# Fear of guide dog?

Category: Animal House

## Post 1 by CrazyMusician (If I don't post to your topic, it's cuz I don't give a rip about it!) on Wednesday, 05-Feb-2014 19:56:19

Hi!
Something I have never really had to address is people who have very strong fears of dogs. I am on a goalball team with someone who will not go near the dog - even as so far as to go the long way around a room to avoid the dog. She says she has a fear of the dog, but behaves more abruptly/rudely than afraid.
I just started a new job, and one of my coworkers is deathly afraid of dogs. I was aware of this, but made an error in judgment and wound up with my guide dog, myself, and her in the bathroom. She asked me to please wait outside because she was scared (she really did sound scared); later we had a good talk and while I cannot say that I understand her fear, I respect it in so much as I can.
My question is two-fold:
1) I happen to notice that both of these women are from Arab-speaking countries; is the fear possibly cultural? I have not met anyone (including people who are allergic) who are so fearful of my dog.
2) Those of you who have or have had guide dogs, and have experienced this situation, how have you handled it?
Thanks, all,
Kate

## Post 2 by SilverLightning (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Wednesday, 05-Feb-2014 20:23:28

I handled it the same way I would handle someone who was afraid of my eyes. Tell them that I'm not going to completely inconvenience myself to consider their irrational fears. They either find a way to go about their life with the dog in the picture, or they don't. Up to them.
I had a run-in with a Muslim store owner that told me my dog was unclean and wasn't allowed in his store. I told him he could call the police or start praying for forgiveness. Either way I was going in the store.
I've found that people who have fears of dogs usually get used to the guide dog if they're in close proximity to you for a long period of time. If not, I guess she'll get lots of exercise walking the long way around the room, won't she?

## Post 3 by forereel (Just posting.) on Wednesday, 05-Feb-2014 22:00:55

When I had a dog if it was a shop and I was in America I'd go in even when the clerk or whatever wanted to refuse me. I actually sued MC Donald's over this issue, because they refused to serve me, so I couldn't eat.
Now people's fear, I can't help that, but I would try to help them out, if we had to be in the same room.
Like a bathroom, I'd not go in and crowd them at a work place, but a public bathroom I'd just go in.
There is nothing that can be done about there fear, and some guide dogs are actually sort of mean if you get to close to their masters, so the fear is not unfounded.
Dogs, to a fearful person are dogs, and dogs bite.
I knew a lady had a shepherd, and that dog would bite your ass if she didn't give you permission to approach her. Damn thing weighed about 100. A really big guide.
Maybe soon they will get use to the fact your dog won't bite, but if not, as stated, they'll get lots of walking done. Nothing you can do about that. Explaining is a waste of time.

## Post 4 by forereel (Just posting.) on Thursday, 06-Feb-2014 2:03:10

I know this isn’t teaching anyone better, but suppose at your work place you used a little diplomacy and left your dog at your desk when you have to go to the bathroom?
This is only because it is truly a tight space, and it show that you were willing to compensate others you work with to some degree.
Same thing with the snack area, and such rooms.
Your desk, and work area, however, are your domain, and if they don’t wish to walk past you, it is on them to find another direction to travel.
When you must travel outside, or go places you really require your dog, you are not responsible for who you must pass, so you should take the most direct route, or best route for you.
This would solve your problem I’d think, and you can relax and forget about trying to teach someone something that has been ingrained for life. Maybe they’ve had history with mean dogs.

## Post 5 by Izzito (This site is so "educational") on Thursday, 06-Feb-2014 17:19:04

its a cultural thing. I´ve had arabic friends tell me that dogs are thought of dirty and don´t belong in the house or anywhere inside. unfortunately their isn´t much you can say to change someones mind in this situation

## Post 6 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Thursday, 06-Feb-2014 17:37:35

I pretty much agree with Cody on this one. I admit to a fear of dogs, I got chased as a kid and climbed a tree to evade getting got. This even though we had our own dog.
But if the handler is with the dog, then the uncertainty for me is gone. What I am extremely uncertain of are the wandering ones just going by themselves or sitting tied up on the sidewalk, something you see a lot of in Portland since we're one of the doggiest cities in the U.S.
But enter the handler into the picture and things immediately become different. I'd personally say just act confident about your dog's behavior and most people will probably leave it be. I have never been afraid of a guide dog or a dog that close to its handler.
I'll admit, I honestly don't know how to read dogs so I don't know if that bark means GTFO or I want to play.
People I know who describe how to read things do so visually, hair standing up, etc.
There's no reason for someone to be afraid of a dog with its handler right there, though, in my opinion. But I don't get the middle east thing though.

## Post 7 by forereel (Just posting.) on Thursday, 06-Feb-2014 17:41:54

In this case, it is at a work place.
Suppose for the sake of argument, that middle eastern lady becomes her boss? Smile.
In America, don't know about Canada, you can be let go for any reason. Nuff said!

## Post 8 by Shepherdwolf (I've now got the bronze prolific poster award! now going for the silver award!) on Friday, 07-Feb-2014 15:40:59

I see two sides of this.
One hand says what Leo and Cody have, although in a slightly nicer way than Cody put it. It's not about proving a point, but you also don't need to be trodden on. Being afraid of a loose dog, or a dog snarling at you from behind a fence...those things I get. But being afraid of a dog in the abstract...well, it happens, but you as the handler shouldn't have to pander overmuch.
That being said, I'm the sort of person who, if I had a dog and knew, flat knew, I was going to be gone for all of a minute or two, I'd take my cane when using the bathroom or going to the snack machine or whatnot. This would be particularly true if I had my own office where the dog either couldn't get out or couldn't get up to any mmschief even in my short absence. I can hear people suggesting that leaving your dog alone like that is a bad idea, but it's all in how well you know your workplace and whether or not there's a door you can shut between your dog and the rest of the world for a minute. The dog sure as hell isn't going to get anxious; if it is, what the hell do you do when you shower or take the garbage out and leave the dog behind?
It's give and take. Just don't give too much.

## Post 9 by SilverLightning (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 07-Feb-2014 15:43:58

No you can't. You can't be fired because your boss is afraid of your guide dog. That company would have lawsuits so fast it would make their bankers cry and their lawyers cum in their underpants.
The problem with your suggestion wayne is twofold. First, you never leave your dog. You just don't do it. Its bad for the dog's discipline, and its bad for the emotional bond between handler and dog. Second, you don't know how many people walk by your desk while your gone. One person gives that dog a piece of the sandwich they're eating, you now have a sick dog on your hands. Worse, one person calls the dog and the dog moves from under your desk and goes over to them. Then when you get back, you have no dog and you panic. Still worse, someone comes by and decides to take your dog for a walk, since its just laying there looking so cute. I've seen several cases of all of those scenarios. You never leave your dog.

## Post 10 by SilverLightning (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 07-Feb-2014 15:48:19

To address SW's question, since we posted at the same time. There is a difference between the dog at home and the dog in public. The dog knows because of the harness and because of your emotional state and your actions that in public you depend on it. Its part of the dog/handler relationship. AT home, the harness comes off and the dog is a really well-behaved dog, but not a guide dog. It knows that you don't depend on it so much in that environment, and so its alright to go off to take a shower or what have you.
However, the dog, most of them at least, will check on you from time to time. They come to your side, give you a little sniff, you pet them a few times, and they lay back down. Its also your responsibility to make sure the dog knows you're still there for them. You pet them every once in a while, give them a command or two, and go on about your day.
Summary though, public and home are different for the dog. You never leave your dog, as I said.

## Post 11 by forereel (Just posting.) on Friday, 07-Feb-2014 17:38:27

At my work place it was required I move around all the time. I couldn't get the dog everytime I had to go brab something off a shelf.
Maybe I had to step in the next room to ask a question, or give an instruction, and sure, I'd go to the bathroom as well.
The work place is not a strange place in my opinion where people are going to be coming by and fooling with the dog.
Maybe that is something that would need to be addressed with the management.
The idea would be, if I'm going to leave my dog, here is the memo you need to send out.
Now, if you were let go, she'd not be stupd and say "I let her go, because I am afraid of her dog." Come on? It is law in many places, that the company can just simply lay workers off. They don't need a reason.
If she were so dumb as to state that reason, you'll not need a job for a while.
I have no idea what the work laws are in Canada, but I frankly can't see harm in the diplomatic approach.

## Post 12 by SilverLightning (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 07-Feb-2014 18:00:07

Your post outlines perfectly why I think les people should get dogs. Now, yes, if you're walking across the room to get something off the shelf, you don't take your dog. That isn't leaving your dog. You wouldn't even take your cane to do that. Same with poking your head in the next room, though you would give your dog a command for that. But if you are going somewhere for a period of time longer than the length of a few sentences, you grab the leash.
Honestly, and pardon me for going off topic for a sec, but I hear this response a lot. People say, taking the dog, like they think its difficult to do. How long do you actually think it takes to get the dog from a resting position to a position of work? Cuz it seems like people believe its this long and drawn out process. It takes all of thre seconds, give or take. Its literally picking up a leather strap, giving a light tug, swirling your arm slightly (maybe) and then catching the handle. Its simple.

## Post 13 by forereel (Just posting.) on Friday, 07-Feb-2014 18:15:43

Well, I probably wasn't the best handler. You see, in the office, the dog was allowed to be free, in that I'd remove the gear accept for the leash.
Most times I'd not even tie him to the desk.
When it was time to go someplace I had to go, or take it out, I'd put the gear back on.
I'd go to the beach often, and because my dog would simply follow me, I'd let him be free completely.
That isn't possible with all of them, but this one would.
The second one, I had to keep in hand at all times. Smile. He'd be in the snack bar eating the icecream. hahaha.
I don't know, just seems a diplomatic approach might be healthy for all.

## Post 14 by SilverLightning (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 07-Feb-2014 18:18:11

Sure, if you mean politeness when you say the diplomatic approach. Be polite, explain to her that the dog isn't dangerous, but don't let her kep you from taking your dog with you wherever you need to take him.

## Post 15 by vh (This site is so "educational") on Friday, 07-Feb-2014 18:20:28

Isn't "need" the point in question here?

## Post 16 by forereel (Just posting.) on Friday, 07-Feb-2014 18:21:40

I'd like to know what you decide, and how it worked out.

## Post 17 by SilverLightning (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Friday, 07-Feb-2014 20:48:54

Its a guide dog Wayne, its her eyes in every form of the word except anatomically. she needs to take the dog everywhere. Those things aren't conveniently more effective versions of canes. They're not accessories. Its not something you strap on because it matches those fetching red heels you're wearing today. You don't choose guide dog or cane because of what color nail polish you decided to slap on that day. Its not something you only use in cold weather. Its a guide dog. You use it all the time.
I will never understand why people will go through the hardship of getting trained with a guide dog, and then just drop them all willy-nilly like a flashy charm bracelet that simply doesn't go with their dres. (sorry for all the feminine sarcasm here)

## Post 18 by CrazyMusician (If I don't post to your topic, it's cuz I don't give a rip about it!) on Monday, 10-Feb-2014 14:24:39

I guess I am just trying to figure out when it is better to leave your dog to sleep on her doggie bed or when to take her with you into a meeting 20 feet away (5 min, tops). perhaps this is due to the nature of where one works that will determine the response... but Cody, I have left Jenny alone on her doggie bed with the "Stay" command when getting a coffee from the break room, and only once had a problem on my first day of work. Jenn tends to settle down when she is more familiar with her surroundings. Does this make her an accessory? No...
Kate
P.s. My boss has been accommodating both to me and to the coworker who is afraid of Jenn. The coworker's cubicle was right beside mine, so she requested a move and that was agreed. It hasn't really been an issue; she and I talk on skype all the time, so I know it's not personal; with my teammate, it feels much less so.

## Post 19 by CrazyMusician (If I don't post to your topic, it's cuz I don't give a rip about it!) on Monday, 10-Feb-2014 14:27:50

I will also add here that I do not work in an office setting that has foot traffic; we sit at our desks, pop into offices for confabs, and go back. We do not have incoming customers/clients come in. Everyone in this building is WELL aware of doggie etiquette, and if they were to pop in and mess around with Jen, it is no different from my going into their cubicle/office and rifling through their wallet. perhaps I am naive, or just happen to work with nice people.
Kate

## Post 20 by Runner229 (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Monday, 10-Feb-2014 16:54:53

I don't understand it either Cody. I forget if I mentioned this on another topic so sorry if I'm repeating myself, but there was this guy at college who used a seeing eye dog and he didn't really take the dog out to work him much. And even when he didn't have the dog he hardly ever used his cane... he relied heavily on the sight he had. One time he ended up stubbing his foot on a rock and complained, saying that his friends were right there and they should have diverted him around the rock. Lol I think us cane and dog users can agree on one thing at least: that was his fault. It isn't the responsibility for other people to watch out for him. I do realize that this is the mind set of many people though

## Post 21 by Flidais (WISEST IS SHE WHO KNOWS THAT SHE DOES NOT KNOW) on Monday, 10-Feb-2014 17:29:23

I feel SW said it well with it being "give and take".
If you follow the "screw them they can just deal with me" approach that some have suggested on here, I feel that is the best way to come across as a total jerk. I don't care what you're "entitled" to, you live in a world where you truly have to understand and get along with humans. Sure they may have irrational fears/beliefs, but I highly doubt you don't. That's like saying a rape victim should have to continue seeing her male counselor, since her fear of men is irrational because not all men are jerks and would rape a woman.
Being in a situation where someone is uneducated or misinformed about some blindness issue like your guide dog is the perfect opportunity to educate people that way they learn and actually may become more open minded, not completely shut down cause you acted like an entitled jerk. Taking your dog everywhere just because you can even if you don't want to or it's not practical is just a stupid power trip to disguise your own insecurities. If you live your life "sticking it to those sighted people" you're never going to blend or enjoy a truly "sighted" world with sighted people who sometimes aren't super up to date or understanding on all the blindness stuff.
At the same time you don't want to jeopardize or give up your own needs when it comes to having your dog. So you really have to decide what is important to you and what battles you want to fight.
I think your coworker moving was a perfect example of a great compromise.
I personally rarely work my dog inside my workplace because it's familiar to me just like I wouldn't work my dog inside my home.
Again doing things for the sake of doing things makes no sense. So just figure out what you need and honestly what you want from a situation (compromise, making a point, ignoring it altogether) It's all your choice.
OK I rambled but I blame it on the caffeine.

## Post 22 by SilverLightning (I've now got the silver prolific poster award! wahoo!) on Monday, 10-Feb-2014 18:38:16

Kate, you're lucky you work in such an environment. It is not always so nice and neat.

## Post 23 by CrazyMusician (If I don't post to your topic, it's cuz I don't give a rip about it!) on Monday, 10-Feb-2014 18:43:53

meow, fair enough. Hard to find that balance between being a strong advocate and being a cow.
Cody, I have no illusions that I am lucky... VERY lucky! I have shown Jenny how to travel to offices she will be spending a great deal of time in (my boss's, our office manager) and shown her the break room... but people have been pretty good with her here. If I worked in an office with people coming in and out all the time, i think things would be different, especially how persnickity she can get in new situations and new places (i.e. new job)
Kate

## Post 24 by forereel (Just posting.) on Monday, 10-Feb-2014 21:19:21

I personally would really use the diplomatic approach in your work setting. It isn't like you aren't using your dog fully, but you are making an effort to make everyone comfortable just like they'd do for you I'll bet.
You don't use your dog at home, and this is just like being at home kind of.
I like the way you described it.

## Post 25 by Nicky (And I aprove this message.) on Tuesday, 11-Feb-2014 15:57:44

At work i keep my dog on tye down behind my counter. I do not take her with me to the bathrrom but the bathroom is right around the corner. I do not take her with me while I am running around for work doing things restocking stuff and such. I have always been good about getting around with out a cane or dog. But I do take her if I am going to another floor to unjam a drink machine. At my place I feel ok for me to do this.
I have worked in a place before that even though I knew the place, there was always stuff on the floor for you to trip over. Just boxes of things. Sometimes there would be wet floor signs and what nots. I say if it makes you feel better to take your dog for what ever you reasons might be, then do it. That is your choice. The bathroom might not be next door nor the snack place. Who knows what could get between you and there. Not all vathrooms are small and tight. Mine is a bit on the small side but there is enough room for me to throw my dog in the mix if i feel like doing so. And I do at times take her in with me but usually because i already had her in hand.
Also. Not all people are good with getting around as well as the next person and find having there dog helps a lot. You walk all around your house but you don't always venture every part of work and who knows...
As for people being scared of my dog. I try to be respectful and keep my dog close but if they are copping up an attitude about it then I just might have to say something. And if I do, it would be something like,
Oh boy! I bet your getting hungry aren't you. You didn't eat your breakfast this morning.
I have had some lady act verry stupid and you can tell she was just acting dumb and wasn't really scared. she acted more like she was angry I got on the elevator with her. I can be pritty honest and in ways that might be rude to those who aren't use to it. But for the most part i try to understand, not every one likes dogs but doesn't mean you have to be a bitch to me for me having my bitch. I can only handle two of us at a time.

## Post 26 by Shepherdwolf (I've now got the bronze prolific poster award! now going for the silver award!) on Thursday, 13-Feb-2014 9:03:25

Just a few things here:
1. If you take your dog's gear off when you get to the end of your travel (when you get to work, for instance), then putting it back on and then maybe taking it off yet again for a very short trip would be a pain in the neck, and the sort of thing I'm talking about when I say that people don't want to bother. I know many guide dog users who, once the dog has reached wherever it's going, take the harness off and tell the dog to lie down or whatnot. I don't know how proper this is, but I can safely say that more handlers than not in my own personal experience have exhibited this trait.
2. If you have a dog, you should also have a cane handy in case the dog can't work for some reason. In such an instance, even with floor clutter, it might be quicker to use the cane to go down the hall for a minute or two than it would be to re-gear the dog, and thus preferable for some.
3. This basis of not leaving the dog in harness all day at work provided the basis for my comparison about what the dog will do if left alone.
Kate, I'm glad a compromise was worked out so that the interaction between the frightened coworker and Jenny was minimized as much as is reasonable.

## Post 27 by forereel (Just posting.) on Thursday, 13-Feb-2014 14:26:50

I missed the compromise . She hasn't said?

## Post 28 by Nicky (And I aprove this message.) on Friday, 14-Feb-2014 8:22:32

What happened was the lady moved to a new desk. That was the compermise....

## Post 29 by forereel (Just posting.) on Friday, 14-Feb-2014 15:39:00

But she met her in the bathroom? What if that happens again? Lol

## Post 30 by CrazyMusician (If I don't post to your topic, it's cuz I don't give a rip about it!) on Friday, 14-Feb-2014 15:43:29

XShe asked me herself not to bring Jenny into the bathroom. I don't have a problem with that; it's a very small bathroom anyway.
Kate

## Post 31 by UniqueOne (I'll have the last word, thank you!) on Friday, 14-Feb-2014 23:20:09

I think when I get my dog I'll leave the harnis on it all day until we get back home. That seems kinda dumb to go to work, take it off, put it back on in order to maybe go somewhere, take it off...etc. etc. I would think leaving it on until a person gets home would be more easy.
These are just my thoughts. I'm glad everything has worked out and everyone is happy in this situation!

## Post 32 by BryanP22 (Novice theriminist) on Friday, 14-Feb-2014 23:37:51

I agree with you there.If I ever did get a guide dog I think I'd leave the harness for the entire duration that we were away from home.

## Post 33 by Nicky (And I aprove this message.) on Friday, 14-Feb-2014 23:48:44

I take my dogs harness off because I want her to be comfertable while she is sleeping all day. I would only take her with me once or twice the whole day to the bathroom if I took her and that takes no time to snap her harness on. So for her comfert, i take it off.

## Post 34 by CrazyMusician (If I don't post to your topic, it's cuz I don't give a rip about it!) on Saturday, 15-Feb-2014 8:13:03

Yeah, I agree with nicky. The thing is that most dogs will understand very quickly based on your behavior that they need to be on THEIR best behavior, even though they're technically not working.
Kate

## Post 35 by forereel (Just posting.) on Saturday, 15-Feb-2014 13:53:07

Good. We don't want that lady peeing on herself, now do we? Smile.
You have chosen the diplomatic approach. I love that.
I totally understand we are blind, and all that, but we also need to be diplomatic and flexible just like we expect sighted people to be sometimes.

## Post 36 by rdfreak (THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE-BLUE KANGA-KICKIN AUSIE) on Monday, 17-Feb-2014 21:35:36

wow, welcome to my world.
Increasing amount of new people (Muslims and oother) coming to my work place are scared of my dog. The majority who love her, can't understand this. It's hard when I'm told to step out of the lift before I even walk into it because someone wants to step out first; no no; not going to do that.
I've also had people scream when they've opened the door and seen my dog in the toilets. Our cubicals are too small to have them in with us.
Now everyone who starts with the company are told that there is a guide dog here; not essential by any means but courteous all the same as far as they're concerned.

## Post 37 by rdfreak (THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE-BLUE KANGA-KICKIN AUSIE) on Monday, 17-Feb-2014 21:36:05

other even

## Post 38 by forereel (Just posting.) on Monday, 17-Feb-2014 21:43:35

Well, the lift is public, so that is hard to be diplomatic.
Made me laugh about people opening the door when you are already inside the bathroom and screaming.
If you can't help them, you just can't.

## Post 39 by Nicky (And I aprove this message.) on Monday, 17-Feb-2014 23:47:51

rdfreak
that sounds horible. I have some people at work from India but they haven't seemed upset or scared of my dog. I have though, a lot of black ladies who gets very upset and scared. They usually seem honestly startled if they walk in the elevater and see my dog. They just choose to wait for the next one and don't make a seen.
I have though had a lady who got very angry because I got on the elevator when it came to my floor and she practically hugged the wall and was going on and on about how she was scared of dogs. But she didn't sound scared, she sounded pist off I got on with my dog. I told her like I have a few others, that it was ok, she is trained and doesn't bite. I was trying to be nice. She went on to say with a nasty attitude that my dog better not or there would be some problems. Without thinking I said, you'll have problems. Her horible attitude was getting to me. She was being very rude and hateful with her tone. So then she got really pist and said,
What you say???
I then replied, There's not going to be any problem.
The next day, she came in my shop and tried to get in to an arguement over some silly thing and started to yell at me that I would have some problems. I just walked away and left her on her own in the front of my shop. She didn't like i wouldn't stick around to listen to her yell. LOL! I don't have the time to baby sit and talk with fools at work. So i don't deal with it...

## Post 40 by faithfulwolf (Veteran Zoner) on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2014 13:24:53

Being afraid of, or thinking of my dog as unclean is the same as being afraid of or thinking of me as unclean. I don't tolerate it. My dog belongs where I am. It's not fare of someone to ask you to leave somewhere, even a bathroom because of your dog. The dog is a part of you and deserves the same respect as you. Don't let people make you feel bad because of their fears. Your dog is your friend, your eyes and your partner. Regardless of cultural differences, it is personally disrespectful to call someone's service animal unclean. It's like being afraid of them for being from a different country or culture than you.

## Post 41 by CrazyMusician (If I don't post to your topic, it's cuz I don't give a rip about it!) on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2014 13:37:56

While I understand in principle what you mean, Faithfulwolf, I also do understand that people have a legitimate fear of dogs. My coworker, who I hoenstly think is legimiately afraid, has been nothing less than respectful. All she has asked is that I not take Jenny into the bathroom. NOTE: Bathroom is a two-stall toilet, very cramped without a dog anyway, so I probably would have made that concession on my own anyway.
The other thing that keeps me from judging her too harshly is that every single time we talk, she asks how I am and how things are going with Jenny. Someone who thinks the dog is dirty wouldn't care about things like that.
Kate

## Post 42 by faithfulwolf (Veteran Zoner) on Tuesday, 18-Feb-2014 19:48:34

It's true enough that small bathrooms and dogs are not fun anyways. And at least she asks how you and Jenny are doing, meaning that she recognizes Jenny's importance to you. As long as you don't feel disrespected, Kate, then you do what works for you. Perhaps my veiews are a little strange. Your co-worker, from what you are saying doesn't seem disrespectful in her fear as so many are.
I've had people tell me they are afraid my dog will bite them, because they've been bitten by a dog, and I don't take that as badly as I do when someone doesn't like her because they think she's dirty or something. I understand that in some parts of the world, there are packs of wild dogs that have been known to bite and that is why some people fear a dog when they see one. Did she have a bad experience with a dog?
The other person, the one on your goalball team seems much more disrespectful, based on what you've said.

## Post 43 by forereel (Just posting.) on Wednesday, 19-Feb-2014 2:38:53

BeautifulKate.
In a work situation, I just believe in diplomacy. That way we all can enjoy our day, and have a good working team. She's trying, you are trying, and that works for me.

## Post 44 by Dolce Eleganza (I'll have the last word, thank you!) on Wednesday, 19-Feb-2014 4:55:29

awww, it'll take time. she's trying

## Post 45 by vh (This site is so "educational") on Wednesday, 19-Feb-2014 23:42:45

It isn't just packs of wild dogs in other countries that bite!
A dog bit me when I was in my teens for no real offense on my part. (The dog was stressed by a large number of strange people around and I unfortunately was the recipient of his fear and stress. Actually, it turned out the dog bit someone before me but we didn't know it until the same dog bit a third person a few years later.
Don't assume people don't have good reason for their fears and also keep in mind that fears aren't always rational.
I didn't have any fear of dogs before the bite, but certainly developed some after. I have never felt uncomfortable around service dogs, though.

## Post 46 by LeoGuardian (You mean there is something outside of this room with my computer in it?) on Thursday, 20-Feb-2014 12:43:33

Agreed with VH. I got chased by a dog as a kid.
I am totally unconcerned if the dog has its owner with it, even if the dog barks. If you can hear int the owner's voice that they are handling it then I am fine. But a tied up animal outside a shop here in Portland I will go out of my way to avoid. I know Portlanders love their doggie-poohs to death but I more respect wolvenkind at a distance, especially wolvenkind who is unattended. There isn't any excuse for someone to remain upset though if you are with the animal.
The black thing I have heard of, blacks being afraid of whites' dogs. In particular older blacks who were in racially oppressed areas where someone sicced their dog on the blacks. I have not met such a black person though, even in Florida where I knew quite a few older blacks there.
But you know what, I'm gonna sound unpopular: When I went to Japan, I took my shoes off in every building where it was appropriate and did any number of other things. If dogs are so evil and dirty to some people, maybe they should consider staying put or emigrate somewhere else where dogs aren't ever allowed indoors.
The problem with some kinds of diplomacy is that the squeaky wheel gets what they want and the one rolling over and playing dead gets trampled. I played that way for years in the name of diplomacy and got stomped for my efforts. I'm not saying be an asshole, but c'mon there's no excuse for some of this stuff people are doing to you guys. At least the ones I've seen, guide dogs are with their owner and don't display the characteristics that frighten those of us who don't like strange dogs. If you're really afraid of being bitten or chased, you're afraid of dogs who are tied up outside or wandering by themselves, not some harnessed up animal sitting right with its owner.
Diplomacy indicates some kind of even trade. people demanding to restrict the basic personal autonomy rights of others are nbot offering anything in exchange most times, and they are decidedly unnatural. That's not a disability thing, that is a human thing. I doubt yu even would see lower anthropoid apes doing this to each other.

## Post 47 by forereel (Just posting.) on Thursday, 20-Feb-2014 18:30:43

Never heard of blacks as a race being afraid of dogs. Most blacks that had dogs had mean ones, so we learned that dogs bite. When they bite, you slap em with a big old stick.
All dogs are owned by humans unless wild, and I've seen these too. These you shoot if they are dangerous. End of problem.
I love dogs, but well managed ones. The rest, I'm careful around, because these teeth hurt, and than I've got to go find a big stick, and well.

## Post 48 by Nicky (And I aprove this message.) on Friday, 21-Feb-2014 5:49:38

Whoever it may be, if someone seems nervice or scared of my dog. I do pull my dog a bit closer and try to give them a bit of space, as long as they aren't acting nutts, like screamming, jumping up and down, or throwing themselves away from us as if my dog tried to snap at them. I try to respect them and be kind because I don't know why they might be scared. They could have been atacked, usually if the person sticks around long enough, then end up leaving, talking about how good my dog is.
I would not though, leave my dog behind. Sorry! If I leave my dog behind for any reason, it won't be that someone demanded me to because they were scared. I can show my respect to that person by keeping my dog a bit closer and taking it in the stall with me, wich is possible to do. If your in a small stall, leave the dog outside and keep hold of the leash, then have it craw under the door. or make it go in and shove it between the seet and the wall until you get in to and then squeez yourselves about until your the one who gets to use the toilet and not your dog.
I feel like this would be like someone trying to get you not to take your dog in a store or other places.
Now there has been a time when I was a bit mean to someone who was scared of my and my room mates dogs.
One of my room mates dad came over and braut his girl friend with him, the girl friend kept make all these ooo! oh! woo! sounds and was kind of acting a bit silly and I joked with her saying that they haven't had their food yet today and don't get to close. She seemed like a nice lady and could tell i was joking, she did loosen up and pet them by the time she left. That was something i would not do to people at work or someone I didn't know or what not.
I did have a cab driver come and get me and got upset when he saw my dog and said they never told him I had a dog with me and he was scared of them. I He said that since he was there he would go ahead and get me, LOL! I just went along with it and made it seem like the office was horable for not informing him and kept my dogs head in my lap. He stayed pritty calm. I am glad he ddin't cause a seen like how I have heard some drivers to do.

## Post 49 by CrazyMusician (If I don't post to your topic, it's cuz I don't give a rip about it!) on Friday, 21-Feb-2014 10:30:56

Nicky,
While for the most part I agree wholeheartedly not to leave your dog because of someone's fear/preference/demand, I think it ultimately comes down to the type of work environment you work in. An office like mine, I can zip over to the bathroom and no one sees my dog; she just sleeps. It honestly sounded like a very reasonable request and one that I have no problem honoring. If that's the only thing she asks of me, personally, than I am happy to oblige. If she told me not to bring her anywhere else, it would be a different story. We take lunch breaks at different times, so I take Jenny with me into the break room; half the time if she does step in for coffee she doesn't know Jenn's even there... that's not possible in a tiny 2-stall bathroom with barely enough room for two people to move around in without stepping on each other.
Kate

## Post 50 by Dolce Eleganza (I'll have the last word, thank you!) on Friday, 21-Feb-2014 12:20:11

See VH, at least you know why you are afraid of dogs, I don't think your fear is irrational. You know you were bitten by a dog, yet you are not uncomfortable around service dogs. I do agree, there are people who's fears are irrational. But then you also have the other side of the spectrum, people who never wish to overcome their fear, and on top of that try to have others accommodate them. And a way they get you to do that is by being agressive, and I don't think that's fair. Dog one is not dog 2, a loose dog, a stray dog, a dog off leash, is not the same as a service dog. But even so, service dogs and have some behavior issues, and they can also be unpredictable while under a lot of stress. I'm not saying to be inconsiderate of people like those I described, but maybe with a little tact one can find a way to bring their dog around the person that's afraid, and if you don't have to have the dog in the little bathrooms there's no need to just have this person notice it.

## Post 51 by Nicky (And I aprove this message.) on Friday, 21-Feb-2014 15:22:37

Kate. I didn't say you must do what I choose to do. I also have said I too, leave my dog behind when I go to the bathroom but my reasonings are not because someone else makes me.
Dolce Eleganza
i pritty much agree with everything you said except I don't think that people have too overcome their fears. If they do, it helps, if they don't, well then, it hurts them in the long run. But sometimes fears are hard to over come. If you have a fear then you learn to live with it if your not going to change it. Someone with that fear can't expect us all to lock our dogs away so they don't have to handle their fears. Like I said, I would show my respect by keeping my dog closer to me so she doesn't sniff them and so on, but they too have to give some by not demanding me to give up my dog and make me feel as if I am personally the fault of their problems in the first place.
I can not stand being on an elevator or in the bathroom with someone who is on the phone, and yes, I get that all the time. I am not going to make them hang up so I feel more at ease . I will just ketch the next elevator or come back later to the bathroom if they are in their first. I don't feel as if I need to make everyone bend to me to make me the complete happy one. You got to give and take and i am not going to give my dog up because anyone asks to. I feel so strongly about this because if you give in to not taking your dog to the bathroom, how much longer until they try to keep you from bringing the dog to work at all? This is what happened to the last lady who worked my job. Some people hated her having her dog so she put it in the back where the people couldn't see it. Then she finally gave in and just left her dog home every day. She didn't work her dog hardly ever since she didn't take it to work with her. This all because they kept pushing until they got what they wanted. They tried that with me and I told the building management that if my dog goes, i do to. If I go, ain't no one gonna be happy because the place would be shut down. No joke. LOL! Its a small place and no one wants it, I took it because I don't want the responcibility of the next level up.
I have had a church I went to where someone didn't want me to take my dog in their car to go to a, get-together for a fall activity. I chose not to go because they made such a fus about me not taking my dog. I felt as if, and I have been told by others who has had this happen, that, if you give in that time, they will start to pressure you keep it at home more often because, if you can do that small bit without your dog well then, why not everything else too? Take an inch, then want a mile.
I did on the following Christmas, chose to leave my dog at home when going to a ladies house for a womens Christmas party. I chose to because it was going to be tight, crouded, busy and I didn't think my dog would have much fun. The lady that owned the house is a clean freak and would rather me not take my dog I am not sure what she would have done if I showen up with my dog... Her sister drove me so I figured she would have said something when she picked me up if it would have been an issue but... like i said... I made that choice, it wasn't forced a pond me in a gilt trip or something.

## Post 52 by Nicky (And I aprove this message.) on Friday, 21-Feb-2014 15:25:22

Dolce Eleganza
i want to say I miss red your post. I thought you said that people who was afraid should get over it or something like that. i wanted to say I miss red that. sorry.

## Post 53 by forereel (Just posting.) on Friday, 21-Feb-2014 16:52:42

Well, nicky, in a work place, it should be compermise on both ends, and this is what is happening in Kate's situation. That is beautiful.
In your work place, that is what should have been done as well.
Now, in a private home, if I didn't want dogs, and I mean service, or whatever dogs, you'd have to not visit me with your dog, or just not visit my home.
Public places, I'm all for standing in your rights as I've stated before.
Phones don't bite by the way. Smile.

## Post 54 by Sword of Sapphire (Whether you agree with my opinion or not, you're still gonna read it!) on Friday, 21-Feb-2014 22:51:17

Just a side note, all fears are irrational. Yes, they are all explainable, but it is not rational to be afraid of something that will rarely hurt or harm you, if at all.
Now, I agree that the compromise in Kate's situation is very reasonable. Kate Doesn't mind zipping to the bathroom without her dog and returning to her cubicle. I personally might not do the same, but it's not me, it's Kate, and she's comfortable ducking into the restroom without her dog.
If it were me, I would wait outside if I knew the chick was already in there. But the chances of crossing that woman's path in the bathroom would be rare, and if I was already in there with my dog, she would have to just deal.
The thing with a lot of black people being fearful toward or disliking dogs is quiet common. Nicky brought this up to me when we first got our dogs and I hadn't noticed it. Only with my hairdresser, but I lived in a primarily white suburb at the time. When I returned to the city and started riding public transportation, I totally saw it. A lot of black people commenting that they don't like dogs, or I'm stayin' away from that dog, or their children acting fearfully. And it's not just whites' dogs because I'm black with a big ass golden.

## Post 55 by HauntedReverie (doing the bad mango) on Monday, 24-Feb-2014 21:50:17

If someone is being respectful of me, I have no issue pulling my dog closer to me, or pausing to let you walk by. I have no problem leaving her in Kate's situation if I don't need her with me, and if I do need her with me in a cramped space, as long as you're being respectful of my space, I will do my best to keep my dog away from you. If someone had a pet wasp on a string in a tiny space with me, I'd be having a massive internal freakout and would have a hard time remaining calm and rational, so I try to empathize.
A couple years ago, some friends and I were walking down a sidewalk. One friend had a guide dog. A woman started to come out of a shop door next to us, gave a little gasp and start of fear, and backed quickly inside. Politely, she said, "Oh, I'm scared of dogs. I'm gonna let you go on past, OK?" I threw her a smile and an off the cuff "we're sorry", just meaning that I was sorry to have startled her. The guide dog friend bluntly and loudly replied, "No we're not."
I have witnessed second hand experience of people screaming and running away like morons. Rather than really finding it offensive to my person, I just roll my eyes and go on about my life.
Living back in North Carolina, I did notice that a lot of black people were scared or nervous about the dog, and would ask out loud if it was going to bite, so that's my contribution to that part of the thread.

## Post 56 by CrazyMusician (If I don't post to your topic, it's cuz I don't give a rip about it!) on Tuesday, 11-Mar-2014 11:30:38

LOL Cala, I guess in Canada I don't get that kind of reaction... more the one of "Oh, there's a dog there? I didn't see it!"

## Post 57 by forereel (Just posting.) on Tuesday, 11-Mar-2014 14:56:25

Most black people view dogs as protection and many keep dogs that are tought to attack, or fight. So that would be the reason.
Also the police use them against poorer people often due to exactly this, the ingrained fear. The fear isn't born, it is learned.

## Post 58 by loves animals (This site is so "educational") on Saturday, 12-Apr-2014 8:15:57

but not only that they could of had a bad experience with a dog and that could explain the fear but we are not to know so maybe next time you could ask them politely why they have a fear to dogs.