# disabilities and reincarnation

Category: Let's talk

## Post 1 by wonderwoman (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Wednesday, 27-Oct-2004 20:13:38

Hi all,
well, I was thinking about this earlier, and this post was almost shot down on e-pals, so I'm taking the risk posting it here. I don't believe in reincarnation, but I'm one who finds things like this interesting, even if I don't believe in it as a reality.I was just wondering what it would be like, and what we would be like if we were reincarnated as someone else in the next life, and we had no disabilities, or were sighted in the next life, with nomemories of what our previous life was like. Would we be the ones then, asking other blind strange questions, and would we treatother disabled peoplethe same way as we are sometimes treated? I get these strange thoughts from time to time, lol,
wonderwoman

## Post 2 by alison (my ISP would be out of business if it wasn't for this haven I live at) on Wednesday, 27-Oct-2004 21:19:36

well, wonderwoman...if we did reappear in someone else's form, and were...undisabled, (lol), and had no memory of our past life...then i would say probably yes, because we did not know what it would be like to be blind, in a wheel chair, etc.

## Post 3 by Emailaddressthief (the Zone BBS remains forever my home page) on Wednesday, 27-Oct-2004 21:32:33

I agree with alison. if we came back as someone else and had no memory of our past life then it would be like we were living for the first time. We wouldn't know what it's like to have a disability because we don't know we've experianced it. Or perhapes we will come back with a disability that we didn't have before and wouldn't know what it's like to not have that disability.

## Post 4 by wonderwoman (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Thursday, 28-Oct-2004 0:56:09

Hi Alison and bug,
that's sort of along the lines of what I was thinking. It would be like having the shoe in the other foot. Then other blind people would be talking about us, and it would be the reverse. This actual topic was what gave me the idea for the story I started on e-pals. It's set 60 years in the future, and it's about a woman, a sighted woman who has a bad attitude towards blind people, until she has flashbacks of a past life in which she was blind. Her flashbacks take place in the past, or rather, in 2004, which is the present for us.
wonderwoman

## Post 5 by lawlord (I'm going for the prolific poster awards!) on Thursday, 28-Oct-2004 4:11:14

Indeed, it is an interesting topic. You should do a search on google about what the former England football (Soccer) manager, and former Tottenham player and manager, Glenn Hoddle, said about people with disabilities and reincarnation. To paraphrase, as a believer in reincarnation he said that the reasons we have the disabilities we do are because of sins in a past life. He had to resign as England manager after his comments. if they are true, though, I presume that the sins would have a cumulative effect i.e. that the sins we committed in a past life would be added on to the sins we committed in the present, so that when we came back for the third bite of the cherry as it were, we'd be worse even than we were in the second. Of course, the natural corollary to that is this: say in life A you're a sinner, but in life B you attone for your sins to the greatest extent possible. One would expect that in life C, your good works would be recognised and you'd enjoy more advantages in this life. If, then, you had flashbacks of life A and life B in life C, you'd be able to learn from the mistakes you made in lives A and B and therefore bear a much more fruitful existence in life C. i believe that certain religions formulate the path to Navana in this way. I don't believe in it myself, but if Glenn Hoddle is right, then it makes some sort of sense. I hope this is interesting.

## Post 6 by Godzilla-On-Toast (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Thursday, 28-Oct-2004 6:03:18

I really don't care for this idea that I'm blind because I'm being punished for a past life that I'm not even aware of. Why ask why when there's really no answer except for I'm here now no matter why. It seems to be a rather cruel thing to say to a blind or disabled person, no matter how good the intentions are. But as you know, I don't put much stock in good intent these days.

## Post 7 by lawlord (I'm going for the prolific poster awards!) on Thursday, 28-Oct-2004 6:27:37

I should have made my meaning plainer for which I apologise: I don't agree with it either, and if you'd been around in britain in about 1999 when Hoddle made these comments you'd have noticed that most of the country thought the idea extremely distasteful. I have to concede though that it's an interesting angle to have on things, and if we are honest with ourselves, just as possible as any othe rdoctrines about the afterlife, heaven and hell, or any other theories that attach to your chosen faith if any.

## Post 8 by Goblin (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Thursday, 28-Oct-2004 11:50:42

Wonder I think you have answered your on question if we were unfamiliar with any disability how then could we be expected to know the right questions to ask.

## Post 9 by Japanimangel (Account disabled) on Thursday, 28-Oct-2004 12:41:48

wow, this is a really intense poast. I don't know if we would be aware of what had happened in our past life if we were reincarnated, but I don't really think about it. As someone else said earlier on this post, I am blind and I am here and thats all that matters. I was brought up to look at blindness as a gift and not a burden althogh sometimes u look at it that way. I use it as the gift to get in to people's faces and to their minds, and hopefully open up their minds a bit more toward people with disabilities. I hope that the manager's theories aren't true though, and we don't come back worse off than we are now.

## Post 10 by Goblin (I have proven to myself and the world that I need mental help) on Thursday, 28-Oct-2004 13:54:50

the Hindu and Tibetan Buddhists believe that if you come back witha disability you were truly malicious in your last life and this is a type penence for your past evil.....Hindu's in particular see a disabled family member as a burden because of the difficulty they will have insecuring a good marriage and dowry for this person,and the shame of having a reincarnated sinner in the family................
Often disabled people in India are thrown on to the streets to fend for themselves,with no care,or money,because of the public "humiliation" their family will disown them no matter how dependent that person may be.

## Post 11 by wonderwoman (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Thursday, 28-Oct-2004 20:10:03

Well, I don't really know why it came in to my mind, I just know there have been stories written about reincarnation, and stories written about disabled people, but no stories about disabilities and reincarnation. I'm glad reincarnation isn't really true though, because no telling what life we might experience next time around. I've never thought of my blindness as a blessing or a curse, it's something that just is.I would have to agree with bug and alison, there's a contradiction there about being punished for what we did in a previous life, since how can you be punished for a life you don't remember?
I've always thought things can be interesting even if I don't believe in them in reality. The reason I don't believe in it in true fact, is if we were continually being born in to different lives, there'd be no heaven or hell, because we'd just keep being reborn over and over again.
How would I do a google search to find just that article? I mean would I just type the ball players name and the word reincarnation? I just don't know the exact word or phrase to put. Thanks law lord.
wonderwoman

## Post 12 by melodica (Account disabled) on Friday, 29-Oct-2004 13:12:20

I believe in spiritual reincarnation, which means that a spirit embodied in a human might not necessarily be reincarnated as a human. I could be a cat or a bug or even a plant in the next life, who knows? Only the powers know, that's who. I have always been a very kindhearted person toward anyone of any ability or lack thereof, so I don't think I'd be reincarnated as someone who had a bad attitude about disabilities since my spirit would prevail over my mind and what thoughts I formed. That's just my $0.02 for you, hehe

## Post 13 by lawlord (I'm going for the prolific poster awards!) on Sunday, 31-Oct-2004 9:21:52

Wonderwoman, Bug and Allison, why do you have to have a memory of something to be punished for it? If the purpose of punishment is some sort of moral censure, that is to say, communicating to you that you have taken an unfair advantage from society, and restoring the balance by depriving you of a sense, or limiting your liberty in some way, surely memory doesn't enter into it? ARe you saying that punishment has a certain element of pennance? If you are, that begs the question of when a remorseful person is finally deemed to be punished. I personally do not believe that remorse is relevant to a theory of punishment, although it may be forthcoming as a result of it. Sometimes we are punished for things that we don't even know are wrong, sometimes we are punished for things long after the event so we may have forgotten exactly what we are being punished for. If being reincarnated with a disability is a punishment, moreover, it would surely defeat the objective that the divine being who allocates the punishment desires, that is to say, he desires to observe whether or not you can, of your own valition and not out of fear of what you did in the past and of what awaits you, make amends and lead a better life. Again, I must repeat that I don't agree with the stance that disabilities connote sins in a past life, but I can't agree that there is a contradiction, because to be punished for something you don't have to know it was wrong, or even remember it, as the purpose of punishment is censure and not pennance. Indeed, you have the right, as the one being punished, to remain unrepentant and offend again, but that is of no consequence on the purpose of punishment.

## Post 14 by lawlord (I'm going for the prolific poster awards!) on Sunday, 31-Oct-2004 9:28:17

Besides, if pennance were the purpose of punishment, the logical consequence would be that if we knew someone would reoffend, if we knew someone remembered what they did and, moreover, thought it was right and would do it again, there would be absolutely no justification for punishing them at all.

## Post 15 by Emailaddressthief (the Zone BBS remains forever my home page) on Sunday, 31-Oct-2004 17:37:31

lawlord, I never said anything about being punished for a sin. That was brounght up after i posted my original response to this topic.
If you want to know my feelings, i don't believe in reincarnation nor do I believe people have disabilities because they are being punished for a sin. I find that idea to be repulsive.

## Post 16 by wonderwoman (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 31-Oct-2004 19:19:15

Well, law lord, maybe it's just me, but if I were being punished, it would be good to know what I was being punished for.And if it were true, and we had flashbacks of whatever wrongs we did in the past life, we'd know better and not do it in this life.
wonderwoman

## Post 17 by lawlord (I'm going for the prolific poster awards!) on Monday, 01-Nov-2004 4:52:38

Wonderwoman I agree with you that if we had flashbacks of what we did in a past life, we would do better this time round, but surely for all the wrong reasons. We would do better out of fear, out of the terror of what awaited us at the next bite of the cherry, rather than out of a genuine desire to conduct good works. If there is such a thing as reincarnation, then surely he or she who reincarnates us wants us to do better out of the next life due to our own rational choice, not out of coercion through fear brought on by flashbacks. Bug I must apologise to you, I realise that this contradiction in the purpose of punishment was attributed to you rather than actually stated by you. I wouldn't go as far as saying that the idea is repulsive, I'd say it's an interesting theory but one at which I wouldn't necessarily take offence. In fact, as Goblin points out earlier in this discussion, it's the central doctrine of some religions. finally, Wonderwoman, the fact is that people are punished without having any recollection of what they did: take a person who kills another person, is charged with nurder but then at trial pleads diminished responsibility in his defence. Under diminished responsibility a person will succeed if he is at the time of the offence suffering from an abnormality or disease of the mind brought on by inherent causes, disease or injury. However, it does not operate as a complete defence, and only reduces the conviction to one o manslaughter rather than murder, so the likelihood is that the defendant will serve a custodial sentence. It would therefore be quite possible for a person to be punished for something of which his recollection was hazy, even totally misinformed or non-existent. true, if the defendant does not know what he is doing, or does not know what he is doing is wrong, he will most likely succeed on the complete defence of insanity both over here and in the US, but over here at least this defence is applied very cautiously. so, you see, punishment is not dependent on the consciousness of one's sins, and therefore, the fact that we don't remember our past lives, if past lives we had, is no argument against reincarnation.

## Post 18 by Emailaddressthief (the Zone BBS remains forever my home page) on Monday, 01-Nov-2004 18:40:44

It's ok Lawlord. It is an interesting topic and I understand the argument being based on religion. I do believe in God. However, i still find the idea of telling someone they are blind or have some other disability because of sin is repulsive, rude, mean, wrong, or however else you want to put it.
I am not saying you or this post is wrong but to me the idea of telling someone they are blind because they are living in sin is.

## Post 19 by wonderwoman (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Monday, 01-Nov-2004 19:13:18

Well, i guess you have a point lawlord, if we want to correct the mistake, or a wrong we did to someone, we should do it out of a genuine sense of what's right. I don't believe in reincarnation either, but I've always been one who doesn't have to believe in something to read it, or talk about it. I enjoy reading fictional reincarnation stories, and ghost stories, none of which I believe in.The whole topic was what made me come up with the idea for my blind halucinations story, so even sometimes when I come up with these off the wall things, something comes out of it sometimes.
wonderwoman

## Post 20 by lawlord (I'm going for the prolific poster awards!) on Tuesday, 02-Nov-2004 4:24:13

That's great Wonderwoman, I hope my ideas were useful and we seem to have reached a consensus. What a shame the jolly old folks who mastermind the Bush regime can't discuss things in a similarly constructive manner.

## Post 21 by wonderwoman (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Tuesday, 02-Nov-2004 18:26:28

yes lawlord, I don't delve in to politics, but it use to be, that when you heard ad campaigns, each candidate presented his views and what he believed in, and their competition was at least civil. They use to refer to each other as my worthy opponent, now all they do is mud sling each other.
wonderwoman