# Notetakers: who makes 'em?

Category: accessible Devices

## Post 1 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Wednesday, 06-Jun-2012 18:33:30

okay, so I still use the PAC Mate Omni when i use a note taker which isn't often.
what other note takers are out there and what web sites are there for them?
I believe that Braille Sence is one made by GW Micro?
I really think FS needs to update there PAC Mate. it seems old school to me.

## Post 2 by Blue Velvet (I've got the platinum golden silver bronze poster award.) on Wednesday, 06-Jun-2012 20:09:32

TRY Humanware.com. THEY Have a line of note takers including the VoiceNote,BrailleNote, and more.

## Post 3 by season (the invisible soul) on Wednesday, 06-Jun-2012 21:50:48

Braillesense aren't made from GWMicro, they made from a Korean manifecture call Hims. GWMicro is one of their distributer. Now, some might put off because it is not American products, but it is one of the fastest Braille note taker around. Very reliable, Very fast, very quiet too. and it has nicer feel and touch than BrailleNotes.
Braillesense come in 1 18Cell, and 1 32Cell. Both has build in GPS, Wireless connectivity, IMab Email Client, Social Media capability such as MSN, google Talk, and Twitter, capability to read PDF, Docx, Doc, and more...
Basicly, now you have humanware, hims, and freedom scientific that made the similar products. IF you asking my opinion, I would say, Freedom Scientific has a lot to catch up compare to Braillesense and BrailleNote Apex. You might want to do more research on Braillesense U2 and Braillenote Apex.

## Post 4 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Wednesday, 06-Jun-2012 22:55:41

wow how could i have forgotten 'bout the braille note? I used to use the classic before I got the FS PAC Mate in 2004.
I think there is more still out there but not sure . isn't there a lap something? laptalk maybe? lol

## Post 5 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Thursday, 07-Jun-2012 9:46:07

does anyone have a web site for the Braile Sense? i mean from the company itself. whomever makes it.

## Post 6 by Blue Velvet (I've got the platinum golden silver bronze poster award.) on Thursday, 07-Jun-2012 16:00:19

John, go to www.hims-inc.com

## Post 7 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Thursday, 07-Jun-2012 16:03:03

oh okay thanks becky. i did see that in the list of google results but had no idea what it was. i didn't know if that was a distributer or not. I stand corrected. smiles

## Post 8 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Thursday, 07-Jun-2012 16:05:25

hmm. i should have read joanns post more closely. oops. oh wel, thanks again.

## Post 9 by YourBoyJD (Generic Zoner) on Thursday, 07-Jun-2012 16:21:44

go to ma website i got cool ones drop me a qn and ill give u one for sail bruh.
$25000 for ya cuz your my friend.
remember, drop me a qn!

## Post 10 by season (the invisible soul) on Saturday, 09-Jun-2012 6:50:42

$25,000? are you dreaming? you can buy at least 5 braille note takers from that kind of money. Well, i'll give you$25,000 from monopoli money perhaps.

## Post 11 by YourBoyJD (Generic Zoner) on Saturday, 09-Jun-2012 16:41:51

lol.
y did u ruin it!
I was about to make some serious cash!
dam u!

## Post 12 by glori (Veteran Zoner) on Saturday, 09-Jun-2012 23:08:15

Buttercup,
Hahaha! I think that was wonderful!

## Post 13 by Timber (Veteran Zoner) on Sunday, 10-Jun-2012 19:07:12

Hello everyone,
I recall and obviously can't speak for other countries but there was a notetaker made by a company called Handytech? To add to the list, may have misspelled the name but something like handy folowed by the word tech to emphasise it! Don't think they came from the UK where I'm from, can't where where, not that I had one, I'm a Pac Mate user; Think they were overtaken by the 'big players' mentioned above including the one who make Pac Mate, i.e. Freedomscientific! Anyways!...:((
Kind regards,
Timber AKA Timothy Bamber User 7902

## Post 14 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 17-Jun-2012 10:30:48

Someone told me 'bout one called the Icon too.
JD keep dreamin, hell no to the cash.

## Post 15 by rail racer (Zone BBS Addict) on Thursday, 30-Aug-2012 0:05:17

Pritty soon or if not already done so, Iphones and Ipads are gonna take over the notetaking department.

## Post 16 by season (the invisible soul) on Thursday, 30-Aug-2012 4:58:11

IPhone may be taking over the note taker department for some, but not for all. One of the best ideal solution is to have both, a braille note taker and an iphone or ipad.

## Post 17 by starfly (99956) on Thursday, 30-Aug-2012 8:06:41

actually the android OS is taking over the up coming note takers, I do agree, the special note takers might work for some but for me give me a BlueTooth keyboard and my galaxy sIII, a nottaking app and I am good. I already have an app that does very well when recording, so that would work for classes.

## Post 18 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Thursday, 30-Aug-2012 21:18:00

Perhaps this will spawn more inavation with these companies that make note takeing devices. who knows.

## Post 19 by starfly (99956) on Thursday, 06-Sep-2012 8:32:41

Honestly, come on, windows CE 6.0 is not just dieing, its dead. Microsoft has moved on and I believe companies like humanware need to move on and us a current OS be it android or linix.

## Post 20 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Thursday, 06-Sep-2012 12:20:52

PAC Mate uses Windows CE but there are others who stil use it? what other note takeing devices stil use Windows Ce?
Perhaps Windows Mobile version 8 will be useable. i know 7.5 wasn't.
What are the advantages of useing a different OS as you suggest, starfly?
for example on PAC Mate. is it not possibel to upgrade the hardware and processing power/memory and use a better wi-fi card because the OS wont support it ?

## Post 21 by starfly (99956) on Friday, 07-Sep-2012 9:58:33

Lets see, android is open source, quite flexible, supports current hardware and future hardware as well. Android is still beeing supported, updated and used. By the same tocon, so is linix both are open source OS. Windows CE 6.0 and 5.0 are no longer beeing developed for, as for win8 moble so far I have just seen some phones come out with that OS. Nokia has a new line of phones that will have win8 but back to note takers, so far no go for win8 on not takers. Besides, why spend all that money when you can get a main streem device that does the same and more. :)

## Post 22 by starfly (99956) on Friday, 07-Sep-2012 10:00:56

Oh, why keep updating a device that has aged, when it would be best for freedom scientific to come out with something new, Oh, maybe something we have not seen for note takers. Just tossing that thought out there to play with for any one who wants to run with it.

## Post 23 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 07-Sep-2012 10:27:55

personally, i'm glad the option is there for those who may want to use a note taker as aposed to something else.

## Post 24 by season (the invisible soul) on Friday, 07-Sep-2012 18:21:30

For a blind user, androy and iphone with a bluetooth keyboard or a computer might be good enough. But for some deafblind user, or those who have both impairments, they do need the capability of a braille display, either its a note taker, or a pure braille display. using a braille note taker also means keep braille alife, which is important for both blind , and deafblind user.
Grunted, for some the advance of technology e.g. Tabs and computers and phones may pretty much replace the braille component of some users life, but for others, it is not necesarry the case.
As i mention earlier on this topic, and i'll do it again, Androy and Iphone with a bluetooth keyboard may be the answer for some, but it is not the answer for all.
We need a better, more affordable, portable braille products, compare to what it has in the market at the moment.

## Post 25 by TechnologyUser2012 (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Saturday, 08-Sep-2012 17:47:34

I used to use a braille note, but now I use my iPhone with a bluetooth braille display.

## Post 26 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Sunday, 09-Sep-2012 22:41:43

i checked FS's website yesterday. I am surprised they are still celling the PAC Mate for over $3000 with the 40-cell braille display.
I do agree that they need to come up with something more current. It seems as if they dont put anything in to developing something new as far as note takers are concerned.
Even the testamonials are from like 2007.
It is not only helpful for deaf-blind users to have displays, but for even people like me who have some hearing, i can't just rely on speech.
The one thing I like is the options. If you want a smart phone (weather it be new or old), you can do that. If you prefer to have a note taker (with simple feature phone), that is an option also.
But even feature phones seem to be dieing. eBay and shopping online is a great thing IMO. the internet is world-wide, and you can find that older equipment if you choose to use it.

## Post 27 by starfly (99956) on Monday, 10-Sep-2012 8:40:05

I will give ya that, just letting you know braille press, the people who make the braille Plus are about to release the braille ++ or what ever they plan to call it. This currently runs android 2.3 with braille support and will hopefully come with ICS when its released. you can find a review on it on blind bargons audeo review page.

## Post 28 by season (the invisible soul) on Tuesday, 16-Oct-2012 8:41:39

American Printing House (APH) just release the next generation of Braille+ call Braille+18. It comes with Androy OS, and lots more goodies. The pricing also very attractive, $3599USD +$40USD delivery (within US).
Definitely worth to take a look if you are considering a new braille display/note taker.

## Post 29 by GreenTurtle (Music is life. Love. Vitality.) on Saturday, 20-Oct-2012 19:03:23

Still pricy though. The average person can't shell out that kind of cash. It's a shame, because I would really like to check it out.

## Post 30 by season (the invisible soul) on Saturday, 20-Oct-2012 19:04:59

Yes, id is pricy, but compare to what Apex and BraillesenseuU2 and padmate pricing at, it is a very good price.

## Post 31 by mandojan (Newborn Zoner) on Friday, 28-Dec-2012 17:56:50

Hi all:
I have used note takers since the first Braille'n Speak and like them because Ilove to write in braille. I tried my I-phone with braille keyboard but don't like the support for grade II braille. I am thinking seriously about the Braille Plus 18. It sounds really interesting and not proprietary. So, there you have my little view. Yes, I know, mainstream is good but so is braille. Writing poetry on an I-phone doesn't work for me. Besides, there is a real word processor in the new aph note taker. Bye bye for now

## Post 32 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 08-Feb-2013 19:05:10

The Braille Plus 18 will have celular calling capability coming up as well.

## Post 33 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 08-Feb-2013 19:07:41

Now here's another question for you all. Which note takers have elaquence installed?
I know the PAC Mate does. Does the BrailleNote still use Elaquence?
I remember listening to a podcast on the Braille+18, and am pretty certain it doesn't use Elaquence for speech output.
Not sure on BrailleSense.

## Post 34 by Twinklestar09 (I've now got the bronze prolific poster award! now going for the silver award!) on Saturday, 09-Feb-2013 15:11:03

To the last poster, the Braille Sense does use Eloquence, just so you know. *smile* But it's the Sapi one though, and not the one like JAWS uses.

## Post 35 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Saturday, 09-Feb-2013 15:36:49

What's the difference between the SAPI one and Jaws one?

## Post 36 by write away (The Zone's Blunt Object) on Saturday, 09-Feb-2013 18:20:30

The braillePlus 18 using Ivona text to speech which is actually much better and more human-sounding than eloquence.

## Post 37 by GreenTurtle (Music is life. Love. Vitality.) on Monday, 11-Feb-2013 2:19:20

I agree, the Ivona voices are much better than Eloquence. And, yes, you can set a Braille Note to use Eloquence. It's not the default profile. By default, it uses the Keynote Gold synth. But it's easy enough to switch between the two if you want to.

## Post 38 by Twinklestar09 (I've now got the bronze prolific poster award! now going for the silver award!) on Monday, 11-Feb-2013 4:56:09

To poster 35: One major difference between JAWS's Eloquence and SAPI's Eloquence is the way they read things. With JAWS, Eloquence reads, well, I guess more smoothly or not sure how to explain that; it doesn't pause where there aren't any pauses. SAPI's Eloquence though, does; I guess maybe it's trying to sound more natural or something? I don't know. For instance, a sentence might say: "I went home to get my lunch for school."
JAWS's Eloquence would read: "I went home to get my lunch for school."
SAPI's Eloquence might read: "I went home, to get my lunch for school."
The first sentence reads straight thru without pauses, while the second reads as if there was a comma in the sentence even though the sentence originally did not have one. I think there are some other small differences as well.

## Post 39 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Monday, 11-Feb-2013 20:40:22

Is the SAPI voice also known as IBM Via Voice in Kurzweil 1000?
Now i'm curious. could i possibly get this SAPPI voice for Windows XP and u use it for say Teamtalk anouncements?

## Post 40 by Twinklestar09 (I've now got the bronze prolific poster award! now going for the silver award!) on Tuesday, 12-Feb-2013 0:50:32

Yeah, actually, I think that's what it is; thanks for pointing that out because I had actually forgotten what it was called. *smile* As for your second question, I know that you can download it; I believe it's a free download and would work as a SAPI voice so you could use it with any screen reader. Not sure if Teamtalk has something separate that reads announcements, but if it does and you're able to change synths, then you could probably use that synth to read the announcements.

## Post 41 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Tuesday, 12-Feb-2013 14:33:49

Hmm, in that case if i ever decided to use NVDA, i could use it?
i cannot understand the voice it comes bwith.

## Post 42 by Twinklestar09 (I've now got the bronze prolific poster award! now going for the silver award!) on Tuesday, 12-Feb-2013 15:13:42

Yes; you could use it with NVDA, or with probably any other screenreader.

## Post 43 by chelslicious (like it or not, I'm gonna say what I mean. all the time.) on Tuesday, 12-Feb-2013 16:01:02

you can also install drivers for NVDA, that'll make it sound like jaws.

## Post 44 by GreenTurtle (Music is life. Love. Vitality.) on Tuesday, 12-Feb-2013 22:45:33

I had bad luck with the Eloquence Via voice under XP. It royally screwed up my Sappi output. I remember trying to set it as the default voice in Klango. Next thing I know, I had no speech at all. I turned on Jaws and forgot about it for a few days. then, I went to play one of the Kitchensinc games, and I couldn't get any of my sappi voices to work. I had to repair them. I'm not sure if it was Klango, or via Voice itself, but I'm just giving you fair warning if you choose to go that route. And I agree with you about ESpeak, the voice that NVDA comes with. It's terrible.

## Post 45 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Wednesday, 13-Feb-2013 1:21:02

oh wow, that is so not cool on the bad luck.
I'm not sure i'm gonna get it, first i gotta find out ware to get it.

## Post 46 by JH_Radio (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Monday, 27-May-2013 0:32:59

I can understand the speech enough to make jaws work when it craps out on me.

## Post 47 by Hongsen (Zone BBS Addict) on Sunday, 27-Oct-2013 4:19:41

Hey, anybody know if it is possible to get the BraillePlus 18 outside of the USA? Or if I wanted one, could I ordered it from APB directly because I don't live in the US.

## Post 48 by season (the invisible soul) on Sunday, 27-Oct-2013 8:41:26

Hi, yes, you can order directly through APH, but bare in mind, there is no support or whats ever

## Post 49 by Hongsen (Zone BBS Addict) on Sunday, 27-Oct-2013 11:59:11

Oh, ok. Good to know. Thanks!

## Post 50 by Imprecator (The Zone's Spelling Nazi) on Friday, 01-Nov-2013 9:59:17

Recently got a Braille Sense and it's quite cool, I must say.

## Post 51 by Hongsen (Zone BBS Addict) on Friday, 01-Nov-2013 12:15:44

I'll be getting a BrailleSense soon. Anybody here who used it and a BrailleNote before? I'm quite interested to see how the two are compared with one another. Also, how reliable is a BrailleSense in general?

## Post 52 by Imprecator (The Zone's Spelling Nazi) on Friday, 01-Nov-2013 13:18:06

Braill notes are crap. The battery pack is nothing but randomly arranged AA batteries, you only get monophonic sound, and um, some other stuff I can't remember at the moment. At least HIMS let's you change the battery pack yourself, and they only take a few hours to charge.

## Post 53 by season (the invisible soul) on Saturday, 02-Nov-2013 3:05:18

BrailleSense u2 Mini just release a couple of days ago. Its 18 cells unit, basicly is the replacement of Braillesense OnHand, which came out about 2008/2009.
It also of course, made it one of the latest technology on the braille note taker market

## Post 54 by write away (The Zone's Blunt Object) on Saturday, 02-Nov-2013 3:22:48

Actually joanne, though the braille sense U2 mini is the latest released notetaker, the braille plus 18 is the latest technologically. It runs on a mainstream mobile OS and it's way more advanced than the braille sense U2.
Also, I'm sorry to say, you completely misguided the gentleman who asked about the bp18 from APH and it's availability outside the united states. You said it's available but there is no support for it. That's completely wrong.
There is plenty of support for it on its user list and through American Printing house--I know because I have one and I follow the list. (do you even know which device he was talking about? because he didnt' mean the first-gen braille plus. that's no longer being sold. The Braille plus 18was released this year and certainly has support). The developers and others who are directly involved in creating the hardware and software for it are always answering questions and troubleshooting peoples issues within less than a day of their posting.
As for it's quality, I can vouch for it's durability and I personally have no complaints as for the software installed. Some people gripe about not being able to install new software yet because the notetaker hasn't been updated to android 4.3, but they're working on that release which should come in January.
So please try not to mislead people when you may not fully know the deal about a device. The bp18 is a neat little device, and certainly worth more than the braille sense and the braille note lines--less pricy, better built and has more potential down the road. they're only beginning to build software for it and expand it, and I have a feeling this device will go far in the future. Further than most available note takers on the market today.

## Post 55 by season (the invisible soul) on Saturday, 02-Nov-2013 3:32:24

No, you missunderstand me. What i meant with that there is no support for it is that there is no technical support for it. Means, if the 18+ break down or something, you don't have any local tech support that can deal with it locally. This information i have from APH itself. The only way to get it fix and getting any tech support is by sending the unit back to APH. Unless they change, in the last 3 months. I was looking in to getting one of the unit last year, when it just came out, and again, July this year. Both time i have the same answer. And that was from APH directly.

## Post 56 by season (the invisible soul) on Saturday, 02-Nov-2013 3:33:00

Nope, you are the one who missunderstand me. What i meant with that there is no support for it is that there is no technical support for it. Means, if the 18+ break down or something, you don't have any local tech support that can deal with it locally. This information i have from APH itself. The only way to get it fix and getting any tech support is by sending the unit back to APH. Unless they change, in the last 3 months. I was looking in to getting one of the unit last year, when it just came out, and again, July this year. Both time i have the same answer. And that was from APH directly.

## Post 57 by season (the invisible soul) on Saturday, 02-Nov-2013 3:39:37

And, to add on, i said, "it is of course, made it one of the latest". the word is "one of the latest" not the only latest technology. Which is again, different from what you wanting to understand.
As far as Impi is concern, regarding the Braillenote Battery, it is true with BrailleNote MPower, but it is no longer the case with Braillenote Apex. Humanware has decided to use lithium battery, to replace to it's double aAas battery pack. the old BrailleNote is only exist as a communicator device for the deafblind.

## Post 58 by Hongsen (Zone BBS Addict) on Saturday, 02-Nov-2013 7:19:34

Thanks all for your help with my questions. I really wanted to get the BraillePlus18 but it wasn't as well known as the BrailleNotes and BrailleSenses over here. I would have better support with the BrailleNotes and Braillesenses. I used a BrailleNote Apex before and while it was a good machine, the BrailleSense U2 seems much superior. Also, I would need calculator function for my studies and do correct me if I'm wrong but I didn't see calculator application mentioned in the BraillePlus user manual that I skim through. What I required in a Braille notetaker is Braille display functionality, Word processing, calculator, Internet browser and whatever extras that the notetaker can offer me. I really hope I made the right choice by choosing the BrailleSense U2.

## Post 59 by Faial (Zone BBS Addict) on Tuesday, 03-Dec-2013 10:24:02

For me the notetaker's market will either die or they will have to change dramatically the approach and pricing as well.
For me what is really exciting is what we may call hybrid braille products which are braille displays with some notetaking capacities like a powerful word processor, calculator, scheduler etc etc.
Let's say they are braille displays with memory.
Examples of that are the french Eurobraill Esys 40, 24 and 12, Handy Tech Products like Active Braille, Braille Star and the Hims Braille Edge 40. And I forgot the Mini Seika with 16 cells.
For example I don't like Notetakers but for example with my Active Braille, I send my books and electronic music braille scores and always can use it everywhere either giving lessons or in reharsals so there you have an example with a braille display with memory which is not a notetaker.
I always have the impression that Notetakers get outdated pretty soon while with a powerful Braille display you always can update your I-Device or computer and you are good to go.
I used 9 years one Alva Satellite braille display from XP to Windows 7 and it always worked as new and it was always updated to my needs.
Where I feel braille displays with memory are good is that no matter what happen we will always need to write text, read books, etc etc.
Also my last note is that with the fact that Freedom Scientific last Focus series both 40 and 14, I think they understood that the market is changing and for the future people will start using Braille displays with Mobile devices instead of Notetakers.
What an Ipad Minny can do nowadays compared to a Packmate is simply a joke!
Cheers,

## Post 60 by mat the musician (Help me, I'm stuck to my chair!) on Saturday, 07-Dec-2013 16:27:48

Another notetaker option is the Pronto, I a European company makes it, (not sure of the company name), but it supports braille for many languages, russian, hebrew, german, etc, and has the ability to word-process in those languages. It does connect to the internet and has a calculator as far as I know.

## Post 61 by Faial (Zone BBS Addict) on Saturday, 07-Dec-2013 17:37:48

The company which develops Pronto is Baum!
Cheers

## Post 62 by mat the musician (Help me, I'm stuck to my chair!) on Wednesday, 11-Dec-2013 16:38:02

Faial, thanks it was on the tip of my tongue.

## Post 63 by changedheart421 (I've now got the bronze prolific poster award! now going for the silver award!) on Wednesday, 11-Dec-2013 20:51:37

Hey Guys,
I have a focus 40 but find at ttimes I want something a little bit more portable that might fit in a handbag. Can anyone give me any suggestions? Does anyone have the focus 14 or braille pen?

## Post 64 by Imprecator (The Zone's Spelling Nazi) on Thursday, 12-Dec-2013 9:00:19

Braille Edge.

## Post 65 by Faial (Zone BBS Addict) on Thursday, 12-Dec-2013 9:40:43

Braille Edge more portable than the Focus 40? Lol Sounds funny! The new focus 40 is 500 grams. Check the sizes of the Braille Edge? Lol
I have nothing against Braille Edge. All the contrary. I think it is a wonderful product.
But if you want something more portable than the Focus 40, you probably want a Mini Seika which in the US is also sold by Perkins with 18 cells, Esys 12 or Focus 14.
I own a Focus 14 and could not be happier. I take it everywhere. It's small, light, the keyboard is quiet, the bluetooth is very stable, braille dots are plesant to read so in my opinion the quolity vs price in Focus 14 is really reasonable! Cheers

## Post 66 by Imprecator (The Zone's Spelling Nazi) on Saturday, 14-Dec-2013 13:30:18

I've seen a little tiny braille edge display that you can carry around and use in public with an iPhone and stuff like that.

## Post 67 by write away (The Zone's Blunt Object) on Saturday, 14-Dec-2013 13:56:03

That's not a braille edge, impy. a braille edge is a forty-cell braille display that weighs about two pounds. its' manufactured by hims. You likely saw a refreshabraille.

## Post 68 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Saturday, 14-Dec-2013 14:39:14

I'd recommend a Focus 14 over the RefreshaBraille I have and here is why:
I know you sacrifice 4 cells, but they have better thumb keys on the Focus. Also with the RefreshaBraille, it says Battery Low on the display for the final 20% of the charge. 20% is serious overkill in my opinion.
Also Freedom's model has better USB connections and such. The Bluetooth on my RefreshaBraille won't let me walk very far away from the iPad or whatever. The Focus is better. Granted my RefreshaBraille is a 2009 model but still.
It's hard to say because that 4 cells could sure make up a difference and I have not spent a serious amount of time with the Focus 14 Blue but at work I have a older Focus 40 with similar thumb and rocker bars. Very convenient.

## Post 69 by write away (The Zone's Blunt Object) on Saturday, 14-Dec-2013 15:40:50

I had a refreshabraille for a while and i hated reading on it for any lengthy amount of time due to the awkward placment of the scroll buttons. that was a real pain. I dont' like freedom science fiction products, at least I didnt' like the pac mate--total rip off--but if they have thumb keys, I may reconsider my stance.

## Post 70 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Saturday, 14-Dec-2013 15:49:30

It's not like the PAC Mate display at all. New rethink, new design, etc.
Buy it for the product, not the ideology. lol. I do, anyway, when I purchase these things.
It'd be hard to go down from 18 to 14, but still. The way I get around that on the RefreshaBraille is use my thumbs to chord the keys on the keyboard that make for the panning dot two and five chords, and also for navigation without the joystick. I do like their joystick though.

## Post 71 by Imprecator (The Zone's Spelling Nazi) on Sunday, 15-Dec-2013 11:23:45

I'm gonna invent scroll foot pedals. Haha.

## Post 72 by Faial (Zone BBS Addict) on Monday, 16-Dec-2013 16:36:23

I am also not the biggest fun of Freedom Scientific but I just evaluated the product that better served me. I could have chosen others like the Esys 12 but really the new Focus Models are just brilliant in my opinion specially the keyboards: the level they achieved with this last models is really unbelievable.