points. Here is my question.
I understand these training centers do and have helped some people, but I also know some people that come from them and still need training.
I also have never been to a center or any type of training for the blind. As a child all I required was given me as a dourse of school, or at home.
Now, depending on what you want to learn, isn't it really the best place to learn in the place you live? You are at home, you know your things, you are comfortable in your place, and the instructor comes to you, so you set your rules.
You want to learn, have you just simply tried?
Example, you want to bake a chicken. You get the makings, you get a friend to help you label your oven, or even the utilities company so you can find 350. You simply try to do it. If you don't do it good, you soon will if you practice it.
Mobility needs a helper, but cooking, cleaning, daily life just needs living and you decide that you're going to mess up, make mistakes, but you make that your something to do other than your bike.
That computer you've got is your power center, and you can get lots of information on how to, iron a shirt?
You also have another tool, your strong mind. Imagine what the project is you are wanting to do and get to it.
Last rehab if you fix your program correctly gives what is called home training. Home training allows you to learn at your pace.
Now you are home and your time is your time and how many months it takes depends on what you are learning. Some stuff you'll learn today, other stuff will take some time, but the clock is the one on the wall.
Just an idea.

## Post 5 by chelslicious (like it or not, I'm gonna say what I mean. all the time.) on Thursday, 11-Oct-2012 18:39:55

as one who has met Jess personally, and gone to a training center that wasn't state affiliated, although I personally wouldn't immediately recommend state centers for anyone, all I can say, is, at the end of the day, one has to do what he/she feels is best for them.
and, yes, Jess is right. contrary to this belief that some people still need training after having gone to every single center in existence, that's far from true. it all depends on the center/the methods used.

## Post 6 by forereel (Just posting.) on Thursday, 11-Oct-2012 18:46:55

No not ever center. They went to one and still needed training. In most cases you can't fault the center but the student as far as the people I knew. Success is what you decide it will be.

## Post 7 by OceanDream (An Ocean of Thoughts) on Friday, 12-Oct-2012 11:12:30

I most certainly wouldn't consider myself to be completely dependent on others. I live with two roommates, and we share the work fairly equally, in my opinion. I'm not currently employed, but I do a lot of housework and travel around the neighborhood, usually with the roommates, but occasionally without. In any event, I have not had to rely on a sighted guide since I've been here, in this area. Oddly enough, the moment I started becoming a lot more self-reliant was about when I started considering a training center. My skills are already there, for the most part. Imagine how much I could improve them.
To the people advicating home training, I definitely get where you're coming from. I've had home training before, and loved it. My only concern there is what if I move away from here? I don't currently plan to, but in my situation, it's possible that I might. So while home training can get me right where I need to be here, I'd have to train again if/when I move. I don't want that if there are better options available.

## Post 8 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Friday, 12-Oct-2012 13:09:04

You'll have to decide what you want out of the place.
It sounds like you are as competent as many people, blind or sighted, and this may shock you / a lot of the Zone population, far more competent than a lot of sighted people. It's nobody's business but yours as to whether you "need more training" for your own personal skills for doing things at home, survival, home repairs or whatever.
Some of this talk really does sound like the Bureau of Indian Relations of the late 19th and early 20th century, except replace Indian with blind, and civilized to skills or whatever words and turds people come up with for describing getting the laundry or the cooking done.
Honestly? Nobody knows everything, blind or sighted. Look at it like this: you got yourself here. You do all those things, for one reason: you did it to yourself. That means you can do it to and for yourself when the next type of new thing comes up. If someone working at an institution tells you, as someone who already has worked and gets around and the like, that you need mor training, ask yourself what they're selling.
Everyone could use learning new things: My home repairs skills are crudimentary at best. But when something new comes along you figure it out.
I'm not saying don't go but just saying consider what you really are looking for, and is an institution what you really want. Especially in light of the fact you're already independent. Plus, going out on a limb here, from your posts you appear to me to be rather a free spirit. As a free spirit, it's my judgment you would not be happy being shut up in a program or facility like that. You'd grin and bear it better if the results were going to amaze you, like you had a certification you could use to better your financial situation with or something.

## Post 9 by Runner229 (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 12-Oct-2012 17:35:36

I completely agree with what you said Leo. That's why I believe if you are going to a training center for the blind, don't go in expecting to learn everything it takes to be an independent, self-sufficient blind person.
A big part of being able to take care of yourself is having the ability to problem solve, and knowing when and how to ask questions. The training center I went to weighed heavy emphasis on this philosophy. I've found that regardless of how long you are there, and how much you learn, it all comes down to this idea.
When reading about how people not getting everything out of the training center they went to, there are two thoughts that came to mind. Either a: the student may not have taken his/her training seriously, or b: the center did not go by this philosophy. The responsibility is on the student to learn the methods and thought processes of the center, while at the same time, the philosophy of the center should be taken in to serious consideration. Fortunately, I was able to talk with the director of the Louisiana Center beforehand, and the philosophy that she explained sounded most appropriate to what I wanted to gain from training.
Finally, the thing with training one should realize is that what will work for one person may not work for you. Fortunately there are more than one, if not multiple ways, of doing something. If an instructor says that you should cook a hamburger for about the same amount of time on each side, for example, that does not mean it is the one and only way you could cook the burger. Training is a good time to experiment and see what works best for you. While some instructors do go by the "my way or the highway" philosophy, that is certainly not the case and does not have to be the way for you.

## Post 10 by forereel (Just posting.) on Friday, 12-Oct-2012 18:31:21

So if you are already getting out and have time on your hands so to speak why not go places you've not been?
You probably like to shop, so when it is time to get your food, go get it. If you feel you are a reasonable traveler around your neighborhood, than try something a little more difficult. Add to this as you go along.
The trick to knowing where you are in a strange place is researching it before you go.
Example. I want to go down to 2nd and Reed street. I've not been there. I call the bus company and get directions. Go get on the number bus and get off at my stop. Now I need to locate the place. I've called them before and ask them to say where they are in relation to where the bus drops me.
If there are good side walks and all you've walked on one before. You've crossed a few streets before, so just do that. If you get in a situation you feel the street is to busy ask the next person you hear to help you cross. If its a busy place someone will come along. Patients is the key. If no one comes along call the place you want to go and ask for a hand.
You keep that up pretty soon you've built confidents and can go anyplace you like in reason. Some areas are just difficult and not accessible, so take a taxi. Smile.
I've even gone to different cities. Some times the people I've visited didn't travel or know there area. I research how I'm going to get to them. Once I'm there I take a walk every day and add a little more on that walk. I keep land marks so I can go back to where I was. That is where that imagining comes in.
Mobility needs a hand to start out, but you've already started, so continue.

## Post 11 by ProudAFL-CIOLaborUnionGirl (Account disabled) on Friday, 08-Mar-2013 19:49:40

Exactly, and do you realize how much these places cost tax payers? If you don't need it, don't just go for the fun of it and waste tax payer money!